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| Thread: Does anyone make/edit maps here? | |
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FrogsUnion
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 08, 2025 03:03 AM |
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Does anyone make/edit maps here?
I'm a bit tired of HotA's random generator, seems to be worse than earlier versions. I just want to play a grand, hopefully perfect, random game. Editing a generated map myself is out of the question, since 1) I don't know that, and 2) it'll spoil all the secrets. Is there anyone of the forum that can help? I'll provide details.
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FdgK
Known Hero
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posted March 08, 2025 09:44 AM |
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There are thousands of maps online that you can download. For example on the page maps4heroes. I'm sure that you can find loads of maps there that fit the criteria that you are looking for and that you have never played/seen.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted March 08, 2025 10:00 AM |
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There is no such thing as the perfect map/template, some want AI players nearby, others want them unable to attack until late, some want powerful relics early, others want powerful spells banned and so on.
To get your perfect setup, only one solution : make it yourself. Or accept compromise.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted March 08, 2025 10:14 AM |
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FrogsUnion said:
Is there anyone of the forum that can help? I'll provide details.
I can, it has been my modus operandi for years even if I edit the maps myself.
But I guess this isn't what you really want. The best way to get great random maps for HotA is to learn how to use the RMG Template Editor and make them yourself. I can send you some templates or maps I've made, if you are ok with sharing an email with a total stranger
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FrogsUnion
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 08, 2025 12:03 PM |
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bloodsucker said:
I edit the maps myself.
But I guess this isn't what you really want.
Actually that's exactly what I want: to have a well-templated random map edited for even better details. I'll try sending you an instant message after this post (not used to this forum yet).
Questions:
1. Is it possible to edit the day-1 heroes in tavern?
2. Are there terminologies popular in editing? For example, what is an area with an unclaimed town called? Staging area? Neutral area?
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted March 08, 2025 12:13 PM |
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FrogsUnion said:
what is an area with an unclaimed town called?
Neutral area.
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FrogsUnion
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 10, 2025 06:07 AM |
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I sent you a message through the "Send e-mail" function, but idk if you've received or replied or not. There's no indication in my UI of the site.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted March 10, 2025 11:39 AM |
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I don't use that email anymore, so I wouldn't notice but I've checked now and there is nothing there.
Did u checked the addresses I've sent you? They contain all I know and what I'm still trying to learn.
While I'm not quitting to help if you need, after a second reading I don't believe you want the same thing I've been doing. All my templates are purposely uneven and intended to be buffed for AI with timed events giving extra resources daily. Correct me if I'm wrong but this is not what you have in mind.
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FrogsUnion
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 11, 2025 07:49 AM |
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my ideal map
Well, I can do with extra resources for AI, as long as other things I want are met. I'll post them here for anyone interested:
A} Map info
1> Template: anything works. I mostly play default (but it’s not working)
2> Size: huge (180)
3> Number of players: if there exists some (uncomplicated) way to have more than 8, then I’d love to try 11, each for 1 town type. However, I think it’s outside of HotA’s mod/add-on scope, so I’ll assume 8 for the below.
4> Alignment: 1 v 7 (all AI allied)
5> Road: fastest (is it cobblestone?)
6> Water: normal
7> Monster: strong
8> Victory: is it feasible to include as many conditions as possible? I’d like to have some flavors in addition to ‘defeat all enemies’. So when you complete any 1 of them, you win
9> Difficulty: king
B} Advanced options
1> Red: Conflux – Luna – gold
2> Orange: Factory
3> Teal: Cove (these 2 color choices are matching their terrains with the flags, so it’s easier to keep track of AI)
4> Fill in others to maximize the number of different terrains. Thus, Fortress is out because there’s already Cove. Only Castle or Rampart will make it in. Still, there are 9 terrains for 8 players, so whichever being left out is up to you. Please add it as an unclaimed town.
5> Other config (time, tournament…): vanilla
C} My preference
1> Underground size: please delete at least half of the subterranean area. I’m not a fan of seeing a town on non-native terrain (an underground Tower is just horrible). Since the lower level can only house Dungeon and Inferno (and possibly Necropolis, if we stretch our imagination and add dirt to the thing), it shouldn’t be as big.
2> Map philosophy as a whole: should have everything, which means
i] Terrain: has all kinds
ii] Objects: has all, too. It’s a shame I’m never able to recruit Faerie dragons during random maps. Also their oceans are severely lacking & boring. All in all, default templates suffer from the problem of having too many generic objects and nowhere enough unique stuff. If possible, please make the object go according to its terrain. For example, Frozen cliff has an ice affinity and is best placed in a snowy zone.
iii]Artifacts: everything except assembled ones. For each combination, there should be 2 instances of each component saved for the most important one, which has 1. For example, there can be 2 bliss necklaces, 2 wonder armors, 2 saint sandals, 2 judgment swords, 2 lion shields, but only 1 enlightenment helm. I imagine that this helm is placed in a zone of somewhat equidistant to every player, along with key pieces of other combinations. Whoever gets there 1st and is able to fend off competition, will have a greater chance of assembling artifacts.
3> Grail: please make sure it isn’t inside any AI zones. With the setting of 1v7, it could be that they visit 7 or more obelisks in the 1st week, and dig in the 2nd.
4> Movement
i] Road: the more the merrier. This may sound obvious, but every town must be accessible via 1 global, interconnected road system. Recently I encountered some random map which divided it into 2 or 3 systems, something I’ve never experienced with older versions’ template.
ii] Monoliths:
* Are reasonably placed. I saw some maps having 3-4 monoliths concentrated in a very small area, whereas other big zones don’t have even one.
