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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Inferno and Dungeon BlackSmith
Thread: Inferno and Dungeon BlackSmith This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
Orc
Orc


Famous Hero
posted December 06, 2019 08:32 PM

Inferno and Dungeon BlackSmith

Hello,

Dungeon have 2 strong archers, while inferno only has weak archer. Intuitively, i would think dungeon needs more ammo than inferno.

why inferno is the one that has ammo cart while dungeon has ballista?

shouldnt it be the other way?
if we compare this to the good towns, look its Ice town that has ammo cart, with 3 archers. it certainly fits there. for the evil towns, dungeon needs it the most.

so I thought about it a little bit and here are some reasons I discoverd:

1-) Designers wanted medusa to attack in melee for petrify...
2-) to encourage cooperation between Evil towns, so every team will buy what the other needs (but why does it have to be the Evil towns, if anything it should be the good towns that mismatch, but then again good towns are easier to play while Necro and Inferno demoning needs some brains)





what do you think?

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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted December 06, 2019 08:41 PM
Edited by Phoenix4ever at 20:42, 06 Dec 2019.

I agree Inferno and Dungeon should switch war machines, Inferno have no use for the Ammo Cart, but Dungeon can use it.
Castle and Necropolis should also switch, it makes no sense that undead have a First Aid Tent and clerics don't! Necroheroes can't even learn First Aid and clerics have the highest chance, it also fits better for a good and evil town.

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Orc
Orc


Famous Hero
posted December 07, 2019 05:37 AM
Edited by Orc at 05:38, 07 Dec 2019.

Phoenix4ever said:

Castle and Necropolis should also switch, it makes no sense that undead have a First Aid Tent and clerics don't! Necroheroes can't even learn First Aid and clerics have the highest chance, it also fits better for a good and evil town.



you have a point. though there is more to it:

1-) if you notice First aid always fits the towns theme. (Look at rampart and Fortress). it also fits the Necro theme (or maybe becuz I got used to it too much I found it fitting? )

2-) the game designers vowed that Each faction, Good, Neutral and Evil all have access to all war machines.

Forest is Aid, Snow is Ammo, that leaves Ballista for humans.

Fire and dungeon has ammo and ballista, that leaves First Aid for Necro.

Fortress and Strong hold also have 3 war machines. (Conflux didnt need to exist)

3-) First aid fits clerics, that may be true, but Ballista fits knights. why would you favor clerics over knights? tbh game designers might have thought of making ballista yard for humans but they were OP already and so were striped this little advantage.

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Otuken
Otuken


Known Hero
posted December 07, 2019 04:19 PM

I liked this. Any way to download your mod?

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Orc
Orc


Famous Hero
posted December 07, 2019 06:13 PM
Edited by Orc at 18:22, 07 Dec 2019.

Otuken said:
I liked this. Any way to download your mod?


Perhaps you wante to post this in your Conflux inferno thread? no one is talking about any mod in this thread :|
Why Inferno Conflux Lack OP Heroes

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Deadly_Dave
Deadly_Dave

Tavern Dweller
posted December 12, 2019 10:54 PM

Very interesting
____________

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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted August 28, 2020 11:28 PM

So I had a little chat with wojtulace about Inferno and Dungeon switching war machines and we both thought it would be a good idea, since Inferno has no use for an Ammo Cart, but Dungeon does.
I have thought about this before, but have'nt taken the step yet, but perhaps I will.
I also wish there was a way to switch Castle and Necro war machines, but sadly Castle's war machine is connected to Stronghold's Ballista Yard...
What do you guys think about towns and their war machines?

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BTB
BTB


Known Hero
posted August 29, 2020 01:11 AM

I swapped Dungeon and Inferno as well as Necropolis and Conflux.

And I also made First Aid a standard starting skill for Clerics, so they all start with First Aid Tents. And war machines aren't lost when destroyed in my hack, so that mostly solves it, I think.

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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted August 29, 2020 07:48 AM
Edited by Phoenix4ever at 07:50, 29 Aug 2020.

BTB said:
And war machines aren't lost when destroyed in my hack, so that mostly solves it, I think.

Hmm does this mean that even if they are destroyed in battle, you still have them after battle? (Like Catapult)
How did you make this change?

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BTB
BTB


Known Hero
posted August 29, 2020 08:01 AM

; ------------
; War Machines
; ------------

0D94D0: 55 > C2 ; Don't remove from inventory if destroyed in combat
0D94D1: 8B > 04 ; ""
0D94D2: EC > 00 ; ""

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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted August 29, 2020 08:10 AM

Thanks, I will try that later today.
Can you post the Inferno <-> Dungeon switch as well?

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Lisa1812
Lisa1812

Tavern Dweller
posted August 29, 2020 08:49 AM - penalty applied by Maurice on 09 Sep 2020.
Edited by Maurice at 13:52, 09 Sep 2020.

