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| Thread: Time to balance Logistics specialists? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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int_i
Tavern Dweller
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posted November 10, 2019 11:49 AM |
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bloodsucker said:
@phoenix Can you please stop opening non-sense threads?
If you want to screw your game that's up to you, continue with your "Gameplay changes to..." whenever you want but this is a Trump's idea.
And how is this any more helpful? if he feels it's unbalanced, let him think that. If most agree, someone might do something about it. If not, this thread will die out. Either way, you're working yourself up for nothing.
Personally, I like the ones with logistics specialization. Makes it easier to chase down the enemy when he's running from a fight
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted November 10, 2019 01:14 PM |
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phoenix4ever said:
A Trump's idea?, what does that mean?
Here I am trying to be a hero and save the community from that awful thing known as imbalance, but apparently the community does'nt want to be saved. 
It's too dumb to be called idiotic.
Imbalance makes all sense in Homm III, why would you have Crags and Gunnars picking resources and visiting windmills? Part of the fun is chose the right hero to main and the right one to be in town.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted November 10, 2019 01:35 PM |
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I used to think that balance would make this game better, but HoMM6 proved me wrong. All it does is making the game bland.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted November 10, 2019 01:53 PM |
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zmudziak22 said:
Better would be change up Inferno heroes a bit. Pyre could do with Logistics specialty + either Offense or armorer(replacing artillery because you can not buy ballista in inferno blacksmith).
I agree. 
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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monere
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted November 10, 2019 02:54 PM |
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Doomforge said:
I used to think that balance would make this game better, but HoMM6 proved me wrong. All it does is making the game bland.
I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. Perfectly balanced means bland, like you said, but imbalanced makes the game unplayable, as well. You need to strike the right amount of balance while still allowing people to come up with their own strategies and hero customization.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted November 10, 2019 02:55 PM |
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To me, HotA team is mostly doing a good job. Broken things, like Necro/Conflux, got toned down, allowing them to be picked again. The rest was mostly left unchanged.
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monere
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted November 10, 2019 03:43 PM |
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have you seen someone defeating Castle with the "fixed" Conflux? If you have, can you please post a link? I'd really like to see how it's possible to defeat the 9ayest town ever with the weakest town ever
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Hourglass
Supreme Hero
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posted November 10, 2019 09:18 PM |
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Honestly the best idea would be to just give them flat bonus. Changing them to something they never were isn't the way to go imo. I think the fair way to balance them would be to give them like +10% bonus to their logistic skill, and nothing more. It sounds small, but that's around 1-2 tiles extra per day, which adds up. Also, they all start with Logistics, which is also a big thing by its own. If we would change them to have something like a +50% flat increase, that would be even more op than they are now.
I understand that some people think this would be a boring change, but at least you would have wider pool of heroes with same lvl of power, which isn't the case with these heroes right now.
I also get that some are irritated by these topics (who would make these changes, and to which platform?), but personally I approve, HC would be lot more silent without your threads.
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RerryR
Promising
Supreme Hero
Researching Magic
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posted November 10, 2019 10:04 PM |
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Flat bonus is mega boring, for me playing Heroes 3 is also about developing a hero who gets more and more powerful with each level.
The only reasonable approach here is not in nerfing Logistics specialists but rather to bring the other heroes and skills up, so its worth picking them. That's the core of the problem.
And to answer your question Hourglass, the only platform you can archive this in a reasonable amount of time is ERA.
I also like phoenix4ever threads 
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Zaio-Baio
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted November 11, 2019 12:00 AM |
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phoenix4ever said:
Kyrre: Centaurs (Starting amount could be lowered, if this hero could be considered too powerful a starter.)
Gunnar: Medusas (Alternatively throw Gunnar out and enable Mutare instead, she perhaps fits better with medusas?)
Dessa: Since he is a magic hero and already starts with Stone Skin, he would be perfect for having Stone Skin as a specialty.
So what do you think of the above?
I think it doesnt matter Even with those changes i would still not allow my opponent to pick those heroes in a ranked hota game. Starting with logistics is simply too strong. Multiplayer games are all about getting to the rich middle zone 1st. And 1st in the middle is usually the one with logs and mass slow. And having logistics will not only let you go before your opponent in the middle zone, but also let you move 30% more there and visit 30% more creature banks, 30% more utopias, 30% more stats boosters, getting town portal and Dim door 30% faster and so on. Its really hard to balance. In the hands of an experienced player log born heroes are very strong.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted November 11, 2019 01:45 AM |
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bloodsucker said:
Imbalance makes all sense in Homm III
Doomforge said:
I used to think that balance would make this game better, but HoMM6 proved me wrong. All it does is making the game bland.
Yup. Imbalance and luck contributes a huge part of what made this series so enjoyable for so many players, imo. Remove these elements and it gets all too predictable. I get more thrill winning by adapting to unexpected situations than just do a zero mistake rush.
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Otuken
Famous Hero
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posted November 11, 2019 02:15 PM |
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Edited by Otuken at 14:16, 11 Nov 2019.
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It would be better making other specialists (espeicaly creature ones) better therefore making Log specialsts relatively less powerful considering you already downgraded their speciality to %3.
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted November 13, 2019 03:24 AM |
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Even if 1 person loves the release and 9 hates it, it is still a sucess, because that's 1 person¿'s experience you have improved, while the other 9 people will just play the vainilla game, and thus you woudn't have deteriorated their game.
