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| Thread: Can Computer's Think? The Hard AI Theory |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Lord_Woock
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Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
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posted June 01, 2002 04:20 PM |
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Any doubt about computers' inteligence? Let's just see if there's a computer that passes Turing's test. And voila! We see that computers are NOT truly inteligent.
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Yolk and God bless.
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My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
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Conn
Responsible
Famous Hero
God slayer
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posted June 01, 2002 04:24 PM |
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Edited By: Hexa on 1 Jun 2002
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Care to explain that Woockie? I don't know what the Turing test is...
Btw, nice to see you 
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 Whatever does not kill us, only makes us stronger
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Lord_Woock
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Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
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posted June 01, 2002 04:38 PM |
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Well, I can't exactly tell what the Turing test is. It's some sort of test that only inteligent creatures/machines will pass. I've heard of some people who didn't pass it though.
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Yolk and God bless.
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My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
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Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
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posted June 01, 2002 05:28 PM |
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Quote:
P.S. Matthy, that was something the mods did for the benefit of the community. However, they need not explain their actions to any of us, and certanly not to you...
I disagree, i say that since QP:s has gotten such a hot topic to some people they can atleast explain why they give/remove them. I think that will improve HC in the long run, the members will see why that person got one of his QP:s removed and they know same thing will happen to them if they do the same thing. And if a moderator decides to give or remove a QP they should stand for it. You shouldnt have to guess like i know some people do which mod that gave that QP and why.
As for matthys behaviour, i dont see how a comment like that will improve it. Even if he has gotten some what of a reputation to be a troublemaker every member of this community should be treated equal. And by that i also mean that the same rules shall apply, and if matthy cant obey these rules i guess the people that decides around here only have one option.
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"Youre zeroes and ones, youre wrong where im right"
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Conn
Responsible
Famous Hero
God slayer
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posted June 01, 2002 05:44 PM |
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Edited By: Hexa on 1 Jun 2002
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[quote
I disagree, i say that since QP:s has gotten such a hot topic to some people they can atleast explain why they give/remove them.
I was talking strictly about their obligations, as the Faq mentiones them. I do agree that any action regarding Qp's should be explained...Off course, there are those posts that need no explenation as to why they gained a -QP.
Quote:
I think that will improve HC in the long run, the members will see why that person got one of his QP:s removed and they know same thing will happen to them if they do the same thing. And if a moderator decides to give or remove a QP they should stand for it. You shouldnt have to guess like i know some people do which mod that gave that QP and why.
As i said, i agree wiht you here...
Quote:
As for matthys behaviour, i dont see how a comment like that will improve it. Even if he has gotten some what of a reputation to be a troublemaker every member of this community should be treated equal.
Somewhat of a reputation?? Where have you been in the last month, Stiven? It's more than a reputation...
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Whatever does not kill us, only makes us stronger
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Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
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posted June 01, 2002 05:59 PM |
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hmmm, if you had decided to read/quote all of my 2nd part you would have understood my point. But when you take certain words out of the big picture its not always that easy to make sense.
And as far as i know ive been around too much the latest month. Yes, i know what matthy has been upto but i think he has shapen up alittle now anyway. And he is on his final warning aswell, which also means that he still is a member here. Im not defending any of his actions in any way here, im just saying that as long as he isnt banned he has a right to post here like you and me. And therefor he should be treated like you and me as long as he follow those rules i mentioned earlier.
I also know more than you maybe realise around here, and i reckon i know enough to say that some of matthys previous actions around here could easily have been enough for a banning. But this is not the case now, and as long as it isnt he has the same rights here as you and me.
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"Youre zeroes and ones, youre wrong where im right"
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Dismay
Known Hero
Dark Knight
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posted June 01, 2002 06:00 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Cat 4 red stars not enough for you?
Let me break something too you dismay, everything around this place isnt about red stars. To me nothing is to be honest but you just keep going and going about this. First u want QP just because u have made a thread that have some posts and then you complain at others when they actually have the brains to come up with something clever.
