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| Thread: Very, very long post about an impossible dream |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · «PREV |
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dragonsister
Hero of Order
MapHaven administrator
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posted September 24, 2002 07:45 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
One of the mistakes in H2 was five slots but six units in towns. So you could never use all creatures within a single army.
Yes, that was annoying. In addition, HOMM2 was highly oriented to the "develop a super-hero and give it almost all your forces" tactic, and you were forced to leave one of your troop types at home. At least, in the Knight town the choice was always clear...
You reckon?
Others don't. Other people regard the decision as an enjoyable extra element of strategy. Oh, look, I'm going up against dragons soon. Better send a secondary hero to bring up the dwarves and golems, and we'll swap out those fragile shooters for the time being. Can we spare a slot or two for single phoenixes to get the dragons to sucker-punch one another?
HOMM2 had its faults - not least the predictable and exploitable combat AI - but I don't see 'insufficient army slots' as being among them.
DragonSister
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MapHaven
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DonGio
Promising
Famous Hero
of Clear Water Mountain Clan
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posted September 24, 2002 09:34 AM |
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Nice thread, Sikmar.
What I would like to see:
Units without the levels. Sure, some are better than others, but it's kind of silly ranking them into levels, making sure that a level 3 unit can never take out a level 5 unit in single combat.
Units have different strenghts and weaknesses, and the trick would be to learn how to take advantage of the strenghts while protecting the weaknesses. For example, pikemen defending against mounted forces should have a high defence bonus, and if fighting in forests, elves should be very hard to see and hit. Not very original examples, but I trust you get the drift.
This way, you would add to that troop consideration DragonSister mentioned regarding "lack of slots", because maybe ranged units would be useless against stone golems, so you'd prefer to take the dendroids instead.
And Sikmar: I really think Titans need to be better than genies. But that's just a personal opinion 
Dream well
DonGio
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There are 10 types of people: Those who read binary, and those who don't.
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted September 24, 2002 12:18 PM |
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Edited By: Djive on 24 Sep 2002
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Quote:
Others don't. Other people regard the decision as an enjoyable extra element of strategy. Oh, look, I'm going up against dragons soon. Better send a secondary hero to bring up the dwarves and golems, and we'll swap out those fragile shooters for the time being. Can we spare a slot or two for single phoenixes to get the dragons to sucker-punch one another?
HOMM2 had its faults - not least the predictable and exploitable combat AI - but I don't see 'insufficient army slots' as being among them.
DragonSister
Usually, though the only consequence of not having enough army slots is that you have to move TWO armies around on the adventure map instead of ONE.
If you had placed one of them in the town garrison and the rest on the adventure map then you can be sure that the dragons will be placed as far away from your towns as possible. So when you finally meet the dragons you have a major logistics problem.
Also notice that what I primarily wanted was more slots for the town garrison (and not necessarily more slots for the moving armies.)
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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sikmar
Promising
Known Hero
The Moonchild
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posted September 25, 2002 10:29 AM |
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Quote:
And Sikmar: I really think Titans need to be better than genies. But that's just a personal opinion
ĦOh, don't worry, I agree with you! I like titans as much as black dragons (although most of people are fans of only ONE of these creatures since the unfinished HOMM2 debate that tried to state which of them was better...) and I can't imagine a tower-wizard town without them commanding the army.
I only put them in the ninth level cos, as I described, 10th level creatures would be rarely available (only in your capitol city fully constructed and owned during an entire month) and I liked Titans as the USUAL top-creature of a tower army. I put genies on top cos they (HOMM2 model) were mysterious and impreesive enough to fit the place, but there would probably be a better top-level.
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This is my truth. Tell me yours
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sikmar
Promising
Known Hero
The Moonchild
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posted September 25, 2002 10:51 AM |
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Quote:
You reckon?
Others don't. Other people regard the decision as an enjoyable extra element of strategy. Oh, look, I'm going up against dragons soon. Better send a secondary hero to bring up the dwarves and golems, and we'll swap out those fragile shooters for the time being. Can we spare a slot or two for single phoenixes to get the dragons to sucker-punch one another?
I see your point, Rachel: the need to choose between different creatures and change your line-up to better fit a particular battle is one of the strategic goals of the HOMM saga, and it always be. In HOMM3 is very useful to employ a secondary hero to follow the Diplomacy expert and provide him with the appropiate army while he recruits wandering armies.
I only feel somewhat constrained having to choose 5 from over 40 creatures in HOMM2. HOMM3, although having 7 stacks, kept this constrain alive cos many times you were forced to carry upgraded and unupgraded creatures.
In my ideal game I would have at least 10 stacks (a good round number appropiate to make very discussed creature selections), but the number of overall creatures would be 90 (9 towns x 10 creatures and no neutrals). Anyway, you would probably leave some of them to make room to 1-3 heroes. I would normally take 8 creatures, a magic hero and a might hero.
