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| Thread: Robert Jordan, anyone? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · «PREV |
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pepeviejo
Adventuring Hero
Protecting sheep + baby ducks
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posted June 07, 2002 11:35 AM |
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The Wheel of Times books are excellent and I enjoy everyones theories and hypothesis but I have a feelling Rand is going to die. Does anyone read the Dragonlance Chronicles books? I like them a little bit better than the WoT books.
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DonGio
Promising
Famous Hero
of Clear Water Mountain Clan
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posted June 23, 2002 11:44 AM |
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I think he may die at the very end of the series, but definitely not before. Jordan is extremely cautious and "cheap" when it comes to killing main characters, Moiraine is the only real big one so far (in quite a lot of pages), and it would be kind of a waste, I think, keeping all of them alive for the last battle just to have them all wasted there.
I believe (and hope; I'm a sucker for happy endings) that some of them will die, but not the three ta'veren, and not Egwene, Nynaeve, Elayne, Aviendha either.
As to the decline of the series, I disagree somewhat. I think the complexity of the WoT universe demands these "slow" and uneventful stretches to round up all loose threads, and I think we should be grateful to RJ for writing these books. The only thing I would really complain about is the "invention" of bigger and badder enemies to give Rand a resemblance of a challenge. Nevertheless, I think the ending will be spectacular.
Read Well
DonGio
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There are 10 types of people: Those who read binary, and those who don't.
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god_boy
Known Hero
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posted June 23, 2002 11:54 AM |
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I loved Robert Jordan's books. The only problem was, when i got to book 7 and onwards, i kinda forgot what happened in the earlier ones and i had to keep on borrowing the old ones again. anyway I've got one question that has been left unanswered in the book and now i'm looking for your theories:
Who killed Asmodean (I think that's how you spell it)?
I reckon it was another one of the forsaken, although it may have been an Aes Sedai of the black ajah. What do you think? Also, does anyone now when Crossroads of Twilight will be coming out? Its been so long since the last book that i've forgotten a lot of the details from the earlier 9 books.
To answer the following question:
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Can fellow fantasy lovers out there recommend anything else?
I don't like fantasy mixed with sci-fi, and I have also tried and "rejected" writers like Katherine Kerr, Terry Brooks, Dennis L. McTiernan (or something like that).
I have read and enjoyed Robin Hobb, David Eddings, ++
I really enjoyed J.V. Jones' Marod's Book of Words trilogy. She's got a new series called the Sword of Shadows. The first book is already out.
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I walk in the shadow of the valley of darkness, yet I am unafraid, for You are with me.
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arachnid
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted June 23, 2002 09:30 PM |
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Ok ive not read the books but after reading some of the first chapter with these guys commentary i dont i could take it at all seriously. And after you have been to this site you have to admit its extremely cheesy
http://www.geocities.com/brokenwheeloftime/chapter1.html
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Lews_Therin
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted June 24, 2002 02:49 AM |
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Quote: "Jordan is extremely cautious and "cheap" when it comes to killing main characters, Moiraine is the only real big one so far ..."
Moiraine is definately NOT dead. There are several of Min´s viewings, each of them on its own clear evidence for her return.
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god_boy
Known Hero
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posted June 24, 2002 12:26 PM |
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Quote:
Quote: "Jordan is extremely cautious and "cheap" when it comes to killing main characters, Moiraine is the only real big one so far ..."
Moiraine is definately NOT dead. There are several of Min´s viewings, each of them on its own clear evidence for her return.
Then how came lanfear, who moraine dragged into the portal with her, was ressurrected in the form of that other evil forsaken chic (sorry, i can't remember her name cause its been so long since ive read it) Doesn't that mean that lanfear died when she fell into the portal? Wouldn't that have killed moraine as well?
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DonGio
Promising
Famous Hero
of Clear Water Mountain Clan
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posted June 24, 2002 01:07 PM |
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Thanks for all answers, reading tips and opinions. That was a truly funny site, Arachnid. No, Robert Jordan isn't exactly Hemingway or Kafka, and he does borrow an awful lot in his writings, but that isn't really the point. The point is the complexity of the WoT world and the plot, which is, in my opinion, rather exciting.
So I would suggest you give the books a try, not much to lose. You get used to the cliches and repetitive language, or maybe you just learn to ignore it, and see the story for itself.
Read well
DonGio
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There are 10 types of people: Those who read binary, and those who don't.
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Lews_Therin
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted June 25, 2002 02:27 AM |
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Quote: Then how came lanfear, who moraine dragged into the portal with her, was ressurrected in the form of that other evil forsaken chic (sorry, i can't remember her name cause its been so long since ive read it) Doesn't that mean that lanfear died when she fell into the portal? Wouldn't that have killed moraine as well?