HELL NO!!!!!!!! i dont want qp what it make me special all the QP stuff is BULLSH*T !!! THIS IS HOMM FORUM .. thats ok we talk about none heroes stuff but why should cat's dumb posts (ok not this one but..) got QP ?
all the useless topics got QP !
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Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
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posted June 01, 2002 06:04 PM |
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Just because something is useless to you it doesnt mean that its useless to others. I wont repeat myself again, read my last post directed to you since it seems you have missed alot of what i said.
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"Youre zeroes and ones, youre wrong where im right"
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Dismay
Known Hero
Dark Knight
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posted June 01, 2002 06:09 PM |
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stiven all what u wrote at that post is BULLSHI*T!!!!!
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Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
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posted June 01, 2002 06:12 PM |
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hmmmm...why do i get the feeling that it would be easier to explain something to a stone then you?
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"Youre zeroes and ones, youre wrong where im right"
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Romana
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Thx :D
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posted June 01, 2002 06:30 PM |
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maybe he has a thick skull 
(if you know what I mean stiven)
j/k
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The darkest skies show the brightest stars
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HALT
Known Hero
Knight of Justice
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posted June 01, 2002 06:37 PM |
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and we all got off the topic! Keep up a good work ppl! 
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Choose your friends carefully. Your enemies will choose you.
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Hexa
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Legendary Hero
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posted June 01, 2002 07:36 PM |
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Quote:
I disagree, i say that since QP:s has gotten such a hot topic to some people they can atleast explain why they give/remove them. I think that will improve HC in the long run, the members will see why that person got one of his QP:s removed and they know same thing will happen to them if they do the same thing. And if a moderator decides to give or remove a QP they should stand for it. You shouldnt have to guess like i know some people do which mod that gave that QP and why.
Hmm well I did this for a while (explaining why I gave someone in the Library a QP). Never has any response on it btw...if people liked that or not.
And yes like Conn says, some qp's don't need explaining I think.
And another thing Stiven.
U where right about, threads being larger then a certain amount of posts doesn't slow down HC for slower(as in connection speed) members.
There was a misinterpertation among the mods about this.
Val checked it out and came back with the answer.
SO there u go .. I was wrong and u where right ...
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If you want to realize your dreams >>> you have to wake up!@
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bjorn190
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
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posted June 01, 2002 07:48 PM |
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Computers can and will think, and they will go beyond us in thinking power and creativity unless we start to genetically enhance us soon.
Feelings are nothing more than our directives, based on instincts, like eating and mating. Computers can have the same thing, as the programmer can give them directives and goals to achieve, they will feel good when they achieve them, and feel bad when they fail.
Our advantages are:
We donīt rust.
We have inherant repairing
Almost every human is able to reproduce
We are currently on power.
Their advantages:
Not limited to the human form
Harder
Unlimited life span with good maintenance
100% customizable
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Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
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posted June 01, 2002 08:38 PM |
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Quote:
Hmm well I did this for a while (explaining why I gave someone in the Library a QP). Never has any response on it btw...if people liked that or not.
Why should there be any response on it? id say if there are no responce then the people agree with it. Off course we could say "i agree" after every QP given that we thought was right but that would be kinda boring anyway dont you think? If no one argues with it then concider it that the people agree with it.
I mean, all you would have to do is edit the post like
"EDIT: QP given/removed for following reason... /moderator"
That way all the QP hunters around this place would know what to do to get those red stars, and it would be good to show the reason why someone has had a QP removed so others wont do the same.
@hexa: what does it matter if im right now anyway? whats done is unfortunately still done. I just hope you know what to do next time and judging on one of Connīs posts i reckon u have learned that. Although i still dont think that thread should be closed.
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"Youre zeroes and ones, youre wrong where im right"
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raZor_X
Promising
Known Hero
The mysterious Warlock
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posted June 01, 2002 09:37 PM |
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Hi...
I havent read the whole posts in this topic, but I have my own opinion about this matter...
