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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: Aow2-(beta/demo) vs Homm4
Thread: Aow2-(beta/demo) vs Homm4
phYscHo
phYscHo


Known Hero
[This space For Rent]
posted April 23, 2002 04:56 PM

Aow2-(beta/demo) vs Homm4

Ok, now that i have tried both games (well only the latest release of aow2) i have come to my conclusion for those of you that care
Overall My choice is currently Homm4 (although this will be up for review once the full version of aow2 is out)

As being a player of aow1 for quite some time, aow2 seemed to me to be a perfect sequal, with the right kinda advancements new balance of idea's and great improved engine, It looks less cartoony/more fantasy then Homm4, however i beleive Homm4's graphics are to its advantage

Homm4 however has a pretty good balance with a enjoyable range of things to do, that is pleasing to the eye, with the greatest music soundtrack that is rivaled only by diablo 2's soundtrack (in my mind that is the perfect mood setting music regardless). Sorry this is early in the morning for me so my facts might be written badly, But to me Homm still seems to just beat out aow2 by a thin margin
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I can Imagine a world without hate, a world that lives in total peace and harmony, then i can imagine us attacking them, cos the fools wouldn't expect it

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Pentalog
Pentalog

Tavern Dweller
posted April 23, 2002 08:12 PM

I played AOW2 for the first time yesterday for a couple of hours.  To be honest I found the user inteface somewhat clumsy as compared against HOMM4.  Perhaps, I am just used to the HOMM interface (I've been playing since King's Quest) and I've never played AOW before, but as a software designer, I felt like it was designed by developers, not interface specialists.  

Other than that, it looks like a fairly neat, yet deep, game.  I am not able to compare it to HOMM4 yet, as I haven't put the time in to it that it deserves.

Pent
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a100pieces
a100pieces


Adventuring Hero
posted April 23, 2002 08:18 PM

Lol, I found the interface to AoW2 much better, and many people will tell you that the HoMM 3/4 interface is very bad, and they could learn a lot from reading about how to make a GUI in heroes.  Perhaps it's just discomfort, but to say HoMM3 interface is a good example of an interface is very wrong.  There are plenty of bad mistakes in the HoMM3 interface.

Either way, after playing AoW2 for a while, I liked the interface a lot more.  At first I didn't know what anything did, but that is normal, one who never looked at HoMM ever, and then tried to play it would feel the same way.
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Pentalog
Pentalog

Tavern Dweller
posted April 23, 2002 08:32 PM

I suppose you're right, but as I said, I might just be used to the HOMM interface...

I'm having a difficult time trying to get the hang of how cash works...

It looks like at the bottom of the screen I might have

130+45

which to me means that I have 130 gold and 45 has been added that turn, but the very next turn I have 23+19.  Where did all my cash go?  I know I didn't explicitly buy a hero or something, but is it from hiring new troops?  Since I only had two towns, I can't imagine that my cash would have gone down that much.

Also, why does the construction of buildings get put on hold?  What causes that?

Thanks

Pent
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Halfling
Halfling

Tavern Dweller
posted April 23, 2002 08:39 PM

As far as I remebered from AoW 1 your units cost cash, and so does maintaining them. If you build like three units at one time, both decrease quite a lot.
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              Why does it always rain on me?

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a100pieces
a100pieces


Adventuring Hero
posted April 23, 2002 08:41 PM

Yes, 130+45 means you have 130 gold now, and your income at the end of the turn will be 45 gold.

The reason you might have 20 gold on the following turn is one of many, maybe you hired a hero, maybe you hurried a building, or maybe you were building a building that took another 160 gold to finish.

I am not sure (though I imiagine it's explained in the instructions) but buildings might not be paid for all at once.  

On the same note, building can go on hold for a few reasons as well.  Not enough money is one, disorder (if the town is revolting, they won't build), and probably a few others I'm not aware of.

AoW2 definetly has a lot more things to pick up and learn, and to judge it by just trying a few hours and deciding it's not like heroes so it sucks is a bad way to do things.  I still am not sure how everything works in the game myself.

Also note that the beta demo (as said a few times in the demo itself) is not representative of the final game, the AI is not done, and other bugs are present.  It's just a beta.  I'm sure there will be a normal demo released once the final game comes out, to get a better experience.

