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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: Hero-class specialization
Thread: Hero-class specialization This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
sulik
sulik

Tavern Dweller
posted September 24, 2018 10:41 AM

Poll Question:
Hero-class specialization

I was thinking, adding class-specific specialization may renew heroes 3 considerably. It can be similar to Heroes 5's town specialization, but not as cumbersome. For example, Cleric can heal twice as effective, or Ranger always have their ranged units blessed with Precision. What do you think?

The poll question: Would hero-class specialization add value to heroes 3?

Responses:
Yes!
Maybe, it is complex!
No!
 View Results!

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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted September 24, 2018 10:53 AM

sounds good to me (voted YES)

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RerryR
RerryR


Known Hero
posted September 24, 2018 11:38 AM

The question is how good can you execute it.
Show us some more of your ideas, please.

I have also something in mind/prepared which goes in that direction but that is still in the future.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted September 24, 2018 12:27 PM

Sounds interesting, but it is complex and hard to balance. Would probably also be pretty hard to come up with 18 (20 if HotA) unique class abilities.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted September 24, 2018 02:10 PM

It won't be hard to come up.

But abilities have to be weak as to not unbalance the game.

Double heal is probably fine because healing sucks, for example.

Same with double ballista or extra Catapult shot... (would be three with expert ballistics... also, is it not ironic that Ballistics does NOT improve ballista? They are based on the same word :V)

That already gives us three "balanced" specializations :v

I can think of all if necessary:

-2% melee damage taken (Knight)
Double Healing from tent (Cleric)

+2% melee damage (Demoniac)
+1 turn duration to curses (Heretic)

3% native magic resistance (Planeswalker)
+1 turn duration to blessings (Elementalist)

-10% price on artifact buys with hero (Alchemist)
Learn 1 random 1st level spell every 3 levels (Wizard)

+1 health to 1st level creatures (Overlord)
+5% spell damage (Warlock)

+3% ranged damage (Ranger)
+1 Spell point regeneration per day (Druid)

Attacks have 5% chance of Wyvern poison (Beastmaster)
-5% magical damage from enemies (Witch)

-5% map dwelling price recruiting with hero (Barbarian)
Half price on war machine buys with hero (Battle Mage)

-2% enemy ranged damage (Death Knight)
-Using level 7 creatures that don't give dragons on Skeleton Transformers gives +250xp per creature (Necromancer)

____________

Note keep in mind that this is thought for vainilla, not hota.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted September 24, 2018 04:26 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 16:34, 24 Sep 2018.

Okay those abilities are weak and most of them very reasonable. You could probably make them 5%-10% bonus, to actually make it noticeable. I don't like the Wizard one though, it ruins Eagle Eye and Scholar even more. The mana regen, also sounds more like a Heretic ability, than a Druid ability. Half prices for War Machines sounds like a good deal, -20% would probably be enough, as that hero can also buy War Machines for other heroes...

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sulik
sulik

Tavern Dweller
posted September 24, 2018 05:09 PM
Edited by sulik at 17:41, 24 Sep 2018.

To make it easier, I think we may want to give unique tags to these classes, then work on the number later. The tags should reflect the lore / concepts of the hero and their war/combat philosophy, for example necromancers are about cursing the enemy and durable/numerous units.
I also take NimoStar's suggestion into this "generalization".

My version:

1.1. Knight: Standard. Harmony. Morale starts at 1 (not 0). Better armoured
1.2. Cleric: Healing. Better tent healing
2.1. Demoniac: Demon. Demons are faster.
2.2. Heretic: Hacking the minds. Cheaper, and always available mind spells (berserk, forgetfulness)
3.1. Planeswalker: Summoning elementals. Cheaper, and always available summoning spells
3.2. Elementalist: Speed. Cheaper, and always available haste and slow spells.
4.1. Alchemist: Artifacts. Cheaper artifacts.
4.2. Wizard: Master of magic. Cheaper spells.
5.1. Overlord: Master of the horde. Low level creatures have more HP
5.2. Warlock: Destructive spells. Better air spell damage.
6.1. Range: Range. Better ranged damage
6.2. Druid: Forest. If the battle is in the forest, have random beast showed up to help. Luck starts with 1 (not 0)
7.1. Beastmaster: Beast. Beast have better chances to perform their specialities (Poison, paralyze, death stare, etc.)
7.2. Witch: Defensive spell. Less magical damage from enemies.
8.1. Barbarian: Melee. Better melee attack. Ranged units have no melee penalty.
8.2. Battle Mage: Magic aids battle. Cheaper, and always available unit-enhancing spells (e.g. bloodlust).
9.1. Death Knight: Deadly. Slower but more durable units. Unstoppable, but take times to get to the enemies.
9.2. Necromancer: Weakening the enemies. Better, and always available curse spells (e.g. weakening, curse).

