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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: AI is even dumber than I thought
Thread: AI is even dumber than I thought
dale
dale


Known Hero
posted August 25, 2002 07:10 PM

AI is even dumber than I thought

I recently played one of the "team" games from the CD.  There were two computer colors on my team, and so I got to watch them move around.  I also could enter the interaction screen (the one where you might trade items or troops between two heros).

Some things I noticed that I had not seen before that shows just how dumb the AI is:

A hero would get killed (tombstone on the ground) and it would be left laying there for a long time, even when other stacks would go by and look at it.

There was a lot of just running around, back and forth, with no purpose.   It was not until the very end game that the computer attempted to cross the portal to the other side where the enemy was.

And for the dumbest thing of all --- the computer did not equip the artifacts it collected!!!!!
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Nernug
Nernug


Adventuring Hero
posted August 25, 2002 09:32 PM

Yes and that's why it's so damn annoying that Mplayer is so late.
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Soulblighter
Soulblighter


Hired Hero
Awww
posted August 26, 2002 02:54 PM

hmm - another one of those "glitch in the system" things - yeah - that was kinda dumb of the AI.
It doesn't surprise me one bit (even if I haven't played yet "team" maps), but what's the connection between that and the fact that Mplayer is late? Mplayer isn't about AI - or at least that's what I think...
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haile73
haile73


Promising
Famous Hero
posted August 27, 2002 12:54 PM
Edited By: haile73 on 27 Aug 2002

Well, the connection is that HoMM4 isn't a game yet.

Because it takes a challenge to be a game. The A"I" doesn't give me a challenge (not even a little bit) and I can't play vs. humans due to the lack of multiplayer.

So the only option is hotseat, but it's very unlikely to find somebody who likes the game AND is living nearby
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Wub
Wub


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted August 27, 2002 04:40 PM

Shouldn't the 'I' in 'AI' mean Intelligence??

Quote:

And for the dumbest thing of all --- the computer did not equip the artifacts it collected!!!!!



Whoa!! That's pretty lame indeed. But on second thought I remember something like that it is fixed in version 1.3. Am I wrong or weren't you playing version 1.3?

From my co-op games with the AI, I remember that the computer hardly picked up any free resources. And what is even worse, when deciding what structures to build, the AI didn't seem to care about what buildings where the ones it needed. Instead, it built a level 2 mage guild right from the moment it was able to. And after that immediately a level 3 mage guild. In other words: he didn't save any cash for more expensive and useful buildings and ended up with an abbey and a level 5 mage guild but no creature dwellings whatsoever. That was the last game I played with the AI  
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dale
dale


Known Hero
posted August 27, 2002 07:22 PM

Quote:
Quote:

And for the dumbest thing of all --- the computer did not equip the artifacts it collected!!!!!



Whoa!! That's pretty lame indeed. But on second thought I remember something like that it is fixed in version 1.3. Am I wrong or weren't you playing version 1.3?



 I have applied the version 1.3 patch.  

Quote:

From my co-op games with the AI, I remember that the computer hardly picked up any free resources. And what is even worse, when deciding what structures to build, the AI didn't seem to care about what buildings where the ones it needed. Instead, it built a level 2 mage guild right from the moment it was able to. And after that immediately a level 3 mage guild. In other words: he didn't save any cash for more expensive and useful buildings and ended up with an abbey and a level 5 mage guild but no creature dwellings whatsoever. That was the last game I played with the AI  


 I just found that out also when I took over some towns from the enemy.   They had level 5 mage guilds and not much else.   Doesn't make too much sense<G>.

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dragonsister
dragonsister

Hero of Order
MapHaven administrator
posted August 28, 2002 04:53 AM

I'd guess that the AI is asking itself not "What do I most want to build, and how can I best get there?" but "Is there anything I can build at the moment?" - note that building up mage guilds is now very cheap!  And *if* you have heroes of high enough level to learn the spells, building mage guilds *should* be a very highly weighted priority ... however, a mage guild more than one level higher than your most talented hero can learn from is *almost* a waste of money at that point.  (Not entirely.  A L5 mage guild always renews all hero spell points immediately - making all those spell point renewal sites look under-powered!)

