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Heroes Community > Heroes 7+ Altar of Wishes > Thread: Faction Recreation Contest #5: Dungeon
Thread: Faction Recreation Contest #5: Dungeon This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · «PREV
Mystic_Genie
Mystic_Genie


Adventuring Hero
posted November 22, 2020 01:46 PM

I was away for the weekend so I was honestly expecting things to have been wrapped up already. If the offer is still up morrow after work I'll keep iterating on my entry.

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted November 22, 2020 11:54 PM

Dang it I won't be able to participate after all this time around, don't wait on me.
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PandaTar
PandaTar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
posted November 23, 2020 02:39 AM

@MG, tune it on then.

@Galaad, so focus on the next one. o/
____________
"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
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Mystic_Genie
Mystic_Genie


Adventuring Hero
posted November 23, 2020 01:46 PM
Edited by Mystic_Genie at 13:52, 23 Nov 2020.

Thank you for your patience. I think I'm good to go.

There is obviously more stuff I could add, but I got all the key stuff I wanted out of the way which makes me happy.

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Alon
Alon


Known Hero
posted November 23, 2020 07:04 PM

I'm good to go, let's score and move on to the stronghold? I have A LOT of lore about that specifically.

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PandaTar
PandaTar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
posted November 23, 2020 07:12 PM

For me, ok either way. I won't finish that Townscreen in time. It was too troublesome to find a proper setting. And I got lazy.
____________
"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
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Rimgrabber
Rimgrabber


Famous Hero
It's a fixer-upper
posted November 23, 2020 10:24 PM

I'll submit my proposal tonight and we can start scoring tomorrow?

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PandaTar
PandaTar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
posted November 23, 2020 10:25 PM

Sure thing.
____________
"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS Portal 2

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Rimgrabber
Rimgrabber


Famous Hero
It's a fixer-upper
posted November 24, 2020 08:09 PM

Scoring begins now. 5 days enough time?

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Alon
Alon


Known Hero
posted November 25, 2020 04:07 AM

Scoring

The dungeon's role in the franchise is kind of weird. It's always there, but what it is changes, so there's lots of room for originality. It's tempting to make it the generic monsters town, but there are way more options for monsters than the 7-10 units people have, so I look for some kind of theme. I also dock points for D&D derivatives - you could fill more than one town just with monsters that Gary Gygax et al invented, but if I wanted that, I'd just play D&D. I try to be tolerant of people who mix mythologies (djieien!) even if I like sticking to the broad Mediterranean, but too much D&D is weird.

PandaTar

I really like the pitfalls that portray underground exploration. The H3 underground layer feels so lacking, and this beefs it up a lot.

The theme is otherwise kind of weird. I like the various mythological creatures fitting together: djieien, pyrausta, minotaur, medusa. But there's so much derivative stuff, especially the illithid (copyrighted by WotC, to the point of the copyright being a running gag on Order of the Stick). And I think the aglaophotis is only an actual monster in Final Fantasy?

Some of these ideas work well - the non-animal-sourced ones, like the aglaophotis and the giant mycena are really cool. And I especially like not making it the dragon town it is in so many depictions, including mine.

So, overall, 8/10.

Jiriki

The greed system is really nice, as is the idea of the relic hunter. Usually I think of the dungeon as a static antagonist town that the heroes steal treasure from, but you're doing a lot to answer the question, how did they get so much treasure to begin with?

It's one of these proposals that I think should be 9.5-10, but I'm only giving it an 8, first of all because it's incomplete, and second of all because the lineup is D&D-y. But it's such a good concept that I should steal it, just with a more thematic lineup.

Rimgrabber

I don't get why you think this is not good, the dungeon-as-mad-science concept is really cool. I even appreciate certain aspects of the lineup, like that dragons are not color-coded, and I always like seeing the lamia rear its head .

Not sure how to score it, but I'm thinking 8/10.

Mystic Genie

Welcome!

I like what you're doing with the combo of creatures and magic, especially the special buildings and the scroll system. It can make for some interesting strategic choices, creating a new kind of resource for players to manage. I may steal this when we get to the academy, or retcon it as general macro.

I also think it's a cool lineup - it feels a bit like the H4 asylum with the bandits. The color-coded dragons are slightly annoying, but everything else fits really well.

Overall, 9/10.

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PandaTar
PandaTar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
posted November 25, 2020 07:46 AM
Edited by PandaTar at 07:47, 25 Nov 2020.

Oh, Aglaophotis's idea came when I was looking for something to fit the artwork, when I was selecting it. I went for some sort of ... 'evil/dark herb' or something of that ilk, running into the herb said to be used for occultism or to summon demons. Hence the name; some FF plant-like enemies are usually named Mandrakes, Mandragoras, Rafflesias, but I don't recall seeing Aglaophotis. Perhaps on some older entries? As for D&D, to be honest, I have never sit down and read anything on D&D. I just know some creatures come from there. Mind Flayers I just knew they were originally from D&D long after I first faced them in Final Fantasy Tactics. That's why I don't bother or mind if people here use such creatures in their line up. I feel like they are already a part of culture considering they are so widely known in a varied set of games and stories, even if you have never set eyes on a D&D Monster Manual of kinds.