We can also consider non-combat features. For example, the ability to build twice on the first day of the week, or to increase the unit production with additional cost (e.g. can buy 50% more troops but at 200% price), to increase army size by 5% weekly, etc. The WoG options can be considered (https://h3maparchives.celestialheavens.com/wog/wogfeatures.html), but should avoid the complexity. The concept should be short, simple, and does not affect the gameplay too much. Some enhancements may be made to the User Interface to make these things less complicated.
____________

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Gandalf196
Gandalf196


Adventuring Hero
posted September 24, 2018 06:05 PM

I've discussed this long ago with members of this forum. Besides the unique skills, I would also like to see a rebalance of the primary skills (with no post level 10 scaling). My ideas:


____________
All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.

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Lord_Immortal
Lord_Immortal


Famous Hero
posted September 24, 2018 06:07 PM
Edited by Lord_Immortal at 18:18, 24 Sep 2018.

I think that this bonus should be progressive every 5 or 10 hero levels(depends on the class). As an overall idea, I like NimoStar's suggestions and I have taken inspiration mainly by those. But I'd propose:

Knight: Less melee damage taken. -2% for every 5 hero levels. So from Lv.1-10 is +2%, 11-20 is -4% etc.
Cleric: Better effect& less mana for the following spells: Cure, Bless, Destroy Undead, Mirth, Fortune, Prayer, Resurrection.

Ranger: More range damage dealt. +3% for every 5 hero levels.
Druid: Better healing from tent.

Alchemist: +100 daily gold generation for every 5 hero levels. Also +1 random resourse for every 5 levels after the 10th level.
Wizard: -1 mana cost for every 5 hero levels.

Death Knight: Less ranged damage taken. -2% for every 5 hero levels. So from Lv.1-10 is +2%, 11-20 is -4% etc.
Necromancer: +2% necromancy effectiveness for every 5 hero levels.

Demoniac: Bonus to Pit Lord's demon raising ability every 5 hero levels.
Heretic: +1 to daily mana regeneration for every 5 hero levels

Overlord: A little different. Lv.1-10 has +1 Hp for level 1 units in his army. Lv.11-20 has +2 HP for level 1 units and +1 Hp for Level 2 units. Lv.21-30 has +3 Hp for level 1 units, +2 for level 2 and +1 for level 3.
Warlock: Increases damage from spells every 5 hero levels.

Beastmaster: Every 5 hero levels beast abilities are more powerful/frequent. For example, Basilisks and Medusas petrify more frequently, Gorgons kill more with Death Stare, Wyvern poison is more powerful and so on.
Witch: Better effect& less mana for the following spells: Curse, Weakness, Death Ripple, Sorrow, Misfortune

Barbarian: +2% melee damage for every 5 hero levels.
Battle Mage: Less magical damage from enemies every 5 hero levels.

Planeswalkers: Basic/Adv./Expert Magic skills also give 10/20/30% of magic resistance for the spells of that school.
Elementalists: Basic/Adv./Expert Magic are 10%/20%/30% more effective.


EDIT: By the way, since I just saw it, I also like Gandalf196's idea(mostly). I don't think that both classes of the town should share the unique skill in all the situations and I don't like so much "Elvish Luck" and "Shadow Strike".
Counterstrike for Knights is OK - but with 1/2/3 extra counterstrikes instead of stronger.
Clerics might have the bonus I mentioned through a skill called "Light Magic".
Rangers I'd go for Archery as their base skill. Druids with First Aid.
Alchemists Estates and I like the Metamagic skill idea.
Gating is a nice skill for Demoniac. Fire Magic for Heretic.
Battlerage(instead of Enrage as a name). Shared among Battlemage & Barbarian is ok. I like it.
The bonus I mentioned for Overlords(no skill here) and Sorcery for Warlocks.
The bonus I mentioned for Beastmasters(no skill here) and the Witches skill could be called Witchcraft. But I also like the idea of "swamp trench". I'd call it "Steadfastness" and it'd be available to all classes but Beastmaster starts with it and it's frequent for Witches.
For Planeswalker/Elementalists the bonuses I mentioned without new skills would do fine.