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Never changing = never improving
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Revolut1oN
Famous Hero
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posted November 16, 2019 02:00 AM |
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monere said:
have you seen someone defeating Castle with the "fixed" Conflux? If you have, can you please post a link? I'd really like to see how it's possible to defeat the 9ayest town ever with the weakest town ever
Obviously Conflux is still the strongest town in multiplayer, everybody pays the most to play them 
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Oddball13579
Supreme Hero
Grandmaster of the Hunt
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posted November 16, 2019 03:54 AM |
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Galaad said:
bloodsucker said:
Imbalance makes all sense in Homm III
Yup. Imbalance and luck contributes a huge part of what made this series so enjoyable for so many players, imo. Remove these elements and it gets all too predictable. I get more thrill winning by adapting to unexpected situations than just do a zero mistake rush.
Finally someone is speaking my language!
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"Just slide her down a bit farther. I could wear her like a hat." - Gnomes
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zmudziak22
Supreme Hero
Heroes 3 Fan
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posted November 17, 2019 07:18 PM |
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Revolut1oN said:
monere said:
have you seen someone defeating Castle with the "fixed" Conflux? If you have, can you please post a link? I'd really like to see how it's possible to defeat the 9ayest town ever with the weakest town ever
Obviously Conflux is still the strongest town in multiplayer, everybody pays the most to play them
Also HotA introduced Red Tower Creature Banks, so you can farm Phoenixes in same way as Castle can farm Angels from Griffin Conservatories. Also Tower get power boost with Golems CB, so you can farm Giants from these.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted November 17, 2019 07:44 PM |
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I'm not sure if adding more creature banks in a creature bank meta was the best move for HOTA in the first place.
Creature bank meta is boring and stale.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted November 17, 2019 09:58 PM |
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Doomforge said:
Creature bank meta is boring and stale.
I agree 100%.
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted November 18, 2019 04:15 AM |
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Anyways besides my "Publish the mod" posts, these threads would go in the heroes 3.5 forum, instead of the vainilla heroesw forum. That one is for modding.
I sure would hope we had a "heroes 4.5 modding forum" for HOMM IV like you do...
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Never changing = never improving
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Orc
Famous Hero
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posted November 25, 2019 11:08 PM |
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Edited by Orc at 00:03, 26 Nov 2019.
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You Forgot Pyre of inferno & Monere of the conflux 
on serious note though: No pls, they do not have that many useful heroes to begin with. leave it be.
also, im pretty sure you know how wog balanced them ; giving them less stats than other overlords etc.
also, creature specialists are useless, tottally. I cant play any hero without a speciallty, its not fun (creature is a non-specialty)
monere said:
phoenix... changing the bonuses that logistics gives to the specialists is not bad (I actually welcome this idea). But you want to completely replace this specialty with something else, which is undesirable, especially now that - as I understood - there is a bigger size of the maps?
If that's true, logistics specialists are more needed than ever since everyone wants to reduce the time that a PvP game takes, and the simplest way to do that is to play log specialists. In accordance with this idea I think that keeping at least 3 heroes is not only welcome, but actually needed. If you want to add a log specialist for each town is still better than removing logistics as a specialty altogether. But honestly, 10 logistic specialists is too much in my opinion. Three (ok, make it 4, just for the fun of adding one more) log specialists is really the sweet spot for the classic version of HoMM (the one in which there is no Giant map size).
Last but not least, I agree with nimostar that you should make this mod (if it's indeed a mod) available to all of us since you've been working on it for years but no one has seen it yet. If you're making changes to the core game based on our feedback at least give us a piece of the cake
doesnt WoG have a script to double movement already?
phoenix4ever said:
With the proposed changes Kyrre, Gunnar and Dessa would still start with Logistics and be good heroes, but not completely unbalanced like now.
Well I would like to share my mod with you, but honestly I think some people are gonna hate it.
Why?, because it makes the game a lot harder and longer/slower. TP always takes you to nearest town, while AI can go anywhere. DD is only 1 time a day.
Still I personally think this makes the game much more fun, challenging and less random.
This spell is either banned or I never use it (self ban) what else does your mod do to make game slower? perhaps there is something interesting to it.
monere said:
but simply because I am too stubborn (I have only been playing WoG my entire life, even though HotA is the new HoMM craze, I didn't even have the curiosity to try HotA),
Anyway, the point was to just post the mod for people to try and see if they like it.
HotA is not worth playing without WoG. WoG is superior in every which way, except the scouting skill change
anyway, I thought fenix has eraII mod, or is it some mod completely independent than wog?
zmudziak22 said:
Better would be change up Inferno heroes a bit. Pyre could do with Logistics specialty + either Offense or armorer(replacing artillery because you can not buy ballista in inferno blacksmith).
in my Wog Pyre is specialist in both ballista and logistics
bloodsucker said:
@phoenix Can you please stop opening non-sense threads?
If you want to screw your game that's up to you, continue with your "Gameplay changes to..." whenever you want but this is a Trump's idea.
but then who will listen to my thoughts
Drakon-Deus said:
zmudziak22 said:
Better would be change up Inferno heroes a bit. Pyre could do with Logistics specialty + either Offense or armorer(replacing artillery because you can not buy ballista in inferno blacksmith).
I agree.
Someone has already done that I think. Here in the forums
Doomforge said:
To me, HotA team is mostly doing a good job. Broken things, like Necro/Conflux, got toned down, allowing them to be picked again. The rest was mostly left unchanged.
it aint a good job until its integrated/compatable with WoG.
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