(I'm just saying anyone playing it obviously needs to give it a fair chance, not saying you are doing that)
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brody
brody


Known Hero
Pathetic Loser
posted April 23, 2002 11:02 PM

AOW 1 is the same, if you have a building in a queue and it suddenly gets started, you lose gold without really realizing that you're losing gold... same with buildings put on hold.  Kinda confusing, but you get used to it.
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Jenova
Jenova


Famous Hero
posted April 24, 2002 09:33 AM
Edited By: Jenova on 25 Apr 2002

In my opinion, HOMM4 is a better game than AOW2 demo, but AOW2 full version will be better than HOMM4 assuming the devs don't screw it up.

AOW2 however has a lot more strategic elements (I'm not saying HOMM4 isn't strategic btw) in its rules, and will therefore be less newbie friendly however. The first time gamer might not understand AOW that easily.

From what I've seen of the demo however, the game is far from complete.

AOW2 has a better collection of spells though. The summons are permanent as long as you are within your domain. And the buffs are great. Resurgence gives you the revival ability when you die. And there are overland spells such as Force of Life (I forget the actual spell name) which heals your units every turn, and ones that create a magic forest on the map which hurts anyone caught in it or passing thru.

And you can anger the gods depending on what you do, who will intervene and punish you for it. For example see here:
http://aow2.godgames.com/screens/screenshot2.jpg

There are diplomacy elements in the AOW series. You (the player) are a Wizard (not a hero). When you enter the territory of other wizards there will be an introduction, and you can talk to them when you need to. The way the see you and their level of respect depends whether your interests coincide with theirs, and racial differences etc.. You can improve your relationship with them by offering tributes, teaching or exchanging spells with them, and learning skills or doing deeds that suit their interests. You can form a pact with them if you have good relations to them. You can also piss them off by taking their towns or attacking their armies.

Even the unit races have their own diplomatic agenda (orcs, goblins, draconians etc typically hate halflings, elves, humans). If an independant town is of a race friendly to yours, they won't be hostile and will instead offer to join you for a fee (you can also attack them, but that has effects on diplomacy as well). But if they are a race at war with yours feel free to attack. But you have to station troops in their town or migrate to it or else their town's dwellers will revolt against you and you will lose ownership. Your own forces can even rebel against you.. I remember in AOW1, playing as Frostlings I led a huge army of Orcs (with an Orc hero) and I captured an orcish territory from another player, and then my own orcish army abandonned me and went on a rampage in my own territories! oops.

Heroes can arrive at your town and offer their services to you. Hero development by the way is really good in AOW. So many options. And you won't just get any hero, you will get one of an appropriate race. Don't expect an Orc hero to show up at your elven town. Humans and dwarves are fine though. You can also summon a hero to you. If you reject them, they'll just walk off, and remain neutral.

The strategic differences are too many to list. Such as ranged units missing, spells missing, casting power (limits to how much you can cast each turn), basically not quite as simplified as HOMM.

Units that desert you don't disappear, they become neutral (independent) and fight for their own cause.. even attacking you if need be.

You can build settlers who can create their own towns too.

HOMM4 looks very sparkly and lively, brimming with many beautiful looking objects and locales (and the interface is very fancy too though it doesn't necessarily function better) and in some ways looks better than AOW2, but AOW2 runs a lot smoother, and the battlefields and spell effects look nicer in AOW2. I'd say the graphics are about tied.

The music of both is also excellent, AOW has a good theme, but HOMM has the operas.

Every unit can gain levels in the game and they become more powerful, learning new skills.

And if all this sounds suprisingly like MOM, you're dead right. But who am I to complain?
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a100pieces
a100pieces


Adventuring Hero
posted April 24, 2002 04:20 PM

I'm also hoping that Triumph can pull together this game and fix the balance issues/bugs, but not counting on it.  A $30 price is tempting tho.  After all, I paid $40 for HoMM4 and played it about as much of the free demo so far, so I suppose I should pre-order AoW2.  
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phYscHo
phYscHo


Known Hero
[This space For Rent]
posted April 24, 2002 08:06 PM

Definatly the full version hopefully will have much more to offer, and if its as good as it seems its going to be, im sure to lose just as many hours of sleep over aow2 as homm4,
aswell the compitition will make things very interesting for the developers should tehy both decide to do a sequal (even tho these games just came out, i cant wait for the next one with better everything!)
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I can Imagine a world without hate, a world that lives in total peace and harmony, then i can imagine us attacking them, cos the fools wouldn't expect it

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brody
brody


Known Hero
Pathetic Loser
posted April 24, 2002 08:25 PM

The greatest thing about AOW2 is it ISN'T heroes 4.  It's a whole different beast.  I will probably get it eventually, but not until I've at least finished the H4 campaigns... and I expect to have fun with both games.  Too much fun, in fact

Two things, though... First, Jenova, you said "You can build settlers who can create their own towns too."  IS THIS TRUE??!?!?  That was one thing that made AOW1 not a good MOM clone, was that you couldn't build towns!  If you can now, that will ROCK.  We'll finally have a real MOM clone to look at.

