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| Thread: HoMM3 Liberation campaign from original RoE Border Guards artifact investigation | |
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Og
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 05, 2024 10:23 PM |
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Edited by Og at 22:38, 05 Jan 2024.
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HoMM3 Liberation campaign from original RoE Border Guards artifact investigation
So, every version of the game other than the original Restoration of Erathia (I.E. Armageddon's Blade and later), has bugged artifact carry over rewards. It's a known issue, here is one example:
https://www.celestialheavens.com/forum/7/13733
I installed the original Restoration of Erathia to check how is it done there. My plan was to extract the campaign using MMArchive or ResEdit2 and than extract the map "Deal With the Devil" with the campaign editor but I ran into a problem: The original Restoration of Erathia does NOT have a campaign editor and newer versions of the campaign editor cannot open the original Restoration of Erathia campaigns (I tried editor V2.0 from AB and V3.0 from HoMM 3 Complete).
After some trial and error I managed to manually extract the map from the campaign by simply opening it with a hex editor and cutting the right gzip file from it. But alas, I cannot find the information I'm looking for there. Either I don't know how to use the map editor to find it or it doesn't exist in the map file.
To be clear, the information I'm looking for is what artifact does the GREEN Border Guard require. If it matters, the blue Border Guard requires the Badge of Courage to be carried over from the previous scenario.
Here is the map I extracted:
https://www.mediafire.com/file/546wynzmz83h10m/Good2-2b.zip/file
And here is the "Liberation" campaign file, but as I mentioned, I couldn't open it with anything:
https://www.mediafire.com/file/6juqjec2wnztgsr/Good2.zip/file
So... Anyone happens to remember which artifact is required to pass the green Border Guard in the original 1999 game? 
Or if not, any ideas on how I can find out without hours of playing?
[edit]
For some reason I cannot post hyperlinks on this forum. Maybe it's a user level thing?
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FdgK
Known Hero
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posted January 05, 2024 10:59 PM |
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The quest guard is looking for the Pendant of Life.
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Og
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 05, 2024 11:20 PM |
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FdgK said:
The quest guard is looking for the Pendant of Life.
That is true, the Quest Guard is looking for the Pendant of Life. But i'm not asking about the Quest Guard (Armageddon's Blade and onward), I'm asking about the green Border Guard (Original Restoration of Erathia) and that one is NOT looking for the Pendant of Life.
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FdgK
Known Hero
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posted January 05, 2024 11:30 PM |
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Edited by FdgK at 23:32, 05 Jan 2024.
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Oh sorry, I misunderstood your question then.
It is a long time ago since I played the RoE campaigns and even longer since I played it on RoE and not on Complete so I don’t remember. But shouldn’t a coloured borderguard require the tent of the same colour? Or was this hardcoded as a kind of quest guard in the RoE-version? I don’t remember at all, unfortunately.
Edit: If no one else knows and you don’t want to play until that point of the campaigns, couldn’t you just get there using cheats?
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted January 05, 2024 11:49 PM |
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As far as I know color border guards can only require color tents... (same as H4)
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Never changing = never improving
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Og
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 06, 2024 12:00 AM |
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FdgK said:
It is a long time ago since I played the RoE campaigns and even longer since I played it on RoE and not on Complete so I don’t remember.
Yeah, I didn't think there was much chance that I'll find someone that can remember something that old, but I said, heck, it's worth a try
FdgK said:
But shouldn’t a coloured borderguard require the tent of the same colour? Or was this hardcoded as a kind of quest guard in the RoE-version?
I don't know how they did it from the technical side, but I noticed that it is resolved in the beginning of the level. To be more specific, if the Badge of Courage was carried over, you can dismiss the hero that carries it, and the blue Border Guard will STILL open for any of your heroes, even though the Badge of Courage doesn't exist in the level anymore.
FdgK said:
If no one else knows and you don’t want to play until that point of the campaigns, couldn’t you just get there using cheats?
Sure, but the reason I want to know the artifact is because I'm genuinely curious, and also because if I know, then I can correct the bugged maps of the newer versions and post the files to help others.
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Og
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 06, 2024 12:04 AM |
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NimoStar said:
As far as I know color border guards can only require color tents... (same as H4)
That would mean that what you know is incorrect. I can upload a saved game if you care to try it yourself.
