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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Magic rotation against heroes
Thread: Magic rotation against heroes
LakeQueen
LakeQueen


Hired Hero
posted May 17, 2018 12:12 PM

Magic rotation against heroes

I'm never sure which spell to use first against an enemy hero, especially high damage rush ones like Inferno and Sylvan. If I have destructive it's a simple decision but otherwise I feel like I'm just guessing.

Which blessing has highest priority? Which mass curse? What about summoning? Do I block them with barrier, put down the hive ASAP or conjure phoenix right away? Assuming I have light+summon or dark+summon, which of these should take priority?

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vulcancolak
vulcancolak


Known Hero
posted May 17, 2018 12:47 PM

If you are refering TotE, mass haste and mass slow have a huge advantage

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted May 17, 2018 01:10 PM

LakeQueen said:
I'm never sure which spell to use first against an enemy hero, especially high damage rush ones like Inferno and Sylvan. If I have destructive it's a simple decision but otherwise I feel like I'm just guessing.

Which blessing has highest priority? Which mass curse? What about summoning? Do I block them with barrier, put down the hive ASAP or conjure phoenix right away? Assuming I have light+summon or dark+summon, which of these should take priority?

That always depends on how immediate and powerful the effect is. Ie summons are less effective when your enemy has a full army but firetrap will prevent or seriously hurt an incoming walker. Cloning a big titan stack is also more risky than a starting puppet or frenzy because it won't act immediately and may be destroyed by enemy shooters or casters. Of course, a puppet is unsafe to use if your opponent(or a caster with cleansing) plays right after you and is likely to have light magic. Frenzy cannot be countered by cleansing(only magic immunity) but is tied to the frenzied unit's atb so your opponent may move certain units out of the way(or teleport the frenzied unit). As far as dark/light magic goes, mass spells are an obvious opener because you can get two of them in the time it takes to cast a single spell. The only concern is whether your opponent plays after you because certain spells can be overwritten by their opposite. Stoneskin and decay are an exception so they are safer. Also mass dark spells are safer than a single spell when against magic resistance. Even a 15% chance can be a deterrent because a resisted puppet in the first turn will hurt a lot.

Consider what has the best effect in the short run whether it minimizes the enemy dps or maximizes yours. Which enemy stack is currently the most threatening and whether your spell will halt its momentum. Whether you want to end the game quickly or drag it out(vs good destructive you'd prefer offensive buffs over stoneskin or damage debuffs). Whether your opponent can avoid your effect or bypass it in a creative way(teleportation, boosting the atb of a cleanser/purger, re-puppeting a lost unit, re-summoning a phoenix to banish the previous one etc).

Barrier and crystal totally depend on the current atb. They are great when used with the right timing but the enemy may have the option to ignore them or move/attack elsewhere. From there on it's a matter of experience.
____________
So you're saying.. the dead are rising from their graves?
Excellent! I need some target practice!

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Zaio-Baio
Zaio-Baio


Promising
Famous Hero
posted May 19, 2018 12:05 AM bonus applied by kiryu133 on 20 May 2018.

LakeQueen said:
I'm never sure which spell to use first against an enemy hero, especially high damage rush ones like Inferno and Sylvan. If I have destructive it's a simple decision but otherwise I feel like I'm just guessing.

Which blessing has highest priority? Which mass curse? What about summoning? Do I block them with barrier, put down the hive ASAP or conjure phoenix right away? Assuming I have light+summon or dark+summon, which of these should take priority?