Obviously not, because Min never errs.
I´d also recommend you to read the chapter "Deceptions" from Book 4 again, and think of Moiraine´s being bound to the 3 oaths.
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joney18
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 26, 2002 05:45 PM |
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Quote:
Quote: Then how came lanfear, who moraine dragged into the portal with her, was ressurrected in the form of that other evil forsaken chic (sorry, i can't remember her name cause its been so long since ive read it) Doesn't that mean that lanfear died when she fell into the portal? Wouldn't that have killed moraine as well?
first lanfear is not dead. Read book nine again especialy the ending and it is easily able to tell cydane is Lanfear. Most agree that Moiraine s at the tower of Ghenji being held prisioner, remember she went through the portal twice so that is bad for her. Also remember the game of snakes and foxes, and the opening lines, not allowed to use steel, music, and other stuff. Also those are the same requirments on entering the Terangerel, not to mention the snake fox thing. The only way to win is break the rules. It is also agreed that mat will rediscover gunpowder. A cannon would break all of th rules, they are steel, make music, etc. If Cyndane(lanfear) is alive Moiraine must be and it is agreed that Matis the one wh will rescue. Also there are the hints at the start of the 4th book that one of Moiraines questions will be who she will marry, she gets edgy about th question and asures Thom they will meet again. Most believe they will be married. Plus the whole Min veiwing thing.
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god_boy
Known Hero
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posted June 29, 2002 01:33 PM |
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it is obvious that cyndane is lanfear, but is she not resurrected then? i've always thought that lanfear died when she fell into the portal but the dark lord retrieved her spirit or whatever and gave her the body of cyndane. in this case, moraine might return, but she would be in the body of another, wouldn't she? also, who resurrected her then?
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joney18
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 29, 2002 05:40 PM |
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good point
I realy have no idea, I would guess that the dark one rescued/punished her and left Moiraine to her fate with the aeilfinn
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Avallach
Hired Hero
Disputo ergo sum.
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posted June 30, 2002 10:14 AM |
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I have a feelling Rand is going to die.
So it would seem. Die, and be raised again, and from several hints we've been given, probably three days later. Yet another religious parallel.
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I think the complexity of the WoT universe demands these "slow" and uneventful stretches to round up all loose threads
True, but for myself, it's not the slowness that troubles me. It's just that his writing seems to have diminished in quality, and his vision of the story to have dimmed. He's had to spend two books now tidying the loose ends up, and given those two books together are longer than the whole of LOTR, I think it's fair to say he's been getting a little sloppy.
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and I think we should be grateful to RJ for writing these books.
Indeed, and I am especially so, as it was through WOT that I was introduced to fantasy. And yet I must confess that over time my thoughts toward Jordan have become less charitable. For several years I was willing to argue against those who claimed he was 'milking' the series, but now... well, after him selling the prologues for WH and COT as ebooks, I wonder if he is letting the monetary side of things conflict too much with his integrity as an author, and if he isn't dragging things out deliberately. But I'll give him the benefit of the doubt at least until CoT comes out  .
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Who killed Asmodean (I think that's how you spell it)?
Graendal! She's the only one that had a reason to be there that we know of.
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Also, does anyone now when Crossroads of Twilight will be coming out?
According to [url=http://wotmania.com/]Wotmania[/url], November 12.
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Ok ive not read the books but after reading some of the first chapter with these guys commentary i dont i could take it at all seriously. And after you have been to this site you have to admit its extremely cheesy
Not at all. It's easy to mock anything that way if one wants to, but very little of what he said had any substance. Several of his remarks were at least funny, but had little relevance to Jordan's writing. Just someone who dislikes (and seemingly misunderstands) the series, and finds himself amusing.
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If Cyndane(lanfear) is alive Moiraine must be and it is agreed that Matis the one wh will rescue. Also there are the hints at the start of the 4th book that one of Moiraines questions will be who she will marry, she gets edgy about th question and asures Thom they will meet again. Most believe they will be married. Plus the whole Min veiwing thing.
I've always figured that it'll be Thom that rescues her, myself. Recall Egwene's Dream of Thom pulling Moiraines stone from the fire?
I agree that Moiraine and Thom will marry, but I don't think she would have asked the Aelfinn about this. She is a Blue, and would not have wasted a question on something so trivial. No, I think that her knowledge comes from another source - Min. I think that back in Baerlon, Min had a viewing that Moiraine would marry Thom, and told Moiraine. This is what allows Moiraine to state firmly that she will see him again, and is the viewing that Min believes has failed.
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it is obvious that cyndane is lanfear, but is she not resurrected then? i've always thought that lanfear died when she fell into the portal but the dark lord retrieved her spirit or whatever and gave her the body of cyndane.
