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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Best rampart hero?
Thread: Best rampart hero? This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · «PREV
Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted August 22, 2020 08:21 PM
Edited by Phoenix4ever at 20:22, 22 Aug 2020.

The Logistics, Boots of Speed and Equestrian's Gloves were great and necessary nerfs.
I would put Logistics at 7/13/20 though. (Or 6.67/13.33/20.00)

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VMaiko
VMaiko


Known Hero
posted August 22, 2020 09:14 PM
Edited by VMaiko at 21:16, 22 Aug 2020.

Phoenix4ever said:
The Logistics, Boots of Speed and Equestrian's Gloves were great and necessary nerfs.
I would put Logistics at 7/13/20 though. (Or 6.67/13.33/20.00)


It was a rude nerf, especially if you plan to play on G maps. Kyrre became completely useless in HotA because of it. (Gunnar and Dessa too).
I'm not surprised there are people out there wanting to edit HotA, because understandably, HotA Crew is doing everything wrong.

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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted August 22, 2020 09:27 PM

Don't you see how completely unbalanced it was?, Logistics specialists were the best heroes in the game, they might still be.
Intellligence specialists could also get pretty insane.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted August 22, 2020 09:48 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 21:50, 22 Aug 2020.

OP skill specialists have a place in custom maps, nerf them is nerfing the trickery required to win those maps and the fun one can have doing it. On the other hand, HotA was quick on reducing the power of the only really good magic skill out of the schools scope but u will never see them nerfing Offense and Armorer, cause those are the skills prefered by their target consumers, the MP guys.
____________
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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted August 22, 2020 09:58 PM
Edited by Phoenix4ever at 21:59, 22 Aug 2020.

I don't think they will ever nerf Offense or Armorer either, but those are the bread and butter of Stronghold and Fortress, which are imo both mediocre towns.
It's not like Logistics and Intelligence suddenly became bad skills, you would be a fool not to still pick Logistics for the main hero and Intelligence can still be considered. (Intelligence could perhaps have been 20/40/60 though.)

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted August 22, 2020 10:55 PM
Edited by Hourglass at 23:01, 22 Aug 2020.

weilan said:

I still haven't experienced the potency of Interference, so I don't know how good that is, somehow feels too specific. I'd pick Mephala for the Armorer, but first I should play one long game with Giselle just to see how good it actually is.


Mephala is better in general for sure, and to some extend your expectation of Interference being "spesific" is kinda right, as it only works against other heroes, just like the old Resistance.

However, despite it being spesific, it's still secondary skill related speciality, so it's better in the late game than a creature spesialist for example. Ivor is one the better creature specialists, but I find it hard to keep relatively impactful Grand elf stack alive (they tend to die because all the sieging) so I would totally prefer Giselle over Ivor as a late game oriented main hero.

VMaiko said:

It was a rude nerf, especially if you plan to play on G maps. Kyrre became completely useless in HotA because of it. (Gunnar and Dessa too).
I'm not surprised there are people out there wanting to edit HotA, because understandably, HotA Crew is doing everything wrong.


Ehm, no.

Kyrre is not and never will be "completely useless" no matter how you slice it.  Still one the best heroes in the game. Gunnar is still likely a top 10 hero in the game. Logistics was rightfully asked for years to be nerfed, as there's simply no world where one shouldn't have picked it. Now there are atleast situations where picking it up isn't necessary. I don't really understand why an RPG would offer a player a choice between A and B, if going for A is always the superior choice.

Also, note that people who have succesfully edited Hota have usually done even more changes to the original game. Look no further than Phoenix, for example.

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weilan
weilan


Hired Hero
posted August 23, 2020 11:10 AM

Hourglass said:
weilan said:

I still haven't experienced the potency of Interference, so I don't know how good that is, somehow feels too specific. I'd pick Mephala for the Armorer, but first I should play one long game with Giselle just to see how good it actually is.


Mephala is better in general for sure, and to some extend your expectation of Interference being "spesific" is kinda right, as it only works against other heroes, just like the old Resistance.

However, despite it being spesific, it's still secondary skill related speciality, so it's better in the late game than a creature spesialist for example. Ivor is one the better creature specialists, but I find it hard to keep relatively impactful Grand elf stack alive (they tend to die because all the sieging) so I would totally prefer Giselle over Ivor as a late game oriented main hero.



I used to like Ivor a lot about 10 years ago, but I learned the hard way that his bonus becomes useless when everyone tries to take out his Elves.

Then Mephala became my favorite hero for Rampart and I've stuck with her for a long time. What bothers me about some other heroes in all towns, is that some of them feel really useless, like Gem or Mephala and a few others.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted August 23, 2020 12:33 PM

I think you meant Gem and Melodia in that sentence, cause yeah they are useless.

