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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: Equilibris 3.6 beta
Thread: Equilibris 3.6 beta This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
CTPAHHuK
CTPAHHuK


Adventuring Hero
krs.83@mail.ru
posted December 21, 2021 10:07 AM

Equilibris 3.6 beta

https://equilibris.celestialheavens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&p=86051#p86051
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radmutant69
radmutant69


Promising
Known Hero
posted December 22, 2021 12:19 AM

OMG

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted December 22, 2021 02:40 AM

Some interesting stuff but I do wonder if this version is based on 3.55 it may not be very stable (other than antivirus detecting it as malware)
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Romanov77
Romanov77


Known Hero
posted December 23, 2021 10:10 AM

Is there a changelog?

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CTPAHHuK
CTPAHHuK


Adventuring Hero
krs.83@mail.ru
posted December 23, 2021 04:57 PM

For a description of the new functionality, see the equilibris.chm file in the root folder of the game
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Romanov77
Romanov77


Known Hero
posted December 23, 2021 07:42 PM

CTPAHHuK said:
For a description of the new functionality, see the equilibris.chm file in the root folder of the game


I'm on the phone. No access to pc in a few days.
What has changed?

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iliveinabox05
iliveinabox05


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted December 23, 2021 11:04 PM

Romanov77 said:
I'm on the phone. No access to pc in a few days.
What has changed?


Biggest thing is the addition of HD. There are HD resources for townscreen interactions. The h4r file can be downloaded separately if you wanted to take a look at the assets.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted December 24, 2021 01:13 AM
Edited by NimoStar at 06:17, 24 Dec 2021.

Mining has been merged with Estates and in their place there is a new "guide" skill.

This skill gives more map movement points to creatures with low movement, but only if you have high movement creatures in your army.

Personally I believe this to be rather meh... it's basically a worse pathfinding/logistics.

But the Nobility side of skills has been strenghtened since they now get free mining alongside states, besides this new skill.

Basically this is a buff to nobles to give them an army movement utility and not just sitting in town, but the incentive to invest your level-ups into this (instead of say, getting more skill levels in the buffed Estates) is rather questionable.

I don't know that map movement is as important in h4 as it was in h3.
Some things that lessen its importance:
- Treasure-hunting and map scout creatures need no heroes.
- Caravans.
- Creatures accumulate indefinitely in dwellings. (now in HotA too)
- Weekly resource generators such as windmills can be flagged and don't need to be revisited.
- Creatures have their own stack movement points which are separate from the hero - they can't be transferred to further their movement.
- Heroes can separate and fight any neutral or enemy in order to retreat from combat to nearest allied town, with no ill effects. (if it was up to me, they'd need to be re-recruited or something...)
- No recruiting on "weeks" only, thus lessened incentive to be/get a town on a specific day.
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Bytebandit
Bytebandit


Promising
Famous Hero
Soul Merchant
posted December 24, 2021 09:00 PM

I suppose logistics would be important in tournament play.
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NimoStar
NimoStar


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted December 25, 2021 02:13 AM
Edited by NimoStar at 02:13, 25 Dec 2021.

This only helps naturally slow creature, though, and they are normallycreatures you don't have much reason to put in your army anyways.

Unlike in H4 ultimate, normally in h4 and equi slow creatures are level 1, and those are bad, die quickly, and generally lack much useful combat abilities.

So the skill will generally only be useful if you somehow want to have trash stacks in your army
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Romanov77
Romanov77


Known Hero
posted December 28, 2021 11:40 PM

Can some good soul just copy-paste the changelog?

I really cannot install the game now,but I am very curious of the changes.

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iliveinabox05
iliveinabox05


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted December 29, 2021 12:39 AM

Romanov77 said:
Can some good soul just copy-paste the changelog?

I really cannot install the game now,but I am very curious of the changes.


Over on CelestialHeavens.

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Romanov77
Romanov77


Known Hero
posted December 29, 2021 09:14 PM
Edited by Romanov77 at 21:16, 29 Dec 2021.

iliveinabox05 said:
Romanov77 said:
Can some good soul just copy-paste the changelog?

I really cannot install the game now,but I am very curious of the changes.


Over on CelestialHeavens.


Thanks.


Man, that was a pain to read...
I find some of the decision being like...random.

some examples:

Pyromancer» - immunity to cold.--- this is...weird.