Summoning magic and destructive work mostly early-mid game. After that they are not worth it. There are plenty of artifacts that reduce spell dmg, arts that give resistance, perks like "resist fire" in light magic that hard counters armagedon strategies and so on. Any 2 pieces of the dwarven set give 40% magic proof against all types of spells. The longer the game takes the higher the chance that your opponent will get some counters for destructive magic. Lets not forget the magic immunity spell too.
Summoning magic is even worse, its worth it only with necro, wizards and big maybe with dungeon. Summoning magic offers a wide variety of spells that all become obsolete after week 4 unless you have some insane spell power. Some may say phoenix rush is good, but reality is that it loses terribly to warmachines + 3x balista + flamig arrows + expert luck.
As the game goes on both players armies keep growing. Yet the lvl of the heroes and their spell power doesnt follow the same principle. Eventually you will reach lvl 20-25 and a spell power value of about 20-30 and thats it. 30 sp phoenix has no chance against 20 upgraded cyclopses.
So summoning and destuctive magic are mainly used in rushes, on maps where final fight is week 2-3. Both magic schools offer good options for that period of the game. For instance its possible to have the "fire warriors" perk with academy and necro and summon 50+ fire elementals week 2, which is insanely strong.
Latagame is all about light and dark magic. Only exception is dwarves + armageddon , but it will work only once and the next game ur opponent will be prepared for it. Also vs good players may not work even once
The longer the game takes the stronger the mass buffs/debuffs become. In week 8 final fights mass haste with haven/sylvan/dwarves is stronger than 30 spell power  phoenix. Best mass spells from light magic are mass haste, mass righteous might and mass endurance. Mass cleansing is great vs dark magic, mass deflect missile is great vs ranged fire, divine strengh is good if your army has wide dmg range.
From dark magic - mass decay is a very good spell early game, it may win you the game. However it has the weakness that your opponent may spread his army and use 1st aid tent to dispel the curse.
Best dark mass spells for lategame are mass slow, mass confusion and mass suffering.
In light vs dark magic battles i favour the light side on rich maps. There are artifacts that give immunities to some of the best dark magic spells - slow, frenzy, blind. Also mass cleansing is a hard counter to vampirism and puppet master. You dispel them with advantage of 1/2 turn. It takes full turn to cast puppet master/vamp and only 1/2 turn to cast mass cleansing. Also dark spells can be resisted, while you cant resist your own buffs
Turn 1 mass haste + immune to slow boots + empathy is absolutely devastating vs dark users. Also full dwarven set casts mass endurance and mass deflect at the start of the game. The mastery lvl of the spells cast depends on you light magic mastery. On maps where both players can get dwarven set (best combat set) light magic is clearly better.
All that being said light magic power and value depend on your army power. If your army gets charged and killed turn 1 you wont be able to get much value out of the light magic. So it all depends. H5 is a very complex game and there are may strategies available.

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LakeQueen
LakeQueen


Hired Hero
posted May 24, 2018 08:48 PM
Edited by LakeQueen at 20:51, 24 May 2018.

Thanks! Those tips are definitely helpful.

I disagree however that summoning and destructive scale bad for *all* heroes. For destructive in particular there's dungeon (empowered + lucky + elemental chains), academy (motw + lucky), sylvan (imbue ballista + triple ballista + druid channel), fortress (lucky + mark of fire + ignite). Also there's the elemental damage boosting arties which are actually really strong. A 6-9k implosion deletes stacks even in ultra late game, and H5 isn't like H3 where you can have 5k skeletons.

Also summoning isn't just phoenix and elementals, the obstacles can be great for blocking enemy walkers/shooters or protecting friendly ones, also there's arcane armour and hive, and motw can spawn a second hive which literally makes an enemy creature never act, or a second barrier to completely shield the titans from melee.

My hardest decisions are when the inferno/sylvan have already done some serious damage with their horses and stuff, so mass endurance/slow/weakness/suffering will be less effective immediately. On the other hand they take half a turn to cast and will be great the longer the fight goes on. On the other hand blind/frenzy/puppet can give some immediate advantage. But they can also be resisted or dispelled and take a full turn. Vamp is good but not as good when I've already lost most of the dragons turn 1. It's a tough choice!

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Zaio-Baio
Zaio-Baio


Promising
Famous Hero
posted May 25, 2018 11:04 PM

I still play every now and then on gameranger. If you want we can play some multi games there.

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