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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Spellcasting dendroid soldiers
Thread: Spellcasting dendroid soldiers This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
NimoStar
NimoStar


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted June 19, 2021 09:46 AM
Edited by NimoStar at 09:46, 19 Jun 2021.

Spellcasting dendroid soldiers

So, apparently this is a thing and is in the game's sprites



Too bad no mod ever used the animation... yet? That I know of?

But it must not be too late. Dendroid soldiers, rise up!

Maybe this could be used to bind enemies for a turn at a distance?
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Baronus
Baronus


Promising
Legendary Hero
posted June 19, 2021 10:20 AM

Maybe :
Dendroid soldier - paralize attacked unit.
Dendroid guard - paralize all units around.

Willnbe good to have it in H4.

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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 19, 2021 10:30 AM

Huh I did'nt know there was a casting animation for dendroids, that's interesting.

It's weird mages and liches can't cast spells though.

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Barbuta
Barbuta


Adventuring Hero
posted June 19, 2021 12:11 PM

Phoenix4ever said:
Huh I did'nt know there was a casting animation for dendroids, that's interesting.

It's weird mages and liches can't cast spells though.


What do you mean? They are casting spells - it's their attack
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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 19, 2021 12:55 PM
Edited by Phoenix4ever at 12:58, 19 Jun 2021.

I meant stuff like Slow, Weakness or Fireball or maybe they could have a chance to apply a random negative spell when attacking in melee.

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Pol
Pol


Known Hero
.^.
posted June 19, 2021 12:55 PM

Maybe I can ask Greg Fulton, perhaps he will remember. Collecting questions for him, one more is always welcomed.

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Baronus
Baronus


Promising
Legendary Hero
posted June 19, 2021 01:16 PM

It looks like snow. Ice bolt probably.

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted June 19, 2021 03:01 PM

I'm amazed this wasn't discovered yet.
It looks cool

Pol said:
Maybe I can ask Greg Fulton, perhaps he will remember. Collecting questions for him, one more is always welcomed.


Yes, go directly to the source
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Gandalf196
Gandalf196


Disgraceful
Supreme Hero
posted June 19, 2021 03:40 PM

Dendroid Soothsayer
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NimoStar
NimoStar


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted June 19, 2021 10:11 PM

Insterestingly this doesn't appear in Dendroid Guards, only upgraded ones have it confirming the spellcasting was upgrade-only (would have given them something different to do)
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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 19, 2021 10:48 PM

I guess they changed their mind and found out casting "Entangle" would be OP and yeah it probably would be, if they could just cast it on behemoths, hydras etc.
But it would have made the upgrade different and better.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted June 20, 2021 12:25 AM
Edited by NimoStar at 00:26, 20 Jun 2021.

If it would only last a turn and usable only once a combat (like most creature spells) it woudn't be OP IMO. However it could be frustrating to the opponent.

Also, Hydras and Behemoths would have the first turn before the dendroids, as would most creatures, so this would mostly work for the second turn only.

Could be good to protect the Elves, which are normally ganged upon as soon as possible (and thus being the only ranged Rampart unit, the archery skill of rangers barely helps at all)
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Ancientdruids
Ancientdruids


Known Hero
(Andruids for short)
posted June 20, 2021 12:35 AM
Edited by Ancientdruids at 00:35, 20 Jun 2021.

There is a number of creatures which have unused casting animation in h3:
- Dendroid Soldiers,
- Dread Knights,
- Cyclops Kings,
- Minotaur Kings,
- Zealots,
- Vampire Lords,
- Harpy Hags,
- War Unicorns,
- Both Efreeti,
- Both Basilisks,
- Both Beholders,

This fact has been known for a long time now and used in some mods, e.g. in my Creatures' Hidden Potential for VCMI.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted June 20, 2021 09:45 AM

Hmmm I see. In part, that's what I wanted to hear! Too bad for VCMI seeing that there is a lot of road for that yet, but what does your mod make of Dendroid Soldier casting?
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Ancientdruids
Ancientdruids


Known Hero
(Andruids for short)
posted June 20, 2021 11:26 AM

'Siege Bind' - When dendroid soldiers defend in a siege, they stop the catapult from shooting in the first turn of combat.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted June 20, 2021 12:48 PM

mmmhmhmeh,
I mean, congratulations on getting it programmed, I guess it's creative as well,

but on the other hand, extremely niche, not very impactful and doesn't actually use the turn or have player intervention. Would have made it a castable ability with "disable any war machine for next turn" to have something similar.

Well, all my energy is on modding H4 so can't do that myself :'v, but keep fightin' the mod fight
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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 20, 2021 02:03 PM

Ancientdruids said:

- Dread Knights,
- Cyclops Kings,
- Minotaur Kings,
- Zealots,
- Vampire Lords,
- Harpy Hags,
- War Unicorns,
- Both Efreeti,
- Both Basilisks,
- Both Beholders,

I wonder what all these creatures were supposed to cast...

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Ghost
Ghost


Legendary Hero
Therefore I am
posted June 20, 2021 07:03 PM
Edited by Ghost at 19:06, 20 Jun 2021.

If you want be real stats. Ok be shorty.

Minotaur is a weak, but always be the first kill a some in a labyrinth. When Minotaur hid and surprised the adventurer. 3DO gave a moral but H4 is different. It means first strike, negative first strike and luck.