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FdgK
Known Hero
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posted January 06, 2024 12:19 AM |
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Og said:
FdgK said:
If no one else knows and you don’t want to play until that point of the campaigns, couldn’t you just get there using cheats?
Sure, but the reason I want to know the artifact is because I'm genuinely curious, and also because if I know, then I can correct the bugged maps of the newer versions and post the files to help others.
What I meant is: You could just use the win the scenario cheat (nwctrojanrabbit) in all the scenarios leading up to "Steadwick's Liberation" or "Deal With the Devil" depending on where you want to start with your investigation and then check that scenario for the artifact that you need.
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Og
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 06, 2024 12:29 AM |
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FdgK said:
What I meant is: You could just use the win the scenario cheat (nwctrojanrabbit) in all the scenarios leading up to "Steadwick's Liberation" or "Deal With the Devil" depending on where you want to start with your investigation and then check that scenario for the artifact that you need.
Oh yes, that is what I have been doing. I have been using cheats and a savegame editor for my tests so far.
The problem is that there is no way to know which artifact you need. It is not written anywhere (that I could find).
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted January 06, 2024 07:38 AM |
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Edited by NimoStar at 07:41, 06 Jan 2024.
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Og said:
That would mean that what you know is incorrect. I can upload a saved game if you care to try it yourself.
What I know is 100% correct, this can be seen in opening the campaign editor
What I suspect is done in that original Restoration of Erathia is reskinning the object with base on a Quest Guard (all grey), something that works because the H3 game doesn't check if the graphic belongs to the object type (sadly H4 does but that is another story).
This may also be why the map editor doesn't open the file. Have you tried the extended map editor? (H3Unleashed.exe)
Though, other options are still possible because your text overlay does say "Border guard" and not "Quest guard"
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Never changing = never improving
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Og
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 06, 2024 08:39 AM |
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Edited by Og at 08:40, 06 Jan 2024.
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NimoStar said:
What I know is 100% correct, this can be seen in opening the campaign editor
Again, you are mistaken. The original RoE does not have Quest Guards in the editor at all (IMHO Quest Guards were introduced in AB for the first time):
You can confirm this by opening the map I uploaded in the OP with your map editor, here is the link again:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/546wynzmz83h10m/Good2-2b.zip/file
Trying to add a Quest Guard on this map will give you the following error:
The way I think they did it with the colored Border Guards is using some option in the campaign editor. Unfortunately, as I mentioned before, the version 1.00 campaign editor was never released (AFAIK).
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted January 06, 2024 09:04 AM |
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Quote:
Again, you are mistaken. The original RoE does not have Quest Guards in the editor at all (IMHO Quest Guards were introduced in AB for the first time):
Again, I am not mistaken. I never said that Quest Guards were in RoE as such. I only said that normally, color guards are not configurable and are normally hardcoded:
[quote=NimoStar]As far as I know color border guards can only require color tents... (same as H4)
Even within this map, in RoE mode, with all expansion objects grayed out, the result is still the same:
So, how did they do it? I don't know. Maybe with quest huts. Maybe with scripting which was exclusive to the original campaigns. But, as it regards color quest guards being non-configurable in all known conditions, my point still stands.
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Never changing = never improving
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted January 06, 2024 12:59 PM |
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Its normal in the RoE without Keymaster's Tent.. H3C changed colourless Quest Guard.. So you get a knowledge, but you can't get a hidden Fear spell.. But you can go to RoE engine back, and you try again, not easy.. When you've knowledge  But RoE bug, thus you need updating version II to open Fear.. Without update for only AIs, and version III removed both.. Ok when you got every 100% hidden scenarios are opened, so you meet Christian again in the last scenario where Catherine, Lord Haart, but surprise visitor named Coronius in there.. and your four OP heroes.. If in there aren't Coronius and Christian, you failed the task.. I call Doom where hidden labyrinth, path, etc needed 100% completed secret is the same H3..
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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Og
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 06, 2024 02:02 PM |
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So I did what I originally wanted to avoid - I got back to testing and wasted about 2 hours equipping heroes with all artifacts that are available through the built-in cheats (which I assume are all the artifacts in the game). I did this at the previous scenario (Steadwick's Liberation) and then won the level so that the correct artifacts will carry over to the next scenario (Deal With the Devil).