* Adding a few 1-way monoliths might spice up things a bit, but I think 2 or 3 are enough for the whole map.
5> My starting zone
i] General scheme: I much prefer the ‘open plan’ as opposed to having barriers (rocks, trees, mountains, flowers, etc.) shaping the way.
ii] Connectivity: has roads, ideally spread in 4 directions, to:
* A big-ocean shipyard
* A neutral zone, which then connects to 1 or 2 enemies
* A monolith, which teleports to a neutral zone that leads to 0-1 enemies
* A subterranean gate, which opens to another neutral zone and then 1-2 enemies. Let’s call these 3 neutral zones the staging areas. Combined, there are a total of 1-2 unclaimed towns in them.
* (An unroaded opening to yet another neutral zone & an unroaded sub-gate are optional. I’m happy enough already if I have the 4 roads)
iii]Locked heroes
* The starting zone has Elmore in prison
* The 3 staging areas each has either Crag, Tazar, and Orrin
iv] Learnability: combined, the starting zone & staging areas have at least 1 instance of every stat-related objects (uni, knowledge tree, lib of enlightenment, scholar, marletto, learning stone, revelation garden, camp, arena, colosseum, star axis, witch hut, etc. Please correct me if I miss anything). Starting zone has at least gazebo & hermit shack. It’s best if the witch hut teaches logistics 😊
v] Monster strength: the 3 staging areas have different levels of difficulty
* 1 is like free-for-all, where resources are just left unattended on & both sides of the road. Gold mine, alchemist lab, warehouses…are just lightly guarded
* Another is like normal in a random map
* The last is a high-risk high-reward zone where valued stuff is guarded by level 7, 6, 5 (or 4) creatures
vi] Tavern
* Has Grindan (or Brissa, depending on the mage guild’s spell availability)
* The other depends on the layout of the starting zone, according to this priority
- If it doesn’t have enough gold for early capitol, then Leena
- If inadequate in mercury, then Rissa
- If both facets are good, then Bron
Thanks!
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted March 11, 2025 12:35 PM |
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Yeah! I don't have any template that does all this or that would be easy to modify to get it all.
On the other hand, you can choose the faction for each color at start, in Advanced Options, Random Generated maps shouldn't have Water since the algorithm doesn't work well with that (this info is top on the links I've sent you) and you can remove artifacts from the template or a certain zone but the only way to make them unique is to make them target of a seer's hut.
I agree that the grail should be in player's area but you have to edit each map and place it there (you can give a vast area in the grail options. Same goes for heroes in prisons, you'll have to open the map and place those heroes there. I would disable all the heroes you want in prisons from the template and then enable them on each map and place them in prisons, where you want them (that's what I do with Gelu and Dracon).
You use the connections on the template to define how many exits there will be for an area, namely the starting one. Use Template>Settings>Objects to add rules defining how many "Hero Upgrade" objects you want of each type. You have to do it one by one but it can be defined for the template (all zones have the same settings) and then modified for a specific zone.
Monsters strength vary from None to Strong, you can only modify this by changing the value of the connection or some specific objects, like Treasury and Dragon Utopia. It doesn't work for dwellings, their value is fixed.
In each area, in the third page, Content, there is a section with three lines named Treasure. The values in this lines determine the values of single and composed objects for that zone. If you use values above 35000 and in the Objects page add a rule saying Magic Forests have a high frequency (like 900) and a maximum number of three, you'll get three Magic Forests in that zone.
The only way I see to enforce Grindan in tavern is to disable/inprison all other Conflux heroes.
I hope I've been of some help.
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FrogsUnion
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 13, 2025 07:26 AM |
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Sure, that's a ton of useful info. It seems nigh impossible to include all the conditions I listed earlier, but 90% of them might make it. Could you design a template for this? I gave up after being overwhelmed by the editor.
Out of curiosity, have you guys ever played a map which embraces the 'everything' philosophy - that is, having all kinds of objects & terrains & artifacts possible in it?
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted March 13, 2025 10:49 AM |
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You need to select your own template, not Default, for it to be used.
There is a new object that will give you a Horn but you have to include it with a rule.
Besides that, edit templates like Clash of Dragons to see how other rules were implemented. You need to understand the basics to make your own template, I could do it for you but it would be a back and forth, if you don't know what and how to change it and I'm lacking time right now, it might take many weeks for me to finish such thing (it would be my lowest priority).
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted March 13, 2025 11:45 AM |
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bloodsucker said:
I'm lacking time right now
What you could do, for the benefit of many others to come, is to create a thread where analyze in detail how a template works, step by step, what you found. Then others will add their own tricks.
As I said earlier, we are never better served than by ourselves, and what we lack right now is having a view of templates mechanics.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted March 13, 2025 12:42 PM |
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Someone much more organized, intelligent and knowledgeable of the matter then I already did that here: Template Format
But you can't learn if you don't read the documentation and try for yourself.
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FrogsUnion
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 16, 2025 07:46 AM |
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bloodsucker said:
I could do it for you but it would be a back and forth, if you don't know what and how to change it and I'm lacking time right now, it might take many weeks for me to finish such thing (it would be my lowest priority).
My thanks! Lowest or high or whatever priority, you're doing me a favor, so I really appreciate it - especially when I'm bad with this type of coding. Buzz me whenever you need some clarification or anything!
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FrogsUnion
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 01, 2025 08:50 AM |
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Oh, there's another detail I forgot to mention earlier. Please make it so that boats can disembark anywhere on land. Normally, in a random map, 90% of coastline is blocked by all kinds of obstacles, so boats can only reach them in a few spots. I'd like them to be mostly free. Thanks!
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