Second... I gotta go get me that demo.  
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DonGio
DonGio


Promising
Famous Hero
of Clear Water Mountain Clan
posted April 24, 2002 11:54 PM

AoW2 sounds really good from what you're saying. I just love the multi-army battles. The coolest is when you get three or more different factions in one battle! That rocks! And I really like that they've added to the diplomatic element of the game. They've gone the other way around with HOMMIV (or rather, they just didn't change it from the previous games), but I really enjoy things like making the orcs like me when I'm elven and that sort of thing.

Also, I thought the hero development was very good already in AoW1. I used to love giving my heroes wall climbing and stealth and all kinds of funny crap. In AoW, different heroes really were different, and there were few "total" strategies, which worked no matter what.

And I never had any peeves with the HOMMIII interface, the HOMMIV was much harder to understand intuitively, for me anyway...
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There are 10 types of people: Those who read binary, and those who don't.

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Jenova
Jenova


Famous Hero
posted April 25, 2002 10:08 AM

Yep, AOW2 is basically MOM 'enhanced'. Seriously, the similarities are so numerous I'm surprised I haven't heard people yell 'lawsuit!' yet. But it does make its own refinements too.

You could build Settlers to create outposts in MOM, and they added that feature into AOW2. But I'm not sure if it takes population out of your main town to build the settlers (it did in MOM).

Diplomacy is even better. Not just between wizards (players) but also between the races. And you're not tied to a certain race either.

HOMM4's interface definately looks beautiful, colorful and artistic, but at first that actually serves to confuse some. It wasn't as necessary to make it look that great, and if I was designing it, I'd definately shrink it smaller. Have you seen how much it fills up at 800x600? Almost half your screen (and this is with a lot of functions missing too). But it looks great so I don't mind it. AOW2's interface doesn't look as good, but I can use it. What I like is the message system. Important messages will be recorded for you to review so you never miss a thing.

The gods will occasionally give you a quest to do, with a certain time limit, and it will affect diplomacy, whether you do it or fail. Your wizard can attain certain qualities (for example Peacekeeping) which affect the way others see you also. A bit of role playing is welcome.

Overall, as long as the final product has no AI issues and minimal bugs, the game should be received easily as well as AOW1 was.

There are mirrors for the demo to download here if you don't want to wait thru fileplanet:

http://aow.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=ct&f=24,1,0,60
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brody
brody


Known Hero
Pathetic Loser
posted April 25, 2002 11:52 AM

Very Worrisome...

If this game ever has a random map generator, it may put a complete stop to my Heroes 4 gaming (well, temporarily... I always come back to heroes eventually )

The demo is very impressive.  Much more like MOM than AOW was.  AOW was like an attempt at MOM 2 that failed (good game, but I expected too much).  This one looks a LOT like a MOM 2 that could very well succeed.  And my "suggestion" about having a Civ3-like diplomacy if MOM 2 were ever created - well, it's there.  I guess GOD was a step ahead of me on that one.  You put items on the table (money, mana, spells, structures, diplomatic suggestions, etc) and ask for items in return.  Very deep diplomacy.  No per-turn deals, but still, very good anyway.

Damn... and the preorder at just $30?  That's tough to beat.  Even after shipping (2 day air) it's $10 cheaper than Heroes 4.  These guys know what it takes to steal Heroes customers...

I see this as win-win for me... MOM was my favorite game of all time...  3DO will most certainly be scared ****less seeing this game.  It's got a demo (no H4 demo?  WTF?), and it's cheaper.  So either 3DO puts a lot of work into these patches, or we all slowly migrate to AOW2 and don't look at H5 unless it's superb.  Either way, the heroes series will likely get a lot more work put into it, and in the meantime (while waiting for patches and such) we will have MOM2.  Oh, I mean AOW2  (that's a compliment, not an insult.  Cloning MOM without truly cloning it is a very impressive achievement)
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Jenova
Jenova


Famous Hero
posted April 26, 2002 09:19 AM
Edited By: Jenova on 26 Apr 2002

Yeah, that's good to hear.. I hope it makes NWC outdo themselves with the HOMM4 expansion.