Alas, again I have failed. the only artifact that was carried over was the Badge of Courage. And the green Border Guard still didn't open. So IMHO one of the following is true:
1. The green Border Guard does not trigger from an artifact carryover but from something else (maybe in the current scenario?).
2. The built-in cheats have missing artifacts.
3. The mechanics for the green Border Guard are different from the blue and therefore my use of cheats did not work correctly.
4. The original Restoration of Erathia is also bugged and it is impossible to open the green Border Guard (!).
Would sure love some help from someone who actually went through the same process as I did.
P.S. @Ghost: I did not understand a word of what you wrote...
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Og
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 06, 2024 06:12 PM |
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Well... Mystery solved.
The correct answer was "5. There is some game mechanic that I don't understand" (which is an option that I wanted to write but forgot).
I've been playing this game since 1999 and never knew that in some campaigns you can select your next scenario.
In the Liberation campaign, after you finish the 1st scenario (Steadwick's Liberation) you carry only the Badge of Courage, but can then pick which of the 2 next scenarios you play first. If you choose "Deal With the Devil", you get ONLY the Charm of Mana. If you choose "Neutral Affairs" you get ONLY the Pendant of Life.
So basically you get to choose between 2 paths:
1. "Deal With the Devil" first: Badge of Courage -> Charm of Mana -> Speculum -> Sentinel's Shield
2. "Neutral Affairs" first: Badge of Courage -> Pendant of Life -> Spyglass -> Thunder Helmet
I'd like to thank everyone that participated in this discussion.
By the way, if anyone is curious, I did not find the answer by myself, I found it in the official strategy guide (page 311):
https://archive.org/details/homm-3-guide/page/310/mode/2up?view=theater
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Og
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 07, 2024 08:01 PM |
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As for fixing the broken maps in Armageddon's Blade and newer versions, it is impossible to get an equal experience because of how different the original game is. The problems with the newer versions include:
1. In the original RoE the artifact was not consumed upon use on the Border Guard. In current versions it is (no way to change that and adding the same artifact after the Quest Guard doesn't seem right).
2. Due to the way current versions work (Quest Guard), if you find the item randomly (E.G. from a treasure chest, Warrior's Tomb, etc.) on the same level, you can open the corresponding Quest Guard.
3. Due to the way current versions work, you always carry over BOTH the items necessary to open BOTH Quest Guards IF you found them both on the previous scenario. And since the 1st scenario (Steadwick's Liberation) has all artifacts as RANDOM (it is the ONLY scenario with random artifacts), it is very easy to find the Pendant of Life or Charm of Mana and thus get BOTH artifacts at the second and third scenarios.
4. If you have more than 1 copy of a crossover artifact, you carry all copies to the next level.
5. The Badge of Courage is always available in "Neutral Affairs", so assuming <6> is corrected, you can always get both artifacts if you choose it as the 3rd scenario.
6. (this is the worst and most obvious bug) The Quest Guard guarding the Speculum requires the Speculum instead of the Charm of Mana.
Things that are different but I don't consider problems:
1. The Quest Guards in the final scenario are switched (meaning the Sentinel's Shield guard requires the Spyglass etc.).
2. The Charm of Mana is always available in "Deal With the Devil", So if you choose it as the second scenario (which is the default choice) You don't actually have to find the Badge of Courage in "Steadwick's Liberation" to get the relic in the final scenario. This is surely a bug but it also exists in the original RoE.
If anyone is interested, I have uploaded a file in which I corrected <5> and <6>, so now you can actually get the Thunder Helmet without cheating. In "Neutral Affairs", I replaced the Badge of Courage with the Glyph of Gallantry. Not a bad trade if you consider that the mind spell immunity will hardly be valuable in this scenario.
The file is from the HoMM3 Complete (downloaded from gog.com), which may or may not be identical to the Shadow of Death version (I honestly don't know):
https://www.mediafire.com/file/e2yx01luuvrr2qy/H3bitmap.zip/file
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RubberLotus
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 11, 2024 03:58 AM |
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Hi!
I dunno if you ever got the DM I sent - or if you're looking at this forum at all anymore - but I just wanted to let you know how glad I am someone not only identified this issue, but managed to dissect and fix it!
(I'm curious, did you ever find any other bugs like this in Heroes III? Not the ones that sometimes pop up and softlock gameplay or make it crash or whatever, but ones that consistently render sidequests and the like completely unplayable?)
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