Cyclops is strong as a what, but weak to blind, forgetfulness and song. Cyclops throws a rock at the ship goes sink. Cyclop also jumps caused a little earthquake, if people walk and attack at cyclop. 3DO gave wall attacker or in H4 area attacker. Both agreed. It means cyclop should be both also strong ranged defense and ranged attacker. A poor melee but strong melee defense also hp. No spell caster and immune. It passes.

Vampire is strong, when blood sucker, hypnotizes the women, the first surprise, summon imps, immune to mirror and searches life of eternal. But weak to light spells, wolves and the sun. WoG vampires have hypnotize or no relatite in HoMM. Ok vampires should also worked with Elixir, because they search for eternal life also immune to Magic Mirror. Then more 50% damage from light spell. Fun yes, vampire should have earth immune or death ward. Because summon imps, vitality at the night and battle with wolves.

Such a literaty, dictionary or movie showed them. Other I don't know, I know one evil white horse is a magician being, but it isn't Unicorn. Ok

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted June 21, 2021 03:42 AM
Edited by NimoStar at 05:11, 21 Jun 2021.

Quote:
I wonder what all these creatures were supposed to cast...


My guess would be like this:

Normally when NWC made an H3 casting creature, they give the casting ability of what they themselves have (like elementals).

- Dread Knights -> Curse at a distance. The color is also a pretty obvious giveaway.


- Cyclops Kings -> It seems this is blind.

Cyclops in mythology had something going with blindness. The Cyclops in the Odyssey threw rocks, but also they were blinded by the protagonist. This would add another callback to myth.
Don't believe me? Look at the sprite:

Personally, I would restrict this to working at melee range only.

- Minotaur Kings -> Mirth. The sprite just makes the glitter so I believe whatever spell they had, it woudn't be game changing, offensive or a big deal. Maybe they could dispel themselves?


- Zealots -> Bless is the obvious and most balanced choice, but I guess any basic "good" blessing would work, like Heal. Prayer would be too OP however.

Since Zealots are powerful ranged units, I think few will choose the bless over the ranged attack, unless you make a 1 zealot stack for the bless (similar but much weaker than genie splitting, assuming they can only cast once).

- Vampire Lords -> Not sure, perhaps Hypnotize, with power depending on Vampire Lord number. Considering how weak the Hypnotize spell is, this would probably only work on the smallest of enemies.

Another option is life draining at a distance, but there is no precedent for this.


- War Unicorns -> The sprite makes me think this is definitely Fortune. It would go with the whole Rampart being lucky, and unicorns in particular. They are golden which is something associated with Fortune in H3. It would be cool to enable this.
Since it takes the unicorn's turn to cast and they are a fast powerful offensive unit that can blind instead of casting this, it's not at all overpowered.


- Both Efreeti -> Fire Shield, clearly from gameplay, but otherwise, the animation seems like it could give a temporary primary Power boost to your hero for their spell that turn. This would go with the Inferno "Spell Power" theme.


- Both Basilisks -> Petrify once as spell, instead of on attack. The glowy eyes confirm this.
It's also possible this is like a one-time "Gaze of the gorgon" at a distance.


- Both Beholders -> Considering H4 Evil Eyes, and H3 Genies, it is
very likely they would cast "Random Curse" once at enemies.

In Dungeons and Dragons, Beholders are known as powerful curse spellcasters (with the focus of its magic being their eyes), so the weird thing is that H3 beholders can't cast in the first place. OF course, this was planned.


If wanting to do a restoration, I would use those.

Don't know:
- Harpy Hags. Doesn't seem very magical and there are no obvious choices. Maybe, since they are Hags, it will be aging?



________________

So let's look at balance changes:

Dungeon : +3 spellcasters = 3, had 0
Rampart : +2 spellcasters = 2, had 0
Inferno : +1 spellcaster = 2, had 1 (Pit Lord)
Castle : +1 spellcaster = 2, had 1 (Angel)
Stronghold : +1 spellcaster = 2, had 1 (Ogre Magi)
Fortress : +1 spellcaster = 1, had 0
Necropolis: +1 spellcaster = 1, had 0
Conflux: +0 spellcasters = 4, Had 4 (elementals)
Tower: +0 spellcasters = 1, Had 1 (genie)

I don't think enacting the changes would be bad for balance since Dungeon is considered T3.

The only one that really loses here is Tower, but they have the best creature spellcaster (genie) as well as the best spellcasting for heroes (library and wall of knowledge and artifact merchants), so I think they will be fine. Conflux already has more than all the others even with the change, so it doesn't need it.

___

PS: Also, if Eagle Eye could be reprogrammed to also let you learn spells cast by creatures (not only enemy heroes), this would definitely make it more useful. So two birds, one stone?
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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 21, 2021 08:42 AM

Wow I would love to have all these unused animations in the game and new spell casters provides new battle tactics, which is great! The only one that does'nt make sense to me are harpies, aging seems too much for a level 2 unit, perhaps only curse then...
Since basilisks have gaze, I guess medusas could too, but seems like there is no animation for them.
Tower will definitely be fine without any buffs, with Mage Guild 5 + Library, they are already pretty crazy.

And yes I always wanted Eagle Eye to pick up creatures spells as well. It would become much better with all these hypothetical spell casters too.

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