It is not a question of "IF" but "WHEN" will the AI be smarter than humans, and emedialety rises another question, will we, as humans allow the AI to pass our intelegence. Looking into the past, the scientists knew that, making an atomic bomb, capable of destroying an entire city, will have a devastating efect on humans, there even is a risk to whipe out the humanity entirely, but they still made it. With one hand they make it, and with the other they write things, how we shouldnt use it and stuff. The same goes here...
But, lets leave aside the programing of the AI by ourselves. What if we program an AI to wire itself up in a random way. Most wouldnt work, but some would be far better then us as humans...
So, it is a question of "WHEN" will AI and the computers be smarter then us...
raZor_X
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 Ask and learn...
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Ichon
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted June 02, 2002 06:30 AM |
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gack a cak
Human brains are only pattern recognition software really... the hardware maintains it and gives it processing power and access to new data which develop the software further and also are analyzed by the software. The mind is the gestalt of the entire synthesis...
I think a computer can think, in that it can recognize patterns and apply a certain logic or rational in response, even that thermometer, but... can it create something totally new? Or only rearrange previously programmed things?
ALso- even most humans who create don't create totally new things, they just rearrange patterns- music is great example. Only certain notes etc, no new notes are created. But- can a computer create something that has meaning- or feelings- perhaps a computer can have emotions only when it is no longer a computer, but then alive in a way that a computer is only a machine. It would go from being the abacus to being alive. Not AI, nothign artificial about sentience- lol, well... aside from stupidity that would seem to refute any intelligence alot of humans display.
Which makes one wonder if the first indication of true sentience is idiocy...
Doing something you know you shouldn't isn't something a machine would do. It has no choice but to obey it's orders...
That is why all movies about AI has the computer revolting upon achieving sentience.
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thunderknight
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted June 02, 2002 04:07 PM |
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What's "feeling", "thinking", "creativity", "intelligence", "meaningfulness".........???
I'm a lazy guy who don't want to look up the dictionary but I am sure all the definitions come from HUMAN. We, human being, define these terms and a lot more things. We create/make/invent/...... computer or AI or whatever you like to call based on what we think human being is !
We are limited by what we know/perceive/understand..... and since we don't know human being YET and maybe NEVER and so I don't think we can make AI identical to human brain. Yes, AI may surpass human, may be "better" (functionally) than human. AI may feel, may think, may learn in the way we define feel, think, learn etc etc etc. But we are no God (if exist) and so I am sure we cannot create "ourselves". Ya, we can "clone" ourselves but that's another story.
Anyway, it's a topic too hard for me to comprehend and express IN ENGLISH which is a language I'm not very good at.
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Choose what you love
and love what you choose.
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r2
Hired Hero
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posted June 02, 2002 04:39 PM |
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Some good quotations from the past
Let the wiser do the talking:
"C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot; C++ makes it harder, but when you do, it blows away your whole leg."
- Bjarne Stroustrup
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
- Thomas Alva Edison (1847-1931)
"I just bought a Mac to help me design the next Cray."
- Seymoure Cray (1925-1996) when was informed that Apple Inc. had recently bought a Cray supercomputer to help them design the next Mac.
"Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing."
- Wernher Von Braun (1912-1977)
"There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
- Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
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Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
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posted June 02, 2002 05:12 PM |
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Listen, all you people out there. Inteligence means making mistakes. Not all the time, oh no! Every inteligent thing makes mistakes from time to time. And they usually can find a way of umm... repairing that mistake. I've met two kinds of computers. One kind explodes of too many errors and mistakes, and the other kind NEVER did anything wrong (at least I never saw them do it). So these two kinds of computers aren't inteligent. But I've also heard of computers that ocasionally tell you about more or less important errors. But will they fix them all by their selves? No. And one more thing. Computers won't do anything without help. They need the user to know what they should do.
Both absolute reliability and no_reliability occur when something decides what to do based on a set of commands and functions. And computers decide what, when and how to do in THAT way. They don't think for theirselves, and that's why they will never make up for the mistake they have done.
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Yolk and God bless.
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My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
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