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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: Good tricks to use
Thread: Good tricks to use This thread is 10 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 · «PREV / NEXT»
Wub
Wub


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted September 25, 2002 11:13 PM

Quote:

A nice little addition to the illusion trick for order.



And here is a nice little addition to the nice little addition. This trick focuses upon making the above mentioned combo available faster. Four stacks of one genie can effectively cast mass slow against neutral monsters. And instead of casting illusion, your magi can do the damage by casting poison. When your opponent finally arrives at your genies/magi/halflings/low level mage, you start casting song of peace and possibly magic fist/raise skeleton.

The advantage of this tactic is that it can be pulled off really early in the game -as soon as you have 4 genies, if need be 3- while you can devour considerable armies. Even shooters and spellcasters are possible to take. A normal sized stack of behemothes/hydras becomes cannonfodder(!). Also, if you experiment a bit, you can think of some nice variations such as casting mirth on halflings etc. Not bad to start like that in your first week!
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Lich_King
Lich_King


Honorable
Supreme Hero
posted September 29, 2002 11:20 PM

Hi ! I have one trick that helps a lot !

How to cast Armageddon without creature lost ?
(this works only one time, but it is good for cleaning mine guards and etc.)

1.You must have at least 2-7 phoenixes. Split them into quantity of 1 per slot. Then cast armageddon, kill all creatures on the combat screen and all phoenixes will rebirht with having 55 HP
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Khaelo
Khaelo


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Underwater
posted September 30, 2002 08:04 PM

how to cast Armageddon w/out losing stuff

2.  Bring along Black Dragons and/or a GM Resistance hero.  They can accompany an Armageddon-happy spellcaster with no problems at all.

3.  Leave your Efreeti at home.  It's not a fire-based spell anymore, and they're toast.  Very expensive toast, I might add.
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 Cleverly
disguised as a responsible adult

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Wub
Wub


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted October 02, 2002 03:38 PM
Edited By: Wub on 2 Oct 2002

Alternatives to increase income

On page 5 of this thread, I wrote that building a town hall and to a lesser extent a city hall isn't very attractive. This is an add-on post, which gives a summary of all ways to increase income:

Money increaser________________investment pays back in +/-:

Town hall______________________________20 days
City hall______________________________30 days
Lord___________________________________15/20/25 days (+nobility)
Thief__________________________________depends on map, needs Xp first
Peasant________________________________15 days+used as army
Conquering goldmine (early)_______________Depends on extra losses
Buying estates at university_____________20 days
Getting estates at veteran's guild________20 days
Getting second town (early)_______________depends on extra losses
Building mine from gold vein______________20 days

An addition: if your estates hero gets an extra level, he will automatically receive a bonus to his esatates skill.

It is very often best to invest in creatures and let that army clean your area. The economical gain you (can) get from that is:

-Treasure chests
-Goldmines
-Second towns
-Money increasing artifacts
-Experience for your lord hero and thief hero (even when you don't let them fight, you can make learning stones available)

I strongly advise to build creatures rather than economical builds. Because with creatures you can often get your economy running AND protect your kingdom.

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daikon
daikon


Adventuring Hero
with great magic powers
posted October 10, 2002 06:16 AM

You have a point Wub.

The creatures also let you increase your heroes levels early, with can be used to boost your states to provide extra gold.

You may also clean up the way to Learning Stones, Dream Teathers or, as mentioned before, treasure chests, witch may help you to get extra exp.

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Wub
Wub


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted October 11, 2002 02:24 AM
Edited By: Wub on 10 Oct 2002

The defense/attack ratio

Glad that we agree again, Daikon

In this post I want to give a battle tactic 'trick' and tell something about the 'toughness' and 'strength' specialty. The link between both things is that they center around an essential creature statistic: the defense/attack ratio.

Do you remember the wolf raider from Heroes 3? It was a really offensive unit, dealing very high damage but being very fragile too. On the other hand, do you remember the zombie? A real tough and sturdy unit, with lots of hitpoints but not so great damage. Now which of the two units would you most like to spend your firepower on? If you had a magic arrow dealing 20 damage, would you rather take out two wolf raiders or one zombie?