Yo, so scoring now!

ALON 8 points
    Regarding heroes and skills, I am always in favor of making heroes really active upon the battlefield, whichever mechanics used, as long as not too overpowered. As far as I can see, things feel plausible and pleasant. I personally don't fancy single race/species controlled factions, but I disregarded that.
    For buildings, it looks ok-ish, considering presenting things that are mostly bound to appear, I thought you could come up with something else worth mentioning instead.
    For units, I'm not entirely convinced of some units and their role in the midst of a dragon-ruled society, and as much as I saw fit some merge of Fortress and Dungeon itself, I think you could have come up with something less dependable on them. I acknowledge their roles and use, but some of them still feel pretty out of place or ditched there (lamia could help some, as you pondered about).
    For notes, it helps elucidating a bit about Dungeon role. I still prefer a lot more your other ideas. This one felt ... lacking a bit, probably because of these dragons and all the limiting factor they imposed upon your line up choices.


Jiriqi9 7 points
    Starting minus 5 points for So, on to Rampart." =P
    But there's quite a bit of things missing of scoring content regrettably. =(
    Regarding heroes and skills, I was reading your Gaunab hero, it hints of attacking and becoming enraged, could attack anything nearby. I don't recall you ever proposing heroes on the battlefield. So I assume Overlords have different mechanics? Or it just means they'll target anything randomly on the battlefield following mechanics of H5, for example? I like Relic Hunter detail. And do Like the Greed System. Feels like giving a lot of options on playstyle.
    Regarding units, it's a pity a lot is unfinished, because I liked all what was done, especially those with actions added other than just fighting, but improving equipment, for example. Siege troop is nice.
    Regarding buildings ... well, it lacks information/flavor, I guess? And no Grail created either.
    Additional, I'll give a bonus on the campaign, considering it was well-thought and detailed.
    I hope next time you'll be able to have time to complete your proposition, especially after I liked your Rampart version very much. So, until next time.


Rimgrabber 8 points
    Everyone seemed to have problems in rl during Dungeon round, so nothing to apologize for. It's also just a friendly interaction. I think all of us are aware we could cook up something fresher or whole if we had proper conditions for that. Besides, as far as I could see, all scoring parts are present and complete, at least.
    Regarding heroes and skills, the setting is pretty straightforward, ok, but nothing outstanding. I like those heroes on a whole sense, aside heroes such as Lethos, who might feel underwhelming with that sort of specialization.
    Regarding units, I feel the general idea fits ok what you have proposed, even if it is less detailed than before, it explains what it's needed. Although the units, somehow, feel odd mixed together, that might have been the intention to begin with.
    Regarding buildings, I'm ok with those. I especially like the Leech Pit. It's simple and quite nice (might steal it HOHOHO).


Mystic Genie 8 points
    Glad you could join us. Hope you'll stay around for the next rounds too, as there are quite of them yet.
    Overall mechanics and added information, it feels pleasant, even if considering using old mechanics of old games. I don't consider a penalty when they drift back, but I consider bonus when they appease my likeness while doing that.
    Regarding heroes and skills, they have a very traditional feeling about their origins, but their unique trait is interesting, and all the perks along with them; besides, they are very set on their roles as fighters and spell casters.
    Regarding units, they are pretty much standard and traditional, imho. You could have the same line up with a different mix of abilities, even roles, to make it feel less like what's already existing, you see. The only thing that would prompt me to test that line up is due their interaction with hero's unique traits. But I believe you can come up with something on the next faction with less restraints upon your proposed line up.
    Regarding buildings, I liked them on their use and simplicity, adding some flexibility upon machinery used, and enforcing the stealth-aura about the whole concept.
    One suggestion on the whole is: you can go a bit more exotic and less tied to the old settings, so to avoid being too similar to them, aside from being traditional, you see. But for a first proposition, it fairs ok.


Fire Paladin a panda bro-fist


Galaad homemade bamboo cookies



I could host the next round, if everyone agrees with that. I still have some spare time every now and then which allows me to attend to this. No problem.
____________
"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS Portal 2

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Mystic_Genie
Mystic_Genie


Adventuring Hero
posted November 26, 2020 03:10 PM
Edited by Mystic_Genie at 16:05, 27 Nov 2020.

Ok I think I'll abstain from scoring since I'm too new at this. So I'll settle for observations.

PandaTar There is a lot going on with your town. Heroes potentially unlocking buildings while in town, as well as certain units disallowing others, made it pretty hard for me to get a grasp of the overall faction composition.  

Correct me if I'm wrong but will the faction have no tier 4 units if you pick Djieien? Or is the Undying an alternate branch to a Forsaken rather than an upgrade?