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evildustructor
evildustructor


Adventuring Hero
posted August 30, 2020 11:28 PM

gunnar totally useless lol hes still top 10 heroes in the game idk what u are on about the logs nerf was good imo, its still a top secondary skill u deem it worth picking 213123 times more than most other skills

ofc kyrre gets worse than ivor now due to ranger being a pretty meh class and u usually prefer the starting elves but still kyrres totally fine, rampart generally has terrible choices overall i mean u can probably win a game starting malcom and it will come in handy just because of magic arrow

coronius aeris and elleshar are totally viable as well imo even jenova is viable for the gold and rng secondary skill luck, coronius for spell distribution, aeris for easy scouting and elleshar for mage games

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Rimgrabber
Rimgrabber


Known Hero
It's a fixer-upper
posted August 31, 2020 06:35 AM

I think that generally, Offense and Armorer specialists are better than logistics specialists simply because logistics doesn't actually help you in the final battle. Sure it's great to be able to be everywhere all the time, but in the end the advantage you get from having for troops and artifacts is pretty much offset by your opponent's troops dealing 70% more damage in every single attack or by having a bonus bigger than mass shield on them at all times.

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evildustructor
evildustructor


Adventuring Hero
posted September 01, 2020 01:32 AM

the amount of map control you gain with logistics actually helps out the final battle alot considering you get a lot more efficient movement to army gathering rate and how much you can reach between towns/portals/dds/how much you can gather with wings or fly etc, dont underestimate logs

and to be fair, most games dont feature a level 100000 crag or tazar, most games end far earlier!! and yeah theyre ofc better with equal army and stats but without logs neither the army nor the stats will be equal

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Rimgrabber
Rimgrabber


Known Hero
It's a fixer-upper
posted September 01, 2020 01:41 AM

Yeah but I'm saying that most of the time the offense/armorer boosts will do more for you than the extra artifacts and creatures.

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evildustructor
evildustructor


Adventuring Hero
posted September 01, 2020 01:47 AM
Edited by evildustructor at 02:09, 01 Sep 2020.

well yeah if we min max everything then ofc tazar will win in the end , but i mean how many games ever come to total min maxing? usually you rush or get rushed and the artifacts and army are never really matched between the players imo which is where logistics shines to make u control the map much more efficiently which is what i meant!

just 2 stay on topic, best starting rampart hero in hota is obv ivor, in sod kyrre

in mirrors probably jenova aeris or coronius (whatever works really imo all rampart heroes are kinda bad) and for anarchy games ryland

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Rimgrabber
Rimgrabber


Known Hero
It's a fixer-upper
posted September 01, 2020 03:17 AM

Mephala is much better than Ivor

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SllemsIahs
SllemsIahs

Tavern Dweller
posted September 01, 2020 05:56 AM

Hourglass said:
IMO Giselle is somewhat a wild card hero. In MP she can be a really good, if you're up against a hero that is planning to win by using magic. Sometimes that happens, sometimes the other player only has lvl 1 spells to cast or no mana to cast, and ofc in that kind of scenario there would be more preferable heroes than Giselle.

In SP I like her a lot, as the speciality will likely get atleast some value, and as she starts with only one skill, you have bit more room of choosing what skills you're willing to have.


How effective is hi level interference, aka Giselle + artifacts, vs a hi level warlock's Armageddon? Is Giselle the ideal anti-Armag in HOTA?

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evildustructor
evildustructor


Adventuring Hero
posted September 01, 2020 04:11 PM
Edited by evildustructor at 16:15, 01 Sep 2020.

Rimgrabber said:
Mephala is much better than Ivor


well yeah meph has a really good speciality and good starting skills, but people usually start ivor because of the extra 2-4 elves to get going quicker and both are rangers so they are meh-tier mains really, ivor got some other fancy tricks like taking pickets easier etc, and in SoD kyrre is generally more useful

but yeah some people do start meph despite all this but people still would probably choose most good barbs or overlords over meph

giselle is rly strong late game!! ofc she provides no utility for farming so thats kinda bad, but you can almost invalidate enemy power with the inf arties and high level giselle haha, saw a game earlier where giselle reduced opponents jeddites power to 2 lol. she's really good for the final battle especially against a mage main, but yeah doesn't provide much for the general farming and gameplay up until fb. she's often banned in mirror templates just because of this particular advantage she provides !! thorgrim is more a meme choice and doesn't provide much, i mean its fun to do thorgrim dwarf armageddon strats but its not good considering the risks but hes just "alright" as the other rampy heroes, the strength in rampart is not in the heroes but in the centaurs&elves and early game possibilities (like taking hives with dwarves and dendroids if u play creature bank templates)

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted September 01, 2020 08:17 PM

SllemsIahs said:

How effective is hi level interference, aka Giselle + artifacts, vs a hi level warlock's Armageddon? Is Giselle the ideal anti-Armag in HOTA?


Well, most probably the best hero one could have in such a fight. Combining high level Giselle with artifacts, and the arma is likely doing next to no dmg at all. Ofc, it can be hard to reach such a point, but in general high amounts of interference is more accessiable than the old resistance.

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