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FfuzzyLogik
FfuzzyLogik


Known Hero
posted September 24, 2018 06:34 PM
Edited by FfuzzyLogik at 18:36, 24 Sep 2018.

Some ideas :
I suggest abilities depending on level.
For the fixed one (especially for buy "XXX" for example artifact), you'll just hope to have this champ at level 1, buy artifact is intresting and "dismiss" the champion... So having this ability as "main hero" will once more be "weak". I won't add to beastmaster more defense nor barbarian some attack...

Answer to NimoStar & Sulik :
- Knight : 2% melee damage taken (Knight) => Too much the same of "armorer" but why not ? I suggest +0.25% defense against melee ?/level.
- Cleric : Healing from tent (Cleric) => Maybe too weak ? Increase the health of tent and/or armor, tent heals twice per round and increase healing spells by 2,5% /level of champion (not resurrection).
- Demoniac : +2% melee damage (Demoniac) => Samely +0.25%/level ?
I'm not fond of the speed boost because not depending on level...
- Heretic : +1 turn duration to curses (Heretic) you mean just curse or all spells "who curses" ? If just one spell, that's quite poor...
- Planeswalker : 3% native magic resistance (Planeswalker) => 0.5% MR/level for all elements or maybe 2% but for one element ? (depending of hero : Kalt => water ?). Why not summons better but "how" ? +0.5 or 1 elemental by level ? But summonings are level 5 spells so...
- Elementalist : +1 turn duration to blessings (Elementalist) => again for all blessings ?
- Alchemist : 10% price on artifact buys with hero (Alchemist) => 1% decreasing less price by level.
- Wizard : Learn 1 random 1st level spell every 3 levels (Wizard) => 0.25% chance/level of magic mirror ?
I dislike the idea of less cost of spells as they already have "wizards" who do that in their army.
- Overlord : +1 health to 1st level creatures (Overlord) => +0.20 health/level to level 1 creatures ?
- Warlock : +5% spell damage (Warlock) => +0.5% damage/level ?
- Ranger : +3% ranged damage (Ranger) => +0.25% damage to range/level ?
- Druid : +1 Spell point regeneration per day => +0.25 mana regen/level ?
- Beastmaster : Attacks have 5% chance of Wyvern poison.
Not fond of, it may be very intresting to have this champion just for that and beastmaster are quite strong heroes... => No special idea for now but I won't make their troops too much power as they also are very great fighters (in defense).
- Whitch : 5% magical damage from enemies (Witch) : Not sure of what you mean ? => For me whitches are sorcerers/sorceress who maybe curses ? So here curses are more efficient ? (duration/effect) ?
- : 5% map dwelling price recruiting with hero => +0.25 defense against shooting damage/level ? As they are fierce warriors, their troops resist more to shoot ?
Totally not for more increase damage from creatures as they already have this "overpower"... Offense specialists, many attack skill... Now more bonus in the same ?!
- Battle mage : Half price on war machine buys with hero (Battle Mage) => Increase damage of war machines (+1 shoot for ballistas and catapults) ? Or yes, boost better with enhancing spells ; that looks more a "mage" ability.
But will you seriously take a battle mage as main hero with that snowty ability of decreasing cost of war machines or just use them to buy machines for your main hero who has better stats of combat and (if you add that) an other bonus ? They are already weaker than barbarians... Stop increase the OP and decrease the "weak".
- Death Knight : -2% enemy ranged damage => +0.25 defense/level for skeletons and zombies ?
Not for slowering the very slow zombies...
- Necromancer : Using level 7 creatures that don't give dragons on Skeleton Transformers gives +250xp per creature. => Maybe some reanimation of some of "dead undead" troops on your own side ?
Maybe better curses but I don't feel that as "Necromancer's" trait... Necromancers animate/use deads... They also curses but that's more a whitch's ability than a necromancer I find...

That's just some ideas...
____________
FfuzzyLogik.

If I'm crazy ? Sure, because its madness to be normal...

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RerryR
RerryR


Known Hero
posted September 24, 2018 07:26 PM

I think when posting suggestions it is important on what base you do the balance. So are we talking SoD or WoG. Stack experience? hero specialization boost? As a mod maker, this is important.