Of course the answer is that you should generally aim at the wolf raiders. This is a universal principal in all strategy games, be it turn based or real time. You should normally focus on 'dangerous' units, or better said: units with a low defense/attack ratio. The defense/attack ratio tells you how many attacks a unit need to kill a unit which is exactly similar to itself. For example: the zombie from heroes 3 had a defense attack ratio of 8, so it needed 8 attacks to kill another zombie.

For people who are interested in mathematics, in heroes 4 defense/attack ratio is defined as follows:

(hitpoints of creature x defense skill)/(average damage x attack skill)

Note that I did not consider any creature specialties in the formula (actually they DO influence the ratio)!  Well, all this may not seem so important, but let's take at look at heroes 4. It appears that ALL units have a defense/attack ratio of almost exactly 5! This is deliberately implemented by the game designers. Well, actually there are a few exceptions to this rule.
Faerie dragons, magi and genies have a defense/attack ratio of 10. This is because their melee attack does half damage, which makes sense since they do magical damage.
Behemoths and zombies respectively have a lower and a higher defense/attack ratio too. You will probably suspect why: because of the strength and toughness ability! And now you also see how those abilities work.

The toughness skill of the zombies is already implemented in their 100% extra hitpoints, so it does not give a bonus on top of this high hitpoints number.
The strength skill of the behemoth is already implemented in their 50% higher base damage, so it does not give an other bonus on top of that.

Now let's go back to the normal creatures of Heroes 4 with their d/a ratio of 5. Does this mean that there is no differrence upon which creature you aim your firepower? No. Some defensive special abilities increase the d/a ratio and offensive abilities will decrease the ratio. For example: berserkers have the two attacks specialty. Therefore they need a lot less attacks to finish an other berserker. Other offensive specialties are: charge, strength, spellcaster, stone gaze, devouring and area attack. This will make it desirable to aim on such creatures.
On the other hand, defensive specialties such as the minotaur's block increase the number of attacks needed to kill a similar creature. Other defensive specialties are: insubstantial, stone skin, chaos/life/death ward, toughness and fire/cold resistance. Creatures with such specialties will make aiming for them less desirable.

Conclusion: You should generally focus on creatures with an offensive creature specialty. No matter if they are level 1 or level 4.

Is this always so? No. You should always look at other factors as welln, such as if the creature is a direct threat for you. Or if you don't have overkill. But defense attack ratio should always be taken into consideration when you decide which creature to attack on the battlefield.

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daikon
daikon


Adventuring Hero
with great magic powers
posted October 16, 2002 03:45 AM

Hi Wub

Other thing I think you should consider is that the unit's defence does not influence the magic damage this unit suffers. This way you will prefer to aim your damage spells on creatures with high defence because your atacks will do less damage to the creature but your magic don't. This makes the high level creatures a desirable target to your damage spells since they usually have higher defence (ghosts may be good targets too, comprared to creatures of equal level).

What do you think?

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Wub
Wub


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted October 16, 2002 10:35 PM

Well, Daikon, I think...that I couldn't have said it any better. To give an idea how important it is:

One monk does 36 damage against a peasant.
One genie does 18 damage against a peasant.

One monk does 18 damage against a pikeman.
One genie does 18 damage against a pikeman.

One monk does 9 damage against a phoenix.
One genie does 18 damage against a phoenix.

One monk does 6 damage against a dark champion.
One genie does 18 damage against a dark champion.

That's why it makes a lot of difference to aim your magical attacks against units with high defense skill. And now it also becomes clear that hitpoints and defense skill do not offer the same protection.

For non-direct damage spells it is also easy to figure out where to use them. The 'slow' spell, for example, can affect a small stack as easily as a big stack. It also doesn't matter how powerful the caster of the spell is. So, it is better to let one genie cast the slow spell than to let 15 genies do it. That's why I often put a single genie in a free slot. Because genies are one of those few troops that are very useful in small numbers already.

The stack that is to be targeted should generally be as big as possible, of course. Why should you slow down a small stack if you can do the same to a big one? And because higher level units often are the strongest stack of an army, it is usually best to cast your detrimental spells on them. But that isn't really anything new of course.


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Daikon
Daikon


Adventuring Hero
with great magic powers
posted October 24, 2002 08:31 PM

Also, when you cast spells such as weakness, the higher level creatures will have a higher penalty than the weaker creatures, because weakness reduces a pencentage of the  creatures atack (25% in that case), and the higher level creatures have a higher atack. Of course, as Wub has said, we must consider the quantities too, and various other factors, such as witch creature is in a critical position in the battle, etc...

It will work with bloodlust, weekness, ghosts aging atack, disruptining ray, giant strenght, etc... choose your target well.

(Sorry for my bad english. It's not my mother language)

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Celfious
Celfious


Responsible
Legendary Hero
info free express
posted October 25, 2002 05:06 PM
Edited By: Celfious on 25 Oct 2002

1: Stealth ability can be used to get a portion of experience before you kill

2: Arch mage class can help or hurt. Know this before you get more magic skills

[a href=" http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?FID=4&TID=4488 " target=_blank] http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?FID=4&TID=4488 [/a]

3: Nobility is a most commonly used for a secondary hero with normal players

4: Before choosing a secondary skill be sure you know what CLASS your getting into

5: Fireguardís in a chaos town is useful. If you get Armageddon, your black dragons and efferent are down with fire. (Fireguard class + Armageddon +Black dragonís&effreet spells Lucifer against pathetic burning whiners J.



Town, resource, and army development

1: Caravanning peasants pay well in the LONG run

2: Order heroes give gold every day. They are helpful in a shorter long run.

3: Treasuries do have accumulative effects. (Each one payís)

4: Selling all resources is dangerous but can be highly useful in the beginning of games. Itís not dangerous near the end. Please if you have any sense, sell all resource you donít need during the game, and all resource before you go in for the win.



Map tricks

1: Level one-creature gofers. Use these guys as go-for. Theyíll pick up the petty resource piles & artifacts while you donít have to waste the time.

2: Level one creature scouts Have these guyís expand the FOG of war. Theyíre also useful as a watch. They ďreportĒ enemies coming near your stuff. Put a level one creature on a bridge, or path and no oneíll get by unnoticed [img src="images/smilies/tongue.gif" border=0]

3: Find the right path you can disperse level one creatures to find out the best path for your force. This is most useful, or force draining at the beginning of your fight.

4: Level 1 flaggers. If affordable, any hero can flag  things while you continue on your path not wasting time. (Stealth makes a good pick quality in flaggerís. Hmm [img src="images/smilies/tongue.gif" border=0] )

5: Fast goferís your selection in a gofer (See map trick1 & 3) is a fast one like imps or fairies

6: Set an army on watch less than max movement away from a castle. If you see a heavy force coming, you can go to your castle to provide, and get defense. Your creatures can make there way to your heroes watch post every day/week/month/ect.

7: More than one force this is necessary a lot of the timeís. You need more area of the map covered than having one hero running back and fourth between DEF, and OFF.

8: Use a scout faster than your hero to speed up your hero on the map. The faster unit's can be split away, and continue at their pace.
9: The enemy will upgrade your town if you "lend" it to the enemy. Might be useful if your broke.

What youíve been waiting for..

Battle tricks

1: IMPíS!! The feisty speedy mana drainerís can drain all MP from enemies. Create separate forces with one imp per stack (thatís 7 impís in one army filling each creature slot). Send these forces into battle w/enemy until he/sheís drained of all mana.

2: Hellfire again? Iíve said it before and Iíll say it again. (Character development trick # 5) Fireguard class + Armageddon +Black dragonís & effreet spells Lucifer against enemies on fire J.
2a: More hellfire. The pheonix's will be reborn, split them into stack's of one the fire it up

3: Wait! When you precede fourth 3 bad thingsí can happen

1: Long-range attackers donít get a long-range penalty

2: The rest of the enemiesí turns can choose to hit you

3: You miss the choice to hit them.

If you click wait on every creature/hero your not missing much. Youíll get the following

1: You get to shoot the enemies in the middle of the field

2: The choice to hit the enemies in the middle of the field.

3: + a little more rarities

Most of the time this is useful. Use your head to determine the right oneís and the wrong ones.

4: The right formation Go into battle with the right formation.

