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| Thread: What's the deal with Steel Golems? (HotA) | |
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted November 24, 2023 07:46 AM |
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What's the deal with Steel Golems? (HotA)
Will they get their own dwelling?, will they join the Golem Factory? or will they get no dwelling at all?
Bonus question: Was the Steel Golem needed?
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avatar
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted November 24, 2023 12:56 PM |
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Was needed. To make pvp games more fair and less abusable.
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Star_mage
Hired Hero
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posted November 24, 2023 02:36 PM |
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Phoenix4ever said:
Will they get their own dwelling?, will they join the Golem Factory? or will they get no dwelling at all?
Not sure how would you want us to respond to that. I think that it needs to be addressed to the hota team.
From my POV, yes, they need a dwelling. And a special place in Tower.
Like a summoning spell for Alchemists and Mages, only to be called 'Conjure X Golem' (and specialists).
For now, the spells could be Earth Spells, since metals and stones are 'spawned' in the soil and arcane-associated spells (in other games, that is) are in Earth Magic School: Anti-Magic, Force Field.
But later, they could be Arcane Spells if new magic schools arise in VCMI.
Quote:
Bonus question: Was the Steel Golem needed?
New things are always needed.
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Hourglass
Supreme Hero
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posted November 24, 2023 04:08 PM |
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Phoenix4ever said:
Will they get their own dwelling?, will they join the Golem Factory? or will they get no dwelling at all?
Bonus question: Was the Steel Golem needed?
I believe all of these questions presented were basically answered in the very same post that introduced the Golems in the first place.
This is from 1st of January 2020 by Tevye:
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However, only in later updates will a new resident move into the Golem Factory, common home of all Golems on the adventure map. We deemed making changes to the hiring dialogue to be of low priority; this time-consuming task has been pushed back for now. Testing has shown speed 6 to be the minimum required to make battles more complicated, but we might later increase the speed for the Steel Golem to 7, if even finer balance tuning of the Shops' guard proves necessary.
Intrestingly, you especially ask if they were needed. Because they were especially created for purpose. Before Steel Golems, you did fight against Iron Golems for Giants, but players managed to create ways that made the fight a breeze, especially if you had Harpy Hags in you party. They didn't want to change any stats, but the +1 speed was necessary to be added in order to stop players from accesing free Giants.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted November 24, 2023 06:20 PM |
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@Hourglass
Ahh okay, that was almost 4 years ago, so I guess I forgot.
That means it really is time for that update!
Iron Golems have 5 or 6 speed, Gold and Dimaond Golems only have 5, another way to solve the issue would have been to give Gold and Diamond Golems +1 speed and used Gold Golems instead of Iron or Steel Golems.
Gold and Diamond Golems are actually SLOWER than Iron Golems, if you think about it... To create a 5th golem just for this, is a bit strange, but I have nothing particular against it. (I did give Gold and Diamond Golems +1 speed myself though, like they deserve.)
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Panda_Tar
Adventuring Hero
CH mascot and right-wing
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posted November 24, 2023 08:15 PM |
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Always wondered if Diamond Golems could have a 'Prismatic Body' ability. If you cast any single target damage spell, like lightning bolt, ice bolt, magic arrow etc, its body would absorb just 5% of the damage and transfer the rest of the damage to all adjacent units (friendlies and/or enemies), like a prism. The golem would, of course, be immune to prismatic effects.
Speaking of conduction, Gold golems could conduct or even boost lightning-based spells. If you target them with a lightning bolt, they get 20% of the damage and grants a jump against a foe (primarily, but will jump on an ally if there are no targetable enemies (like immune)). Chain lightning has an added jump also.
Steel golems, in addition to maybe a bit more speed and HP or damage to the Iron golem, could have immunity to slow (gold and diamond too).
Dunno, I always disliked these additional golems because they all looked so bland and generic just having magic resistance tweaks.
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Biology doesn't care about morality.
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Hourglass
Supreme Hero
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posted November 24, 2023 11:46 PM |
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@phoenix4ever
They indeed said they didn't want to change the stats, and this statement included the neutral golems as well. I agree they went pretty all-in in order to tackle the issue, as outside of the Experimental shop, the Steel golem don't really add anything new for gameplay. I understand when you note that Gold and Diamond golems are slower than Steel golems, but on the other hand, Steel golems are a returning creature from Homm2, and in that game they are indeed faster than Iron golems.