That said, it does allow for multiple permutations of one town, which is cool, and if I am reading this right it allows for dynamic number of units per tier, which I like. It's a concept I wanted to use but struggled to find the right balance when I experimented with it on conflux.

I may use your hero's race influencing town to a lesser extent, perhaps having them increase production of certain dwellings if they are the towns governor.

Also, props to you on having the lore down both in terms of the past and the future events. It ties the races nicely together even though you will have a lot of renaming to do if you ever publish any of this.

Alon Another entry with active heroes, that's awesome!

On a less superficial note, making the heroes be entirely composed of dragons and just leaning into that every facet of the town  not only gives it strong theming, but it also makes the faction composition intuitive, which I adore.

I especially like how you flavored the more cowardly mechanics as being completely logical from the point of view of the dragons. It's an application of pride that I don't see enough of.

Jiriki9
The greed mechanics are by far my favorite part of your proposal. Greed for Power I especially love, and will definitely co opt it if I ever have the chance.

The town defenses changing with the terrain is also a nice touch. It's a simple but clever ways to make 2 towns feel different from one another without having to majorly alter the tech tree.

Rimgrabber
Getting major H5 academy vibes with your faction which I did not expect in the slightest. I'm even more surprised how seamlessly the transition took place and how little it affected the unit compositions.

It's also nice to see the Cockatrice represented in a faction. It didn't cross my mind how easily they would fit in a dungeon lineup till now.



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PandaTar
PandaTar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
posted November 26, 2020 03:32 PM

Hello, MG.

I suggest you take a look upon the past contests to get a better grasp upon the previous proposals, and a better grasp of 'our styles', so you may get used to them a bit. My proposals tend to be like that, a lot of things to digest, because I usually don't fancy much the old mechanics anymore, and some of them, imho, can be tweaked or implemented in more varied ways. I feel like heroes are only too much like vessels carrying armies, a statue in battle which occasionally cast a spell, you see. The idea is making them really active everywhere, on the battlefield, at towns or at exploring, having unique effects and each hero, having unique-unique effects, hohohohoho.

Regarding the question of tier, Tier in my proposals is mainly for reference. There are factions with more lv 1 tier units, or lv 6. Some might not have anything past tier 7. Some Ultimate units might have a lower tier than another hireling in town too. Forsaken and Undying are upgrade one of the other in that case, but there are situations in which it differs, presenting different nuances of a same unit depending on what has been built. Pyrausta, for example, have three different races in a single hiring pool, two of which have upgrades. And, in my proposals, upgrades are sort of metamorphosis. So you can't upgrade back to another thing. A lot of units wield equipment, though, which is an 'upgrade' of sorts in a less fundamental scale.

And no, not going to publish stuff. It's just a fan-made hobby.
____________
"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS Portal 2

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Rimgrabber
Rimgrabber


Famous Hero
It's a fixer-upper
posted November 27, 2020 02:08 AM

PandaTar - Excellent as always! I especially like the Chapel of Stilled Voices' unique mechanic of petrifying heroes. Did not enjoy the purposeful misspelling of Darkstorm's name, you heretic. -1000000 points. Troops are horrifying and bizarre, as Dungeon troops should be. 1000000 points restored. Overall, 9/10. I appreciate you offering to host the stronghold round, thanks.

Alon - I really like the hierarchy system you set up here, and the idea of dragons as heroes. My only issue is that dragon heroes being the only ones directly participating in battle is a bit OP, especially with the Warren, but that's not what this contest is about. Overall, 7/10

Jiriki9 - I really, really like the greed skill a lot. The lineup is cool, but unfortunately not quite finished. No big deal, life happens. 6.5/10

Mystic_Genie - Welcome! I see you're basing your proposals at least partially off of H4 mechanics, which is neat. That game doesn't get enough love. Line-up seems mostly borrowed from other games, but not in a bad way. Gameplay stills seems interesting, abilities are neat, creatures work well together. 7/10

Does anyone else still need to score?


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PandaTar
PandaTar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
posted November 27, 2020 03:24 AM

Jiriqi9 is missing yet and MG is still to complete his observations.
____________
"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS Portal 2

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Mystic_Genie
Mystic_Genie


Adventuring Hero
posted November 27, 2020 04:06 PM

Think I got everyone on my end.

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Jiriki9
Jiriki9


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
posted November 28, 2020 12:58 PM

I will only be giving scores for now, I hope that's ok. Just not so much time these days, to put things into correct words...

PandaTar: 9 points

Alon: 7 points

RimGrabber: 8 points

Mystic Genie: 7 points

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PandaTar
PandaTar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
posted November 28, 2020 04:37 PM

Right, then.

Final Scores:

Panda Tar
8 + 9 + 9 => 8.67

Alon
8 + 7 + 7 => 7.34

Jiriqi9
8 + 7 + 6.5 => 7.17

Rimgrabber
8 + 8 + 8 => 8

Mystic_Genie
9 + 8 + 7 + 7 => 7.75

And let's move on to Stronghold. I'll open the thread now.
____________
"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS Portal 2

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