4+: have archers in the right place when defending a castle

If you have questionís about battle trick # 4 see my post on the second page of this thread.

5: Split level ones. Make use of empty slots with damage taking level one creature. They take the hitís, and save a little of your force.

6: Take out the crutch whatever the strongest force is in the enemies opposing Realize it and destroy. If a tactic hero is adding to the force, take him out. It probably saves a lot. If itís a magical hero, take him out.. ECT.. If you see the crutch kick it.

7: Illusions and phantom images
When you cast town The difference between 'create illusion' and 'phantom image' is that the latter can make duplicates that have exactly twice as many hitpoints as 'create illusion'. Otherwise there's no difference.

If you have not updated your game to version to 1.3, a phantom image will not add up to an illusion. If you have done so, phantom images will be created on top of illusions, also those that are made by genies.

Finally, keep in mind that illusions/phantom images have a magic resistance that differs from their duplicates. For instance, they completely disappear when 'dispel' or 'cancellate' is cast upon them. Also, never cast anti magic on them! They will not profit from spells such as 'precision' and 'mirth' either.

On the other hand, illusion and phantom images are immune to a good number of mind spells, such as cowardice, berserk, hypnotize and forgetfulness  plauge and town portal.

8: When Attacking a castle

Notethe enemy usually dose nothing but shoot and cast.

8aCast poison. Sometimes the enemy will sit to death. Poison requires no line of site for casting

8b Displacement pulls enemy stacks towards the wall where you can hit them.

9: Medusas stone gaze revealed

[a href=" http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?FID=4&TID=4286" target=_blank] http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?FID=4&TID=4286[/a]

10: Damage calculation

[a href="http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?FID=4&TID=4071" target=_blank]http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?FID=4&TID=4071[/a]

11: How alignmentís affect morale

[a href="http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?FID=4&TID=4383" target=_blank]http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?FID=4&TID=4383[/a]

A little on minitours ability

[a href="http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?FID=4&TID=5202" target=_blank]http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?FID=4&TID=5202[/a]



Pure magic tricks.

1: Town portal There is a town portal bug. Itís one of 2 bugsí I know of, which I will not report. Itís somewhere in the community, go find it.  (Sorry, Iím a hater of game sharks too)

2: Go for it!! This is not a tip, itís a vote of encouragement to use and get to know spells. These little beastís can win the game by themselves some timeís. Do not over look any of them, for few are useless. Some are deadly.

3: More about spellís

See these threadís

Quicksand explanation (How it workís-proper casting method)

[a href=" http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?FID=4&TID=4400" target=_blank] http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?FID=4&TID=4400[/a]

4: Path finding

[a href="http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?FID=4&TID=4221" target=_blank]http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?FID=4&TID=4221[/a]

Special qualities & effective combinations

(New thread in development)

[a href=" http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?FID=4&TID=5748" target=_blank] http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?FID=4&TID=5748[/a]



Please report anything I missed, broken link's or whatever you think I need to keep this list going.

Give more tips and stratigies. Focus more on basic fact in provided/unprovided thread's. This is for unprinted thing's experienced HOMM player's have seen, and choose to reveal.



Notes from wub-Really good one's on page 6 Wub knowz his ****


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tree
tree


Adventuring Hero
posted October 27, 2002 05:18 PM

This one is a popular bug...while sacrifice and hypnotize may be hard to get, martyr isn't!  And it actually can be even better than sacrifice.  Use it on a hypnotized enemy (strongest in their line), and let the protected unit go front and attack other enemies.  But the protected one will never lose health, and all the damage has been transferred to the hypnotized ones.  Meanwhile you can still use the 3 turns to attack enemy with it.  A better deal than sacrifice.  Hypnotized unit will still die eventually (when hypnotize is over and it tries to attack the protected unit, but it's just attacking itself), but it will minimize the damage.