Lannies return as Cyndane is a bit of a mystery. If she had simply died and been recycled as with Aginor and Balthamel, it would be simple enough. It could have been that Moiraine had killed Lanfear in the Eelfinn's world - she pulled the angreal away from Lanfear as they went through, which would have disrupted Lanfear's control of Saidar, and also given Moiraine the strength boost. But it does not now seem as if Lanfear was simply killed. The reason is that whereas Aginor and Balthamel both retained their same strength, Cyndane is considerably weaker in the OP than Lanfear was. Perhaps she could have been Stilled/Healed as with Siuan and Leane, but the Forsaken don't know how to do that. Maybe there are BA at Salidar who learnt enough from Nynaeve, but even so, the strength loss doesn't seem quite as bad as it was for Siuan/Leane. Which leaves some people to speculate that perhaps she made some deal with the Eelfinn, and the strength loss is a consequence of that, but then the question must be raised of why Moiraine could not also have gotten out. Assuming she survived an encounter with Lanfear, though how they could both survive is another question. *Shrugs* Best answer I can think of is RAFO .
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in this case, moraine might return, but she would be in the body of another, wouldn't she?
The Dark One is the only one that can place souls in bodies like this I think, but I don't think he'd be able to retrieve Moiraine's soul to place in a new body the way he does the Forsaken's. This is just a personal theory, but I think it's the black threads that attach the Chosen to the DO that allow him to do this.
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"Death slew him not, but he made death his ladder to the skies"
- Edmund Spenser, on the death of Philip Sidney
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joney18
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 01, 2002 04:37 PM |
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quote]
I've always figured that it'll be Thom that rescues her, myself. Recall Egwene's Dream of Thom pulling Moiraines stone from the fire?
I agree that Moiraine and Thom will marry, but I don't think she would have asked the Aelfinn about this. She is a Blue, and would not have wasted a question on something so trivial. No, I think that her knowledge comes from another source - Min. I think that back in Baerlon, Min had a viewing that Moiraine would marry Thom, and told Moiraine. This is what allows Moiraine to state firmly that she will see him again, and is the viewing that Min believes has failed.
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Good point about the finn question. But remember who is with Thom at this time, it is Mat. My money is on they will work together.
Ah yes Wotmania a really good sit for anything wheel ot time or Jordan.
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Avallach
Hired Hero
Disputo ergo sum.
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posted July 02, 2002 04:13 AM |
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*Nods* It's possible. I figured Mat would have more important things to deal with - such as his own wife. But you could be right.
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"Death slew him not, but he made death his ladder to the skies"
- Edmund Spenser, on the death of Philip Sidney
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joney18
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 02, 2002 05:34 PM |
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yeah still works
It still works out, if you read the jacket from CoT tthen you would know that his relationship consits running like hell right about now, from the seanchean who are being ruled by a forsaken (I think one of lead commanders is on suroth or Toun's advisor) and from darkfriends who do not want to see peace between randland and seanchean. My guess is they run strait into the tower of ghenji.
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DonGio
Promising
Famous Hero
of Clear Water Mountain Clan
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posted March 30, 2003 05:53 PM |
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Damn, fellas...
Now that most of us(?) have bought and read Crossroads of Twilight, I have to say my face flushes when I read myself defending this man...
This book was easily one of the worst I've ever read all the way through. NOTHING happens, his writing is more cliché-filled and repetitious than ever, and my eyes almost bled from all the redundancy. Man, why does he feel the need to spend several HUNDRED pages reminding us of what happened in the last books? Give the readers a little credit, willya?!
I can't believe I never saw how hideously poor a writer Robert Jordan. I mean, he'd make a heck of a storyline for a fantasy based computer game, but his linguistic abilities don't count for much, in my book(bad pun), anyway.
So whay say ye? Does anyone actually like this one? I had to force myself through the last two hundred pages. And the more I think about it, the more I think the link that Arachnid provided hits the nail on the head.
Dixi
DonGio
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There are 10 types of people: Those who read binary, and those who don't.
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Marelt_Ekiran
Promising
Famous Hero
Watcher of All
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posted March 31, 2003 03:42 AM |
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Indeed, my first thought after I finished the book (bought it the moment it was available). I have never seen a book where so much nothing happens.
Although, Jordan does create a nice bit of promise for the next book. We'll have to see what the turning of the wheel of time will bring us (for the time being, I'll just read the sword of truth series).
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Perception is everything.
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Kuma
Promising
Supreme Hero
u can type so much text in her
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posted March 31, 2003 11:14 AM |
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trying out the libririan?
hehe a topic about books and therefore in the library.
Very on-topic guys...
Well, if Hexa left it here all these months I guess I'll do the same.
Haven't read it tho; I should?
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