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Otuken
Otuken


Known Hero
posted September 24, 2018 08:10 PM

Neither yes nor no because I am totally oppose the concept of hero class. I believe that every hero has their own primary skill and chance of secondary skill distributions. Then adding additional specialization would make sense

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sulik
sulik

Tavern Dweller
posted September 24, 2018 09:23 PM
Edited by sulik at 21:28, 24 Sep 2018.

FfuzzyLogik said:
Some ideas :
I suggest abilities depending on level.
For the fixed one (especially for buy "XXX" for example artifact), you'll just hope to have this champ at level 1, buy artifact is intresting and "dismiss" the champion... So having this ability as "main hero" will once more be "weak". I won't add to beastmaster more defense nor barbarian some attack...

Answer to NimoStar & Sulik :...

That's just some ideas...


Having straight, unchanged bonus may be not a bad idea. For example, +350gold heroes are perfectly ok. In addition, a 5% bonus scales with whatever the situation is, so I dont think it's a big issue.

The addition of specialization is just to add the "flavors". One must be careful not to make the flavors override the primary and secondary skills, which are and should be the primary sources of heroes' power.

As such, I think the number can be adjusted easily. The primary concerns are 1. If the ideas are cool, and 2. If they can be balanced. Number 2, as pointed out by NimoStar, can be done by making the specialization not too powerful, i.e. some 2% or 3% there. As you can see from the other post, the concern should be toward 1. If the ideas are cool enough. For example, Ranger have increased ranged attack, which is obvious. Or Cleric has better healing. But the like of Witch, Wizard, or Death Knight, etc. are not as obvious nor interesting enough. Or the Knight's increased armor does not sound too interesting.
I would prefer some mechanics that is simple but novel, unexpected but not out-of-the-world. For example, fighting in the forest would have the Druid's side joined by some wolves (say, have HP = 5% of the Druid's army).
____________

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted September 25, 2018 12:17 AM
Edited by NimoStar at 00:23, 25 Sep 2018.

Quote:
I don't like the Wizard one though, it ruins Eagle Eye and Scholar even more.


I don't think so really. More spells = More spells to teach with scholar or for enemy to learn with Eagle Eye :V

Also take into account it only learns 1st level spells.

But I am open to other alternatives, another one I though was +2 max mana per level.

+2% chance of magic mirror is also OK.

Quote:
Okay those abilities are weak and most of them very reasonable. You could probably make them 5%-10% bonus, to actually make it noticeable. The mana regen, also sounds more like a Heretic ability, than a Druid ability. Half prices for War Machines sounds like a good deal, -20% would probably be enough, as that hero can also buy War Machines for other heroes...



I used the +1 mana regen on Druids as some sort of "replenishing in nature". Heretic bonus for curses would not fit in druids...

War machines are already very bad, but maybe -30% ?
I thought war machines coudn't be transferred when I designed that one. But that was only the catapult, so you are right.

Quote:
Having straight, unchanged bonus may be not a bad idea. For example, +350gold heroes are perfectly ok. In addition, a 5% bonus scales with whatever the situation is, so I dont think it's a big issue.



I support this.


WHY SHOULD BONUSES NOT SCALE WITH LEVEL?
(I care more about this than about the chosen bonuses themselves)

Also remember, in H3, you have to invest a FULL skill, like Sorcery, to just get a +5% bonus.
See:
Resistance, Sorcery, Armorer...

If you give even a 1% bonus per level to a class, by level 20 it will already have 20% bonus, more than expert version of the skill, without having ever spent one skill point.

This will obviously also become imbalanced at high level as some specialties will have much more influence in battle than others.

Why is a flat rate best?
Say you have the -2% melee damage taken bonus.
In your level 1 fight, 100 enemy Centaurs will deal the damage of 98 Centaurs. You have nullified 2 centaurs.
In your level 25 fight, 100 enemy Black Dragons will deal the damage of 98 enemy Black Dragons. You have nullified the damage of 2 Black Dragons.

So as you see, flat bonuses, if they are percentual, will scale with the game.
Level bonuses will just get out of control; they will be completely unnoticeable at level 1, but will snowball into mounstrous by level 25. Some will still be useless, while some will be completely unestoppable.

Take this:
Wizard: 0.25% chance/level of magic mirror ?
So level 100 just 25% chance of magic mirror. By then spell damage is almost useless compared to armies. Enemy can just use spells that can't be reflected, such as area spells and mass spells, that are the most used anyways.

Demoniac: Samely +0.25% melee damage/level
Level 100 +25% melee damage, this will wreck wizards (or any other non-combat specialty).

(Yes, I know you don't reach level 100, its just an example.
Also you need to get to level 10 just to have 2,5% flat bonus comparable to my initial bonuses... on first levels there won't be any difference and all classes will be the same.)

Keeping the flat rate makes them noticeable at any level, while also preventing overpowering at high level.

Its also easier to balance between classes since you know what you get and how it compares with others, and it doesn't depend as much on mods.

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FfuzzyLogik
FfuzzyLogik


Known Hero
posted September 25, 2018 04:34 PM
Edited by FfuzzyLogik at 16:44, 25 Sep 2018.

To Nimostar,

Your calculations are intresting for "centaur" sample but not totally correct : you forget that 100 centaurs are not equivalent to 100 centaurs of some ennemy who have more attack or defense skill than you. Adding 2% damage is adding more for a hero who has many attack skill than to a mage (who have less)... And multiplicative if you have offense... And once more if you're offense specialist...

But as you know it quite not possible to have level 50 hero... So thinking about level 100 ?
Your agument is perfectly correct, the values are proposed are probably not good (too strong at high level).
But its not destroying nor argument about ability depending on level will be bad or not...

I agree with idea that some of those shall be too weak at start if there is added a "small bonus" who increases by level.
But on other side, adding effect not depending on level gives the risk of making heroes who are just used for that ability but for nothing else. I hate "mines heroes" (+1 in gem, mercury, 350gold, ...) because you just take them for this ability but never "play them". I won't see a hero just here to buy artifacts or war machines but never played in fight. There are too much "useless" heroes...
If they add more ressources depending on level, you may be intrested to take them and levelling them because they shall help you to get ressources so indirectly have army... I'd prefer that. But that's just my opinion, you may agree or not.
For gold maybe 50 GP/level ? So the +350 will come at level 7.
For other ressources that's harder to change because it may not be "divided" easily. But maybe add +1 one day, two days, three days... of each week (depending on level) may be possible to make a "depending on level ability" so increase the intrest of having those heroes as "main" ?

Maybe a value of 1% +0.1%/level (so 1% every 10 levels) shall be better ? So noticeable at first levels but stronger for hero who are more advanced. Its also a solution to make hero are "full of abilities" to continue to advance... I think once more for mages heroes who are less and less strong in endgames compared to might ones.

Good evening,
____________
FfuzzyLogik.

If I'm crazy ? Sure, because its madness to be normal...

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sulik
sulik

Tavern Dweller
posted September 25, 2018 05:04 PM
Edited by sulik at 22:23, 25 Sep 2018.

FfuzzyLogik said:
To Nimostar,

Your calculations are intresting for "centaur" sample but not totally correct : you forget that 100 centaurs are not equivalent to 100 centaurs of some ennemy who have more attack or defense skill than you. Adding 2% damage is adding more for a hero who has many attack skill than to a mage (who have less)... And multiplicative if you have offense... And once more if you're offense specialist...
...
I hate "mines heroes" (+1 in gem, mercury, 350gold, ...) because you just take them for this ability but never "play them".


I am not NimoStar, can I join your conversation?
Your first point is relevant in deciding the mechanism by which the numbers are calculated. For clarity, I would assume that this 2% change is calculated last, by using the final damage value calculated by all these skills, points, spells, etc.

Your second point can be divisive, which is why  I suggest we try to add "tags" to hero-classes, so we can, in a way, signify the ways these classes are best played. However, there are two considerations, as follow:
1. What is irrelevant about mine heroes? After all, not all heroes are suitable to fight. Combat is just a part (well, a big one) of the game. We have different heroes not only for different play styles but also different situations. Low on gold? Go for gold heroes. In fact, there are even skills/buildings that generate gold.

2. Hero-classes are not definitive. You can use gold-generating heroes to be your main heroes if you want. For example, there are melee Sorceresses (Diablo II) which bring much fun to the players. In fact, fun and challenges are hand-in-hand.

Another view is as follow: a game lasts 100 days. For a 350-gold hero, that's 35000, which is alot. You can buy, for 2000 gold, a secondary skill. Or 1000 gold for a primary skill point. In 100 days, Crag Hack can be at level 20 and thus add 30% melee attack damage  to your melee army, while the gold hero can increase his/her attack skill by 35000/1000 = 35 skill points. Using the table at http://heroes.thelazy.net/wiki/Damage#Attack-Defense_difference_.E2.80.93_variables_I1_and_R1, using a 5%, it's 35*5% = 175% increase in all attack damage.
____________

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Lord_Immortal
Lord_Immortal


Famous Hero
posted September 26, 2018 05:25 PM

NimoStar said:
Quote:

WHY SHOULD BONUSES NOT SCALE WITH LEVEL?
(I care more about this than about the chosen bonuses themselves)

Also remember, in H3, you have to invest a FULL skill, like Sorcery, to just get a +5% bonus.
See:
Resistance, Sorcery, Armorer...

If you give even a 1% bonus per level to a class, by level 20 it will already have 20% bonus, more than expert version of the skill, without having ever spent one skill point.

This will obviously also become imbalanced at high level as some specialties will have much more influence in battle than others.

The skill will still need to be present in the hero's skill list though. But limitations can be implemented so that unless you have Adv. or Expert version of a skill you can't improve more than a certain percentage.

NimoStar said:
Quote:

So as you see, flat bonuses, if they are percentual, will scale with the game.
Level bonuses will just get out of control; they will be completely unnoticeable at level 1, but will snowball into mounstrous by level 25. Some will still be useless, while some will be completely unestoppable.


Not if they're scaled properly. (see below what I mean)

NimoStar said:
Quote:

Take this:
Wizard: 0.25% chance/level of magic mirror ?
So level 100 just 25% chance of magic mirror. By then spell damage is almost useless compared to armies. Enemy can just use spells that can't be reflected, such as area spells and mass spells, that are the most used anyways.

Demoniac: Samely +0.25% melee damage/level
Level 100 +25% melee damage, this will wreck wizards (or any other non-combat specialty).

(Yes, I know you don't reach level 100, its just an example.
Also you need to get to level 10 just to have 2,5% flat bonus comparable to my initial bonuses... on first levels there won't be any difference and all classes will be the same.)

Keeping the flat rate makes them noticeable at any level, while also preventing overpowering at high level.

Its also easier to balance between classes since you know what you get and how it compares with others, and it doesn't depend as much on mods.

Almost nobody goes up to level 100. Maybe around 30-40. Let's assume 35.
0.25 * 35 = 8.75%. It's an acceptable rate for Demoniacs damage bonusa low rate for Magic Mirror. Maybe 0.15% bonus then we'll have a bonus damage of 5.25% by level 35.

If we say, however, we have a bonus of Magic Mirror +1.25%/level, by level 35 it will be 43.75% - and that is not useless.

What I mean is that when considering bonuses that scale with level, you should consider that each of those bonuses needs to be scaled on its own rate in a way that is neither underpowered nor overpowered - but this is a problem of optimizing the mod, not a problem of the Scaled Bonuses as a concept by itself.

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paulemile
paulemile


Known Hero
posted September 29, 2018 05:26 PM

Hey there !

I'm all for heroes class specialization !

I worked of some class specific abilities myself back in the day. I won't post them here since I don't want to flood the topic with
another list, but here are some other features I had in mind.

Classes could have 2 specific ability (1 for combat mode, 1 related to the adventure map)

Example for Barbarians
Avdenture map ability, Pillage : destroys a building in exchange for resources (would be hard to mod and balance, I guess). Basically, you could get 12 crystal instantly by destroying a crystal cavern instead of waiting for 12 days. Should be kinda fun to use on enemy territory aswell.
Combat ability, Warcries : different ways to encourage troops or frighten enemies. Again, strong balancing needed but you get the idea.

I got all the classes covered, if by any chance you are interested.

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Another thing : secondary skills' effectiveness could be linked to the hero's class.

Example : Basic Offense would give 10% dmg hand-to-hand bonus to an army led by a Barbarian, but only 3% to an army led by a Wizard.

A fair amount of secondary skills would need a rework, though (say, Wisdom or Magic Schools). Also, it might force the player to always choose the same skills for the same classes, even more than today.

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Lth3
Lth3


Known Hero
posted September 29, 2018 06:44 PM

paulemile said:
Another thing : secondary skills' effectiveness could be linked to the hero's class.

Example : Basic Offense would give 10% dmg hand-to-hand bonus to an army led by a Barbarian, but only 3% to an army led by a Wizard.


should be the opposite then, balance-wise - 10% bonus for Wizard and only 3% bonus ( or no bonus ) for Barbarian, since it is tons harder to get that skill with mages, while it comes as second nature to Barbs

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paulemile
paulemile


Known Hero
posted September 29, 2018 09:30 PM

I see your point but then it wouldn't make any sense

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