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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: AI heroes that retreat don't come back
Thread: AI heroes that retreat don't come back
Haunter7
Haunter7

Tavern Dweller
posted February 26, 2024 05:24 PM

AI heroes that retreat don't come back


Already asked this in the official HotA thread but it's important and urgent so decided to make a separate post.

So I played a long game on a giant map (random templates), the enemy heroes kept getting weaker and weaker - apparently some of the latest updates prevents AI from getting back their heroes that retreated, they're lost forever. This makes solo games completely pointless, especially the large size maps. Any idea if there's a setting to change it back somewhere, or can I roll back the version of the game or something?

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Juas
Juas


Hired Hero
posted March 03, 2024 02:48 AM

I think that's sadly a new "rule" of 1.7.0. Strong heroes don't come back to the tavern. :/

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted March 03, 2024 02:15 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 14:25, 03 Mar 2024.

Yeah! And it was a terrible decision. It probably screws dozens of custom maps, where you have quests for or are supposed to hire defeated heroes like for instance Gelu in Paragorn.
Besides that, one of the tricks I've used often to make AI progressively stronger is to limit the number of heroes they can hire, so they get rehired over and over. If this is not optional, they will end up without any heroes instead.
P.S. I'm trying not engage in too much paranoia but it seems it was made on purpose to screw some of my maps where you are supposed to abuse the Invite.Tavern tweak, like "Time of Contempt"
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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted March 03, 2024 04:11 PM

Are we sure this also affects AI? Or maybe it only affects human players?

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gatecrasher
gatecrasher


Famous Hero
posted March 03, 2024 04:37 PM
Edited by gatecrasher at 16:40, 03 Mar 2024.

The change introduced in 1.7 only affects defeated heroes. It shouldn't affect retreated heroes. Otherwise retreating would have been removed from the game effectively.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted March 03, 2024 05:01 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 06:20, 04 Mar 2024.

Yes, you can retreat. But if you dismiss a level 2 hero, he disappears from the heroes pool forever. Plus, it isn't clear what they mean by "strong hero", I dismissed several level 1 with new SSs and they return, tried with Achilles in "Kill the Gods", level 1, all SSs at Expert, 60/60/20/10. Gone. Gave +2 of Knowledge and Estates to some that returned, thought spells to Adelaide (with Advanced Wisdom) before that, gone.
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Ghost
Ghost


Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
posted March 03, 2024 05:29 PM

An odd idea, right? The Dead Ornament rumour says "Have you heard that Scholar is cruel to buy and abandon heroes again?" Strategy!
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Haunter7
Haunter7

Tavern Dweller
posted March 03, 2024 08:32 PM
Edited by Haunter7 at 20:48, 03 Mar 2024.

I've found the cause myself, and the fix as well.

As I mentioned, the games I played were random ones created on map templates. Originally those templates spawn a TON of Prisons on the map, and my personal tests showed that those objects let AI go over the usual hero limit (21). The AI can NOT hire any new hero when there's 21 or more AI heroes globally on the map (it's commonly believed that the 21 cap includes human heroes as well, I've discovered it's not the case, the number only applies to AI heroes, at least in HotA 1.7). As a result, none of the retreated heroes can be bought back, since with so many Prisons there's always way more than 21 heroes present if u're playing against 3 or more AI players.

What I did was edit the map template to completely disable Prisons, then created a map using that edited template, every single relevant hero was then bought back by the AI after they flee, sometimes even the very same turn if they were the one to initiate an attack. To my surprise and relief, even if the AI wasn't the one to take their turn first, the other AIs still never hired a new hero before them, which would block the one that has their turn after them from rehiring the hero as there would already be 21 heroes on the map. The one that had lost their hero always got a chance to get them back. In my current game some heroes have already been bought back 2-3 times and they continue coming back everytime.

Would still prefer if there was another way to overcome the issue, preferably some patch/mod that lets AI bypass the 21 hero limit, but disabling Prsions works as an effective temporary fix at least

I'm enjoying the current game much, much more than the ones before. Thank u guys for showing interest!

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Juas
Juas


Hired Hero
posted April 12, 2024 01:51 PM

But it would be nice to know the way to undo the "Defeated strong heroes dissapear from the game" thing, I always liked that sometimes you got a nice surprise on the tavern. Also their artifacts dissapear with them.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted April 12, 2024 02:44 PM

Juas said:
But it would be nice to know the way to undo the "Defeated strong heroes dissapear from the game" thing, I always liked that sometimes you got a nice surprise on the tavern. Also their artifacts dissapear with them.
Even if personally I hate the nice surprises.
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