Battle Mage» - with attacks cast spell «Cowardice».So random and doesn't really fit the battlemage theme

Illusionist» - immunity to fire spells. Again, totally random

Instead of skill "Mining" introduced to the skill "Guide". As a result of the skill gap decreases in speed on the strategic map among the fastest creatures army and all the rest. The degree of reduction of the gap depends on the skill level: 15% ("Basic") - 30% ("Advanced") - 45% ("Expert") - 60% ("Master") - 75% ("Grandmaster")
Biggest offender, totally random. This should go under the "Scouting" tree, it has nothing to do with "Nobility".

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted January 01, 2022 08:23 AM

I disagree about the "totally random". While I don't necessarily agree with the changes the reasoning is evident:

Quote:
Pyromancer» - immunity to cold.--- this is...weird.

Battle Mage» - with attacks cast spell «Cowardice».So random and doesn't really fit the battlemage theme

Illusionist» - immunity to fire spells. Again, totally random


Pyromancer; Melts ice

Battle Mage: Intmidates enemies with his physical prowess and warrior countenance

Illusionist: Some illusionist acts involve fire such as "walking in flames".


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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted January 08, 2022 01:31 PM

So... this incorporates all the 3.59 beta changes too, I see. With Dragon's Strength being level 4 and stuff.

Oh well. Let's see..

Quote:
· Instead of skill "Mining" introduced to the skill "Guide". As a result of the skill gap decreases in speed on the strategic map among the fastest creatures army and all the rest. The degree of reduction of the gap depends on the skill level: 15% ("Basic") - 30% ("Advanced") - 45% ("Expert") - 60% ("Master") - 75% ("Grandmaster") (also see the 'Skill_Guide.pdf" file).


I guess the intention here is to make Tactics+Nobility less lackluster for commanders compared to Tactics+Scouting.
But the "Guide" skill is situational (needs slow creatures in the first place), doesn't reduce terrain penalties, and doesn't boost your speed if you only have fast units.

Sorry, nobility dudes will remain in my towns. They will enjoy combined mining + estates and the buffs to resource production, though.

Quote:
«Bard» - ignoring line of sight.


This would be among the strongest specialties, maybe even the best, sadly it's paired with a spell school that doesn't benefit from it (Nature). Return of no-los hypnosis? haha.

Quote:
9 «Guildmaster» - an opportunity to 3-fold reduce the resistance to magic enemy creatures and heroes


This is quite intriguing. With hypnosis, ofc.
Double ranged attack vs. enemy hero (3-fold means "divide by 3", I presume?) followed by hypnosis which now only has 33% chance of being resisted?
You can use less powerful spell like blind, or even magic attacks (bringing down resistance to 33% means ie. water elementals will instakill the enemy hero no matter what). It's still a gamechanger if it works.
Wonder what's the proc chance.

Quote:
· Artifact "Bag of Gold" moved to the «Minor» category


That's it? we have a plethora of gamebreaking artifacts that have no business being "Minor" or "Treasure" and a handful of useless Relics.

Iirc "david's sling" is still "Treasure", "Mind crown" nad "Mind shield" are still minor despite being probably the most gamechanging artifacts in the game (should be Relics, no joke) whereas garbage like "Flaming arrow" is still a relic (Minor would be better).

Quote:
Spells
· Twinned ward (single and mass) "The Order-Chaos", "The Nature-Death" (School of Life) and "The Life-Might" (School of Death). The effectiveness of dual Wards is reduced to 33%.


I have no idea what do they mean by dual wards.
Judging by the description of Paladin class, wards have been halved in power?
That is a huge blow to Life magic, tbh. And I find life already underperforming because cancelation screws it up entirely and all top tier towns have access to death magic.
Life still has ridiculously good spells like Martyr, but yeah, cancelation or steal enchantment screws that up hard.

Quote:
· Spell «Dragon Strenth» - Duration reduced to 66%, the spell moved to the Level 4


Eh, mixed feelings.

Now you can at least reliably cast the spell with just Master Nature Magic with a level 9 hero and level 9 is fairly easy to rush later in the game. Grandmaster needs level 14 which is considerably harder to reach. So you may see this more in play.