Another common trick is plague plus sanctuary..but it's hard to get and only good for certain situations.  Watch your life and nature enemy die slowly is always fun.  
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Largo_LeGrande
Largo_LeGrande


Promising
Known Hero
from the Carribean
posted October 27, 2002 06:34 PM

Quote:
This one is a popular bug...while sacrifice and hypnotize may be hard to get, martyr isn't!  And it actually can be even better than sacrifice.  Use it on a hypnotized enemy (strongest in their line), and let the protected unit go front and attack other enemies.  But the protected one will never lose health, and all the damage has been transferred to the hypnotized ones.  Meanwhile you can still use the 3 turns to attack enemy with it.  A better deal than sacrifice.  Hypnotized unit will still die eventually (when hypnotize is over and it tries to attack the protected unit, but it's just attacking itself), but it will minimize the damage.

Another common trick is plague plus sanctuary..but it's hard to get and only good for certain situations.  Watch your life and nature enemy die slowly is always fun.  


I'm sorry, but neither of these combos work in the 2.0 version.

1.You cannot cast martyr nor sacrifice on a hypnotised stack, but now you can cast direct damage spells to them.

2. The Sanctuary will last for a few turns and the hero can't cast it for few turns.
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-Largo has spoken-

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Nidhgrin
Nidhgrin


Honorable
Famous Hero
baking cookies from stardust
posted October 28, 2002 10:02 AM

Cancellation and mass cancellation successfully cancels pre-combat used immortality potions.  Credit for this trick goes to sos

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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted October 28, 2002 10:38 PM
Edited By: csarmi on 29 Oct 2002

Of course it does, what did you think? :-)
I hope it is clear now. No offense.

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daikon
daikon


Adventuring Hero
with great magic powers
posted October 29, 2002 05:51 AM

Quote:
Of course it does, what did you think?


Do not get mad at him. I am sure there are people who didnīt have this knowledge, and any usefull information is welcome.

As a complementation: Dispel also works on pre-casted spells. I didnīt test steal enchantment yet, it would be nice to know. I am without heroes in this computer, so I am sure one of you guys will come with the answer.

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japjer
japjer


Adventuring Hero
posted October 29, 2002 08:22 AM

Quote:
Quote:
Of course it does, what did you think?


Do not get mad at him. I am sure there are people who didnīt have this knowledge, and any usefull information is welcome.

As a complementation: Dispel also works on pre-casted spells. I didnīt test steal enchantment yet, it would be nice to know. I am without heroes in this computer, so I am sure one of you guys will come with the answer.


yup, it works, and it's great (when you're the one casting it), you automaticly get guardian angel cast on one of your creatures. not sure if it gives several lives, the one time i used it against someone was against a GM priest, so it could be either the spell or the potion.

so my question, when immortality potion is stolen with steal enchantment and cast on a creature, does it work as 1 extra life or several (like guardian angel does)?

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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted October 29, 2002 11:21 AM
Edited By: csarmi on 29 Oct 2002

It seems to be 1 extra life no matter what.

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daikon
daikon


Adventuring Hero
with great magic powers
posted October 29, 2002 04:58 PM

Immortality potions works the same way as guardian angel. I am quite sure that it would give several lifes to a creature (when it is stolen, of course) as guardian angel does.

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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted October 29, 2002 05:50 PM

Quote:
Immortality potions works the same way as guardian angel. I am quite sure that it would give several lifes to a creature (when it is stolen, of course) as guardian angel does.


Hey, I've tried it and it doesn't!
It looks like:
Immortality potion ~ Level 1 Guardian Angel

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Wub
Wub


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted October 30, 2002 05:22 PM
Edited By: Wub on 30 Oct 2002

Dispelling immortality potions

Did you know that immortality potions can only be temporarily dispelled? When the battle ends, your hero is still under influence of the potion.

Maybe giving an example clarifies this. Let's assume that your barbarian with grandmaster resistance who has drunk one immortality potion before combat, attacks some evil eyes. When the barbarian gets hit, the evil eyes automatically cast cancellation upon your barbarian, because it's the only spell that works against him. So, your immortality potion is dispelled. But after you win the combat, your will get your immortality potion back again. So in the next battle, your hero is still under the protection of one extra life, just as if nothing happened.

By the way, some units enter battle with a precast spell too. Stone gargoyles for example, have stone skin cast upon them. It's just too bad that this spell cannot be cancellated, dispelled, or stolen. Would be funny

On another note, it's nice to see a summary of all tricks so now and then. Great work, Celfious
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