I often forgo a build one day because I'm saving for a more important one the next.  (or the next, or ... L4 dwellings *rock*!)  So how could one teach the AI to do that?  Pretty complex decision-tree ... you'd have to be scoring the 'utility' of a dwelling based on circumstances, like army size c.f. opposing stacks, positions and skill levels and available spell-points of heroes relative to the town itself, potential to delay construction of high-score dwellings (in particular L4 dwellings), and the allowed and disallowed dwellings already in the lineup - e.g. if the Cloud Castle is disallowed, building the Castle is less of a priority.  That's a possible qualitative solution - getting the humbers right would undoubtedly take a lot of testing.

DragonSister
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IYY
IYY


Responsible
Supreme Hero
REDACTED
posted August 28, 2002 05:58 AM

This also shows in battle, when the AI will always choose to attack instead of move forward: for example, if his army of hydras is advancing on my elves and I need some more shooting time, I can always send a single sprite to the back and watch the AI move back and attack the sprite because it's closer than the elves.
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Wub
Wub


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted August 28, 2002 05:02 PM
Edited By: Wub on 28 Aug 2002

The supreme stupidness of the AI: how the AI thinks.

I am being challenged by a human opponent for a 1 on 1. Knowing my superb tactical skills, I eagerly accept of course. But during day 1 already, I faced a difficult dilemma: a few squares in front of my only starting town, I see a sword of the gods, unguarded. Should I take it? It does cost movement to do so... hmmm... No, I think I can better go running back and forth for a while.

On day 2 I was again confronted with the same dilemma. So I decide to compromise: I did take the sword of the gods but on the other hand I decided not to equip it. Having solved that dilemma, I decided to run back and forth a little more.

On day 3, I encountered a big, mean stack of peasants. Needless to say that I had to retreat to my town immediately instead of exploring in another direction. Having arrived there, I started pondering how to defeat the big bullies. I could build a level 2 dwelling to reinforce my army, or a level 2 mage guild. Hmmm...I don't have any magic skills....but on the other hand a mage guild is very cheap. And ballistas are horrible shooters anyway. Besides, I can really use the faster spell point regeneration for my tactics hero. And did I mention that mage guilds are cheap?

On day 4, I started running back and forth again and stumbled upon a pack of cyclopes. Of course I retreated to my town immediately to build an abbey, but I was glad that at least I didn't encounter a pack of ogre magi. I always prefer ogre magi over cyclopes. I spent the rest of the day praying in the abbey, hoping that it would help me beating the peasants.

On day 5, my human enemy suddenly approached, having elves in his army!!! He must have cheated in order to obtain those high level shooters. I remained cool however and then a brilliant thought occurred. I could restrain him from gaining experience! Next thing I did was attacking the cyclopes. What a smart move of mine!

On day 6, I was offended by the mapmaker since an event gave me 30 pikemen. I felt like my tactical cunning was underestimated. Of course I let those pikemen stay in my fort to defend against that cruel enemy hero with his elves.

On day 7, My fort was being attacked. During the battle, I rushed towards the elves with my pikemen. But then the hero summoned a few sprites and deployed them behind me. Of course, I ran all the way back to kill the sprites. Hah, I really undermined the backbone of his army by doing that! But then, the elves kept shooting at me and I lost a pikeman. Obviously, my 29 pikemen were no match for those 5 elves in the open field, so I decided to remain behind the walls of my fort. Of course, when my enemy's hero casted poison, I kept standing bravely behind the walls, even though I had only 5 pikemen left after a round of 60. By then I started wondering whether charging the enemy wasn't a good idea after all. Unfortunately, he had summoned a GREAT deal of sprites by that time and the last remnants of my kingdom were killed.

Thus, I lost the battle, but it certainly was a close game and I am confident that I will be victorious next time.    



This pretty much summarizes all difficulties with the AI mentioned in this thread. Even when version 1.3 is installed.
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