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This is my truth. Tell me yours
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted October 06, 2002 07:07 PM |
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Applied a few more bonuses to this thread...
Thunderknight and Lich King both has made good posts and both of them had a bonus due.
I re-read Lich King's roster. It borrowed from my old idea about grail creatures a bit and introduced some new creature ideas.
The Ice Demon was a bit misplaced among all the undead. Would have been better to add another creature in it's stead and place the demon among the other demons. otherwise good work.
An idea that struck me.... Perhaps the grail creature could be a high level Hero with tailored skills? If you got a level 50 hero with say 3-4 skill groups maxed out (one being combat), then that would be a very potent force. Perhaps you could also have the option of giving this Hero some of your good artifacts to make the Hero very powerful.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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Lich_King
Honorable
Supreme Hero
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posted October 07, 2002 12:50 PM |
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Quote:
The Ice Demon was a bit misplaced among all the undead. Would have been better to add another creature in it's stead and place the demon among the other demons. otherwise good work.
Thanks, I have re-thought where can I put that Ice demon (Me-thinks it could be neutral creature (Order aligment)).So I have created another "tough" unit... (changes in bold)
Necropolis (Death)
01.- Skeleton (h4): Melee, undead, skeletal
02.- Zombie (h4): Melee, undead, toughnest, plague (on one unit)
03.- Wraith (h3): Melee, undead, flyer, regeneration, mana drain
04.- Ghost (h4): Melee, undead, flyer, insubstantial, aging
05.- Mummy (h4): Melee, undead, curse
06.- Skeleton lord (new): Melee, undead, Re-animating (simillar to rebirth, exept all Skeleton lords revives...)
07.- Vampire (h4): Melee, undead, flyer, life dain, no retelation
08.- Power lich (h3): Ranged, undead, are attack, exept non-death creatures, spellcaster (Mass Curse, Lightning, Fire Bolt, Animate Dead, Unholy Song)
09.- Dark champion (h4): Melee, undead, jousting, regeneration, terror
10.- Bone Dragon (h4): Melee, undead, flyer, skeletal, fear
11.- Grim reaper (new): Ranged, undead, insubstantial, spellcaster (Hand of Death, Mass Cancelation), expert Necromancy ((5 % from every Grim reaper) enemys after combat will be raised as ghosts).
Quote:
An idea that struck me.... Perhaps the grail creature could be a high level Hero with tailored skills? If you got a level 50 hero with say 3-4 skill groups maxed out (one being combat), then that would be a very potent force. Perhaps you could also have the option of giving this Hero some of your good artifacts to make the Hero very powerful.
No. I don't think so... But I think those grail creature could be recruited once a month and have artifacts slots (like heroes). What do you think ?
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted October 07, 2002 01:09 PM |
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Quote:
No. I don't think so... But I think those grail creature could be recruited once a month and have artifacts slots (like heroes). What do you think ?
No, I don't think so. The way I see it is that the grail gives you the one unique creature. Unique creatures doesn't grow with time, they are unique after all. So you only get one, and if you ever lose the creature during the game then it should be so-long grail creature.
The good thing with this is that if your opponent takes the town then they won't benefit from the grail creature (they will have to kill it!), which makes sense since only the one who uncovered the grail should benefit.
I don't think you should pay for the guardian. It comes with the grail and you shouldn't be allowed to move this creature out from the town. The creature belongs to the grail and the grail building and not to the player.
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Lich_King
Honorable
Supreme Hero
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posted October 07, 2002 01:31 PM |
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So you need an extra slot in your town garison, and this "grail creatures" movement on adventure map should be 0 ? But I think it's bad idea that guardian should be hero.
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted October 07, 2002 01:48 PM |
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Quote:
So you need an extra slot in your town garison, and this "grail creatures" movement on adventure map should be 0 ? But I think it's bad idea that guardian should be hero.
You may need an extra slot, but the interface could be done in other ways also. You could get a popup when you click on the grail-building.
And perhaps a visual indication similar to the one for the governer that a grail creature is present in the town.
If they make special advanced hero classes which are a lot harder to attain and a lot fewer, then having these hard-to-get classes as grail creatures could be a good idea at least for some of the creatures.
The difference between Hero and creatures are already small, so I don't see making the unique creature a hero as a big deal.
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Lich_King
Honorable
Supreme Hero
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posted October 22, 2002 11:19 PM |
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OK. That, what I want to see in hmm !
I.Towns / Aligments
1.Haven (Life)
2.Academy (Order)
3.Necropolis (Death)
4.Inferno (Infernal)
5.Asylum (Chaos)
6.Rampart (Nature)
7.Stronghold (Might)
8.Preserve (Might)
9.Forge (Might)
10.Conflux (Elemental)
II.New town FORGE (Might)
1
01.- Red Dwarf (new): Melee, magic resistance, mining (+ 1ore/wood every 50 units)
02.- Droid (new): