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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: Best H4 magic school?
Thread: Best H4 magic school? This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · «PREV
NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted December 20, 2018 06:50 PM
Edited by NimoStar at 18:51, 20 Dec 2018.

Quote:
vamps this makes death overpowered


Well thats morre of a faction thing than a Magic School thing.

You can use Death Magic without being Death Town (unlike in H3 where other heroes dont learn necromancy).

However, I have nerfed vampire defense too, but gave them Hypnotism.

Quote:
Without other skills Death is the most powerful. Fatigue/Poison/Raise Ghost(for the Aging special) is enough to clear most mobs on the map except the undead and golems.

Chaos is in my opinion the weakest because anything it can do Nature can do better. Magic Resistance is also too common and there is no way to increase the spell damage past a certain point.


1- While Fatigue is useful, it is not much if not Mass Fatigue, which isn't guaranteed to go in your mague guild. That beinfg said, it *would* be like Mass SLow which is one of the best H3 spells.

2- Needing to cast so many spells and needing your oipponents to be Living for them to work seems like a massive disadvantage that should not be overlooked. There are like 9 unliving or artifact creatures.

3- Everything? I woudn't say that. Nature has no direct damage, Nature has no equivalent to Mass Confusion and that is a key spell (so much I had to nerf it in my mod).
Chaos can eliminate enemies *before* they have a chance to attack you. Even if you summon with Nature, the opponents can still advance, shoot or use spells and kill your squishy mage heroes before you can do anything.
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BrennusWhiskey
BrennusWhiskey


Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
The quickest H4 player
posted December 22, 2018 04:39 PM
Edited by BrennusWhiskey at 16:42, 22 Dec 2018.

NimoStar said:


Well thats morre of a faction thing than a Magic School thing.

You can use Death Magic without being Death Town (unlike in H3 where other heroes dont learn necromancy).


Yes you can but first of all you need to learn it and secondly you won't be so fast in learning as 'pure' other mage. It is also possibe that you won't have also proper spells in your town. Waste of time (online).

However, I have nerfed vampire defense too, but gave them Hypnotism.

LOL. Vamps with Hypnotism. The best ad to not use your mod.



1- While Fatigue is useful, it is not much if not Mass Fatigue, which isn't guaranteed to go in your mague guild. That beinfg said, it *would* be like Mass SLow which is one of the best H3 spells.

Mass slow is useful but this is not the winning spell like eg. Steal All Spells.



3- Everything? I woudn't say that. Nature has no direct damage, Nature has no equivalent to Mass Confusion and that is a key spell (so much I had to nerf it in my mod).
Chaos can eliminate enemies *before* they have a chance to attack you. Even if you summon with Nature, the opponents can still advance, shoot or use spells and kill your squishy mage heroes before you can do anything.


That is true for Chaos.

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted December 23, 2018 06:21 PM
Edited by Doomforge at 18:21, 23 Dec 2018.

Order for me. Many cool spells and Hypnotize was such fun in this game.

Life with mass ward was excellent, but it was luck of a draw to get the ward you actually needed. It got even better in Equilibris since they added a resurrection spell.

Chaos I loved for Cat's reflexes, and Nature I loved for Dragon's Strength, but it was pretty hard to get. 1 chance in 4. Nature had way too many summon spells, you'd normally use one or maybe two at best.

Death was pretty meh, even though Vamprism spell was pretty fun. What I disliked is that the "raise" spells were just overcomplicated summon spells that needed corpses to even work, making them useless.
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Ghost
Ghost


Supreme Hero
Therefore I am
posted December 23, 2018 07:47 PM

I read your strategy
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monere
monere


Famous Hero
posted December 23, 2018 08:20 PM

Doomforge said:
Order for me. Many cool spells and Hypnotize was such fun in this game.

Life with mass ward was excellent, but it was luck of a draw to get the ward you actually needed. It got even better in Equilibris since they added a resurrection spell.

Chaos I loved for Cat's reflexes, and Nature I loved for Dragon's Strength, but it was pretty hard to get. 1 chance in 4. Nature had way too many summon spells, you'd normally use one or maybe two at best.

Death was pretty meh, even though Vamprism spell was pretty fun. What I disliked is that the "raise" spells were just overcomplicated summon spells that needed corpses to even work, making them useless.


agree with most of what you said (especially about cat's reflexes and dragon strength, which are 2 of the coolest spells I have ever seen in the HoMM franchise).

To these, I would also add however the mass slayer spell which is pretty handy in tough battles against dragons, the martyr + summon whatever combo, which is always useful in tough battles regarding of opponent, as well as the "aura of fear" spell, which has saved me in many battles.

I have seen people use the (mass) cancellation spell quite often, so I'd say that is a good Death spell, as well (even if I personally prefer to buff my own army rather than debuff the enemy heroes ` armies), but still, for me Order, Life and Nature schools are the absolute best, followed closely and in equal measure by Death and Chaos.

There's so many cool spells in Heroes 4 and only God knows how I hate the fact that they can be dispelled so easily by any of the 2-4 heroes that your opponent usually brings into battle, because otherwise... I get an orgasm at the thought of teleporting my beloved (cat reflexes'd, vampiric touch'd, dragon + giant strength'd, aura of fear'd, and bless'd) hydras between the enemy army and let the hit the enemy hit the hydras to their peril while I slowly sip a cup of tea. So sad they they dispel all of these spell so easily, or else I would get the feeling that I can play heroes, too LOL

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted January 02, 2019 09:08 AM
Edited by NimoStar at 09:08, 02 Jan 2019.

Quote:
LOL. Vamps with Hypnotism. The best ad to not use your mod.


Lol isn't an argument. it isn't spell hypnotism, but the "charm" ability of mermaids. And it works perfectly to give more tactical depth.

And anyone can change it with just changing an hex. I think picking a creature ability as a reason to not use a mod is stupid and infantile.

At least I did not give choppy looking teleportation to Earth Elementals like Equilibris did... but even then, I would never say that's reason not to play Equilibris.

Quote:
Mass slow is useful but this is not the winning spell like eg. Steal All Spells.


Thats mostly useless vs ai and monsters.
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BrennusWhiskey
BrennusWhiskey


Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
The quickest H4 player
posted January 02, 2019 09:39 AM

NimoStar said:
Quote:


At least I did not give choppy looking teleportation to Earth Elementals like Equilibris did... but even then, I would never say that's reason not to play Equilibris.




I don't know nothing about teleportation of earth elementals (?)


NimoStar said:
Quote:


Thats mostly useless vs ai and monsters.


Why to play vs ai and monsters? Boring and You will always win.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted January 02, 2019 09:52 AM

Quote:
I don't know nothing about teleportation of earth elementals (?)


In equilibris eatrth elementals teleport. See for yourself.


https://i.postimg.cc/FFLjZKQm/eartg-Untitled.png

I thought a pro player and tournament organizer should knopw that of his beloved equilibris...

Quote:
Why to play vs ai and monsters? Boring and You will always win.


1- Not true in custom map
2- Only way to test your own mod normally
3- Even on multiplayer most fuights will  be vs monster and ai, and very few vs other player

Though im working on the last propblem from a map design pers´pective



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BrennusWhiskey
BrennusWhiskey


Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
The quickest H4 player
posted January 02, 2019 10:01 AM

Well this teleport of earth elementals actually doesn't work as normal teleport, they move for a few squares only.

As for playing vs AI its like playing vs PC in chess on the level 1ooo ELO. Good maybe for kids.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted January 02, 2019 10:25 AM

Quote:
Well this teleport of earth elementals actually doesn't work as normal teleport, they move for a few squares only.


Thats what teleport ability does. It doesnt make unlimited movement. It changes the movement type, just as flying and walking.

Quote:
As for playing vs AI its like playing vs PC in chess on the level 1ooo ELO. Good maybe for kids.


Nobody disputes that AI is dumb. But AI can have many advantages in custom scenarios. Plus it can be more than one. IU would like to see a "pro" player try to defeat 5 allied AI in Impossible difficulty, for example.
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BrennusWhiskey
BrennusWhiskey


Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
The quickest H4 player
posted January 02, 2019 10:37 AM

Personally I prefer good exciting game vs one decent human player.

No need to set up some weird conditions only your and opponent skills decide.

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Ghost
Ghost


Supreme Hero
Therefore I am
posted January 02, 2019 11:12 AM

I still have a harder map. 1% chance of winning the map. But the map still needs an update and the monitor is broken. Later to make that map.
I tell you what's the map. 1 player/comp (Stronghold) vs 1 player/comp (Preserve) vs 1 player/comp (Academy) vs 1 player/comp (Asylum) vs 1 comp (random). Map's name is Mysterious Island*, and size is L or M with underworld. And then the first random comp eats computers in 1-2 months, and I'm final opponent, computer throws my castle. I continue to walk around the map without castle, etc Does it sound good? I tuned map. When I wanted to see AI. Yes map is true 3D0. Easy create to AI. I wasn't been afraid to loss. *When map arrives, you know.
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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted January 03, 2019 12:50 AM
Edited by NimoStar at 00:51, 03 Jan 2019.

Quote:
Personally I prefer good exciting game vs one decent human player.

No need to set up some weird conditions only your and opponent skills decide.


All game campaigns are "setup of weird conditions" and even Chess has this...

I personally have nothuing against multiplayer and love both PvE and PvP modes, and fortunately Heroes 4 has both including the recently rediscovered capability for co-op campaigns.

There are some obstacles to multiplayer that makes not all people be able to use it:
1- Compatibility of installations
2- Internet problems
3- Having a friend to play
4- Coordinate times
etc...


_________________

Ghost, i would like to see your map
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BrennusWhiskey
BrennusWhiskey


Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
The quickest H4 player
posted January 03, 2019 08:45 AM

Quote:
Personally I prefer good exciting game vs one decent human player.

No need to set up some weird conditions only your and opponent skills decide.


All game campaigns are "setup of weird conditions" and even Chess has this...

I personally have nothuing against multiplayer and love both PvE and PvP modes, and fortunately Heroes 4 has both including the recently rediscovered capability for co-op campaigns.

There are some obstacles to multiplayer that makes not all people be able to use it:
1- Compatibility of installations
2- Internet problems
3- Having a friend to play
4- Coordinate times
etc...




Oh come on nobody proposes chess game with 4 Queens against one.  Nothing weird there because both players start with the same positions and with the same strength of pieces.

As for H4 multiplayer there is no problem with compatibility its enough to use Equilibris (3.51). The rest are simple excuses because if you want to find a player you will find him. Here, on Gameranger, on Facebook, in The Kings League, wherever. The only possible problem is waiting for turns, that was killing for me when I started to play. But with the time when you understand how many things you can do in one turn (battles, spying, collecting of resources) I got used to that.

BTW I asked this in the other thread, is it possible to you to do some changes I proposed?

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Ghost
Ghost


Supreme Hero
Therefore I am
posted January 03, 2019 09:03 AM

Also you can play Dragons and Dungeons before Mysterious Island arrives Heroes Portal or maps4heroes. Ok Dragons and Dungeons, AI will less power, when reached a OP heroes, it starts to do strike. But beginning and middle game can play against AI. Ok the best magic school could be one, two or three in Dragons and Dungeons.
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Roman2211
Roman2211


Adventuring Hero
posted January 03, 2019 05:49 PM

Order the best! But Life is best for Barbarian! Chaos is best only in the beginning. Death and Nature only if together.

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BrennusWhiskey
BrennusWhiskey


Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
The quickest H4 player
posted January 03, 2019 06:56 PM

Roman2211 said:
Order the best! But Life is best for Barbarian! Chaos is best only in the beginning. Death and Nature only if together.


You are talking certainly about single-player game?

Because in multiplayer I could show you that every faction is great.

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