But, a nerf, uhh, idk. I've never felt this was an OP spell. The only buff spell that is kinda OP is cat's grace, and mostly for Death, since it allows devils to double attack after teleporting which is enough to kill the majority of heroes in the game right away and usually through immortality potions even if you don't have (mass) cancelation/steal enchantments. So it's not OP by itself, more like situationally powerful. OFC one may argue that a level9 hero being able to double any stack in his army is OP, and I'd be inclined to agree, it allows some crazy snowballs, not gonna lie (double creeping potential) so... ehh, maybe?

I guess it was also to standarize the death/nature/chaos' ultimate single target buffs to all be tier 4, which is understandable.

Quote:
· Spell «Prayer» is valid for all friendly forces of Nature, Life, Order, and Might. Increases hits points and damage of units by 20%. It cancels and replaces the "Unholy song" spell. It cancel and replace the "Unholy song" spell.


Sweet, but together with ward spell nerf - not so sweet.

Quote:
· Spell «Vampiric Touch» - moved to to the Level 4


Ehh, now there's only 1 level 5 spell of Death magic you really want/need and that's mass cancelation. The other two are duds.

Quote:
· Spell «Raise Vampires» - moved to the Level 5. Increased efficiency - the hero level 20 raise 10 vampires (in the original version - 8 vampires)


This spell sucks. Being it level 5 means you're playing a RNG game for mass cancelation vs. two useless tier 5 spells. That's more RNG, not less. Not a fan.


I think this new Equi, fun as it is, doesn't address the problems the game still has, which would be:

- awkward difficulty level scaling, making "Champion" unnaturally promote towns that have access to "Charm" skill which becomes crucial early game.
- Might faction being entirely useless.
- Djinns being able to cast song of peace which makes Order a magnitude better in creeping, esp. on Champion difficulty.
- Heroes being too fragile compared to a full-pop army on corresponding levels, even with GM Defense and some def artifacts. By the time you reach level 20, the armies are big enough to one shot you anyway.
- Overpowered necromancy (especially in tandem with "Charm" on Champion difficulty - thousands of skeletons that cannot be stopped by mind/disable spells is too much)
- Overpowered hypnosis spell and how it shapes the gameplay once you get it. Should be a limit of turns (-1 for each tier) and it shouldn't affect heroes.
- tons of imbalance regarding artifact classes, some relics are worse than treasure class artifacts

So the team still has a lot to do.

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Red_White
Red_White

Disgraceful
Tavern Dweller
posted January 10, 2022 01:45 PM - penalty applied by Galaad on 25 Feb 2022.

In my opinion all of these changes are bad or not necessary. Especially moving vampire touch to 4th lvl that makes death much stronger. Creeping dragon utopia will be much easier for death.

As for your comment about "Heroes being too fragile" I can say that in online game some gamers still use "tank heroes" with success.

I will stay with Equilibris 3.51 and I hope for many good games soon
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NimoStar
NimoStar


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted January 10, 2022 08:24 PM
Edited by NimoStar at 20:30, 10 Jan 2022.

Quote:
(Guildmaster) You can use less powerful spell like blind, or even magic attacks (bringing down resistance to 33% means ie. water elementals will instakill the enemy hero no matter what)


Don't think so. If this works like "ignore enemy magic resistance", then the reduction of resistance only applies for the hero itself (AKA for spells that the hero casts), not for creatures in the hero's army.

***

Equilibris fans are so conservative they don't even like equilibris now

The irony.

I think combining wards is rather technically impressive for being a hack.
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Red_White
Red_White

Disgraceful
Tavern Dweller
posted January 10, 2022 09:18 PM - penalty applied by Galaad on 10 Jan 2022.

NimoStar said:


Equilibris fans are so conservative they don't even like equilibris now

The irony.




The modmakers are so in love with yourselves that they will never notice the voice of online players - because they have never played an online game /or better to say a game with a decent online player/.

This is not ironic but their stupidity.
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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted January 10, 2022 10:10 PM

BrennusWhiseky I already told you secondary accounts are forbidden. Also seems you didn't learn about not insulting others.
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NimoStar
NimoStar


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted January 13, 2022 03:22 AM

Hey Brennus, you accusse people of making changes to the game without playing you - yet you yourself refuse to play any of the new mods, dismissing them without even testing them.

In fact, you refused the challenge of playing against me to test balance and see if your presumptions were true.

Curious, isn't it?
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