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| Thread: Improved creatures without creature XP and levels | |
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted July 06, 2002 12:13 PM |
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Improved creatures without creature XP and levels
I noticed that this topic didn't seem to be covered, and rather than continuing this discussion in a seemingly unrelated thread, I've created a new thread for this.
Adding levels to creatures complicates game-play a lot because of consideration on what happen when you join or split stacks of different levels and XP. Therefore stack sizes of bigger than one and creature XP just don’t go along well.
This doesn’t mean that creatures cannot become better fighters in combat, but it means that a creature XP/upgrades is best hidden with things that are singular. The two most straight-forward ways to implement an easy XP or Upgrade system is through Heroes or Artifacts.
For Heroes it can be done by introducing a Creature Speciality for the Hero. This speciality can increase attack, defence, speed, morale etcetera when the Hero and creature are present on the battlefield. The Hero could also grant the creature a new special ability.
The speciality could either be purchased with the hero or be trained at special Map locations. A hero would only be able to specialise in creatures of the same alignment as the hero. The bonus that the hero bestows may or may not depend on the Hero’s level.
For Artifacts they can work in several ways. One way is to have the Artifact accumulate XP (whenever there are fighting creatures of the appropriate sort on the battlefield) rather than the creature stack. This would remove the problems you get when you want to add or remove creatures from the stack, since the XP no longer is associated to the stack. The benefit the Artifacts gives would only depend on the XP it has accumulated. Not on the amount of creatures it is to affect.
Another is to have an Artifact give a bonus to a certain creature’s combat values, or it could give a certain creature a special ability. Relics could even give every creature a certain ability like First Strike or could give creatures with Spellcasting ability access to a new spell. These effects are best as additional effects to another existing effect, as the Artifact would be useless otherwise. (And useless Artifacts is something I don’t like.)
Both Heroes and Artifacts could be made to upgrade certain creatures, the same way as Dracon or Gelu works. In heroes 4 there are very few creatures which can be upgraded like this so each upgrade of this type would likely result in a new creature altogether.
One thing, which is good with this approach is that the creature’s appearance doesn’t have to change. It’s still the same creature.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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Darkspirit
Famous Hero
aka Zutus
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posted July 06, 2002 11:00 PM |
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I think that giving new permanent abilities to creatures through artifacts might just not work. The creatures wouldn't be unique anymore. What's the use of chosing tigers over elves, if the elves would have first strike too?
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Young moles appear to be in full dispersal which means there are more moles per acre than at any other time of the year
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted July 06, 2002 11:42 PM |
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Quote:
I think that giving new permanent abilities to creatures through artifacts might just not work. The creatures wouldn't be unique anymore. What's the use of chosing tigers over elves, if the elves would have first strike too?
The elves actually already have first strike for their ranged attack.
And first strike is far from a unique ability. Isn't there a handful (or even more creature that have it?)
And there is already two spells that already gives all your creatures first strike, and two more that gives the ability to one creature. So having an artifact to copy these spells is not that big a step to take.
The artifact isn't that big deal. It would be availible perhaps in one map out of 5, perhaps less. So it wouldn't be common enough for you to build a strategy around it.
And remember the same thing can be achieved by casting one single spell. And that doesn't make the creatures less unique.
The artifact doesn't need to copy an existing effect or special ability. It can be something new and unique. Say an acid or electrical attack.
Besides, even if you copy an effect such as the Squire's ability to stun to a creature like a Naga, then the Naga wouldn't be identical to the squire would it? For one thing the Squire doesn't have "No retaliation", and the stats for the two creatures are very different, and the creatures don't have the same alignement.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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Darkspirit
Famous Hero
aka Zutus
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posted July 07, 2002 12:04 AM |
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well, I'm not saying it's a bad idea. But I think some units might get useless then.
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Young moles appear to be in full dispersal which means there are more moles per acre than at any other time of the year
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted July 07, 2002 12:17 AM |
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Quote:
well, I'm not saying it's a bad idea. But I think some units might get useless then.
Well, if you know which artifacts are on the map then perhaps. However, you will need to make your builds (at least in start town) before you know which artifacts are on the map.
So therefore the artifacts will strengthen creatures that you already have, rather than deciding which creatures you select.
And anyway, isn't it always so that in each game one of the creatures choices is better than the other? In some cases you don't know which is better in the start of the game, but one of the choices could turn out useless just because you're fighting the wrong faction.
An artifact/hero ability to give Nagas a new good special might actually be a good idea to return some balance between Genies and Nagas.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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Darion
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted July 07, 2002 04:43 AM |
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I like this idea. It might also help to bring in the lower level creatures more if they have a special ability (even something like casting mirth or fortune)
Moderator's note:This topic has been closed, as it refers to an older version of the game. To discuss Heroes 3, please go to Library Of Enlightenment, to discuss Heroes 4, please go to War Room Of Axeoth.
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