I like to spam!
____________

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BTB
BTB


Known Hero
posted August 29, 2020 08:56 AM

; ---------
; Ammo Cart
; ---------

242EB4: 92 > 94 ; Ballista -> Ammo Cart (Dungeon)

1C3254: 78 > 88 ; Inferno -> Dungeon
1C3259: 7C > 8C ; ""

; --------------
; First-Aid Tent
; --------------

242EC0: 92 > 93 ; Ballista -> First Aid Tent (Conflux)

1C325F: 80 > A0 ; Necropolis -> Conflux
1C3264: 84 > A4 ; ""

; --------
; Ballista
; --------

242EAC: 94 > 92 ; Ammo Cart -> Ballista (Inferno)
242EB0: 93 > 92 ; First Aid Tent -> Ballista (Necropolis)

1C326A: 88 > 78 ; Dungeon -> Inferno
1C3273: 8C > 7C ; ""

1C328F: A0 > 80 ; Conflux -> Necropolis
1C3298: A4 > 84 ; ""

2745E4: 04 > 00 ; Tier 5 -> 1 (affects Artillery specialties)

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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted August 29, 2020 09:13 AM

Thank you.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted September 10, 2020 07:13 AM
Edited by NimoStar at 07:14, 10 Sep 2020.

First aid tent is perfect for Necropolis.

Read the town heroes history. Necropolis is a radical healer faction, many necromancers are exile clerics tha wanted to take healing "too far". It also fits resurrection topic. And it is specially designed as a "Mad scientist lab".

If anything, Necromancers learning first aid would be the actual "fit".

Personally I like that Dungeon has the ballista as well. Allows medusa to use their petrification, yes, but that is not all: it also make the "No melee penalty" on Beholders matter, as well as the limited amount of shots.
____________
https://www.moddb.com/mods/greatest-mod

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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted September 10, 2020 07:51 AM

So you want "Undead Clerics" to use First Aid, but not actual Clerics?
Also note how Clerics have the highest chance at learning First Aid, but Necro heroes can't learn it at all.
Something is wrong with this design...

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Ghost
Ghost


Legendary Hero
Therefore I am
posted September 10, 2020 06:11 PM

I think Dungeon uses hit & run. OP Harpy Hags and/with ballista. Necropolis' Vampire Lords and/with first aid also gives hit & run, etc How I think so? I researched H4. Why Preserve (Rampart/Conflux) gets Potion of Mana? When it belonged to Asylum (Dungeon/Fortress). Now it know Preserve uses a lot of summon, hit & run and friendship with another alliance.

Hm what you think about Archangel, first aid and resurrection in trick against neutral? 3DO thought first aid skill, and ballista to town. And you see Necropolis. I think so.
____________
Fight MWMs - stand teach

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted September 11, 2020 04:14 PM

Quote:
So you want "Undead Clerics" to use First Aid, but not actual Clerics?
Also note how Clerics have the highest chance at learning First Aid, but Necro heroes can't learn it at all.
Something is wrong with this design...


I told you that I would give them the chance to learn it. And yes, tht's what wronmg with the design, that Necro heroes don't learn it, not that Necro town has it. Ballista doesn't make sense for necropolis.

But in any case, I would give every town the ability to build all weapons of war, since to begin with all except ammo cart are extremely cost inefficient. It would not be hard in ERA I think since it's just replacing the normal building of every town for the Stronghold specific building (in code, appearance can still be unchanged).

To compensate for this the Stronghold bonus that can already do that would have something like 25%-50% cost reduction, but this is secondary, it could be just a cheaper structure if that's too hard to program.

____________
https://www.moddb.com/mods/greatest-mod

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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted September 11, 2020 04:25 PM

But at the moment First Aid is a crappy skill anyway, so Necro heroes should be happy they don't have to worry about getting that.
I don't know why Ballista would'nt fit Necro, Vokial would be happy if he could buy a Ballista, there is also Ranloo in HotA, but he at least starts with a Ballista.
But yeah all towns having all war machines is also an idea.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted September 11, 2020 05:12 PM

Quote:
But at the moment First Aid is a crappy skill anyway, so Necro heroes should be happy they don't have to worry about getting that.


But "at the moment" (without HotA) Necropolis is also the most OP town of the game so we should be happy to see them nerfed some, even if it is on a very subtle way.

Anyways First Aid could be improved as it was many times.

Vokial is already a good hero due to his specialty.

And the graphic of Necropoilis is obviously for making First Aid and not ballistae (a blood lab)

Yet I agree that he should have acess to ballista if his spoecialty is not changed, thus my proposal for all war machines.

ANother alternative: Supress starting Wights and Zombies from his troops and give him starting ballista. This should be easy to do.
____________
https://www.moddb.com/mods/greatest-mod

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