Perhaps Steel Golems will play some kind of role in Factory, or more accurately, it's campaign. Other than that, they are not and will never be very intresting, they're kind of just there. That tends to be a running theme among most other neutral creatures, too.
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted November 25, 2023 07:48 AM |
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Yes, but I did'nt like the fact that both Iron and Steel Golems are faster than Gold and Diamond Golems. Gold and Diamond are supposed to be more powerful, yet they are slower, it makes no sense.
Yeah neutral creatures are a bit under utilized, because you get them in low numbers and they for some reason lack a native terrain, I don't think neutral creature dwellings are present often either?
I guess neutral creatures are mostly there to add variation to fights, but they are not really worth taking along, except for maybe Enchanters and Sharpshooters, but both are super fragile.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted November 25, 2023 06:24 PM |
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Iron Golems are speed 5 unless Josephine or Snow terrain, what do you mean? Do wanted a neutrals specialist? Cause for long I thought the bonus extended to the ultimate upgrades, only much latter finally used her and find out I was wrong... But I think it could be a good idea.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted November 26, 2023 08:59 AM |
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How about a neutral creature specialist along the lines of Gelu or Dracon? They don't provide a bonus for said creature, but they allow you to upgrade other units to that creature?
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted December 27, 2023 12:10 PM |
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Yeah meat golem is faster than stone, metal golems, etc also more brain, but weaker than stone, metal golems, etc by Jewish mythology included/along.. It said any golem model, so you can say wood golem or dragon golem.. What's the golem? Guard..
I don't like golems, if 'resurrection' spell for only non-living, so OP! When we've Animate Dead and Resurrection, but no non-living, I think that word.. What you give to word?! Think about rebirth, re-animate, etc So I never heard about mythology tells non-living gets resurrection..
I rejected golems, and replaced angels, for example often.. Many years ago, I always played with golems.. My personal record in about 12k golems from IW2 map..  guards come in the battlefield along..
At least you know now its the spirit of the game.. You must know their roles.. Not easy!
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted December 28, 2023 07:17 PM |
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Edited by NimoStar at 19:18, 28 Dec 2023.
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Golem Factory may be OP when generated as a lvl3 dwelling on adventure for Tower, they get extra three (now 4?) powerful creatures when compared to regular towns...
There should be a "normal" stone golem dwelling and a separate one for all types.
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Never changing = never improving
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MurlocAggroB
Hired Hero
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posted December 30, 2023 04:45 AM |
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NimoStar said:
Golem Factory may be OP when generated as a lvl3 dwelling on adventure for Tower, they get extra three (now 4?) powerful creatures when compared to regular towns...
There should be a "normal" stone golem dwelling and a separate one for all types.
I don't think that's necessary. It's balanced out by how the Golem Factory is guarded unlike other tier 3 dwellings, and Gold and Diamond Golems are pretty weak for their price. The only really strong thing is they get to buy Iron Golems.
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gatecrasher
Famous Hero
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posted December 30, 2023 05:19 PM |
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Maybe there should be a "minor" Golem Factory (plain lvl3 Tower dwelling) for Stone Golems only and a "Greater Golem Factory" for all kind of Golems similar to the Elemental Conflux.
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted December 30, 2023 09:14 PM |
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Edited by NimoStar at 21:20, 30 Dec 2023.
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MurlocAggroB said:
I don't think that's necessary. It's balanced out by how the Golem Factory is guarded unlike other tier 3 dwellings, and Gold and Diamond Golems are pretty weak for their price. The only really strong thing is they get to buy Iron Golems.
Some guards (which are easy to beat since they are slow) does not scale with double golem production not even counting Gold and Diamond golems.
And gold and diamond golems are not bad vs human led armies, the near complete damage resistance, as long as mind resistance, resistance to spells due to unliving, and lack of life draining (for example from vampires), makes them valuable.
You can say that they are not the best creatures for their level/price, but one thing is certain: Golem Factory not a real lvl 3 dwelling when it has upgraded, unupgraded, plus two other lvl 5 and 6 creatures. And HotA says they will add a fifth lvl 4 one...
I never said that the big Golem Factory should be removed, only that this shouldn't be the default tower lvl3 dwelling, much like every Conflux dwelling isn't the Elemental Conflux.
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Never changing = never improving
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