I just love the battlefield in the life node.. The effects are nice, yet easy on my computer.

$29.95 is a pretty modest price for the amount of hours of gaming I'll get from it, and you get some bonus CD with some extra scenarios and other stuff. Not too bad.

The trading between wizards is better than MOM's. I managed to learn all of Julia's good spells, just as long as I trade spells of equal value or better.

I tried offering Yaka everything I had, including declaring war on Julia and it moved him, but not enough to form an alliance with me.

Still though, I'd say the level of diplomacy is one of the best features of the game. MOM had it to a degree (I always raze those unrestful Klackon cities), but AOW goes much further.

In the full version, you can research abilities for your wizard in place of spells. These abilities boost your wizard's power, casting skill, research, mana, etc.. Too much stuff the beta is missing, the final version might even have more surprises.

One new change I don't like is that you can't mix spheres of magic anymore. There is a cosmos sphere which is a combination of every sphere, but it will take longer to get everything. Bring back the double spheres I say..

Have you checked out the Bone Dragons guarding magical artifacts? They are tough. Also, it seems the monsters that guard the map locations (such as nodes) are randomized each time you play.. The first time, the node I liberated was just guarded by some manticore like beast which I killed without sustaining losses (although a lot of my men were low on health). The next time I tried to take it, there was a rift lord and 3 rift spawns! I killed the spawns, but the rift lord made my entire army his b1tch.

And the other selling point is the beautiful artwork of the wizards, which you can find on other coverage sites. Just beautiful.



You can find other wizard pics here:
http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/anon.jpg
http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/arachna.jpg
http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/tempest.jpg
http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/nimue.jpg
http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/nekron.jpg
http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/mab.jpg
http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/yaka.jpg
http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/karissa.jpg
http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/marinus.jpg
http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/serena.jpg
http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/fangir.jpg

Graphics never make a game I know, but I just have to leave you with 3 other MUST SEE images here (which only IGN insiders normally would be able to see):

http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/ageofwonders2_041002_001.jpg
http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/ageofwonders2_041002_002.jpg
http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/ageofwonders2_041002_003.jpg

If you're a fan of MOM, there's just no excuse not to get this.
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brody
brody


Known Hero
Pathetic Loser
posted April 26, 2002 08:27 PM

Ugh... I played the demo some more and managed to level my heroes... I am very sad that they chose to go the way of HOMM with their hero advancements.  In AOW it was much more customizable... you gain 5 skill points per level, and spend them either on attack/def/magic res/hp, or on skills.  Many skills cost 10+ points, so you'd have to level 2 or 3 times to get really good stuff.

Now you just choose one of three bonuses.  I don't like it at all.  If I want advancement like HOMM, I'll play HOMM!  Oh well, I imagine they changed it because the old system confused too many people...

And Jenova, did you say they don't let you mix spheres of magic?  That's really annoying... I liked having full Life, but a little bit of Nature thrown in as well.  That'll be annoying... but I suppose being able to trade spells will make that usable anyway.  But in MOM you got special bonuses when you had X books of one magic sphere (cheaper research, lowered maint. costs, etc).  I was hoping they'd throw something like that into AOW2.

Still, $30 is too good to pass up.  Whether I see the changes as good or not doesn't much matter, because the game seems good so far.  And the editor is supposed to let you edit items, heroes, etc.  That will be sweet!
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Jenova
Jenova


Famous Hero
posted April 27, 2002 06:17 AM
Edited By: Jenova on 27 Apr 2002

I think with the hero advancing they wanted you to follow a certain order so the better skills couldn't come in early if you saved up. And if you keep levelling, the choices seem to be different, or more advanced versions. I got bard skills as one of the options in place of the magic option.

Anyway, I don't know what to think about that. I preferred the original as well.

As for the spheres, yeah that is a major step backwards. The cosmos sphere is one that has every spell from every sphere though, but it will take ages to advance.
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pepeviejo
pepeviejo


Adventuring Hero
Protecting sheep + baby ducks
posted June 07, 2002 12:48 PM

Heroes 4 is winning.

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Darion
Darion


Promising
Famous Hero
posted June 07, 2002 09:55 PM

AOW2 isn't even out yet and it is still strong. This is only comments from the beta!


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Samwise_Gamgee
Samwise_Gamgee


Hired Hero
posted September 24, 2004 11:07 PM

Quote:
As far as I remebered from AoW 1 your units cost cash, and so does maintaining them. If you build like three units at one time, both decrease quite a lot.

I agree!
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Age 13, and The Lord of the Rings master.

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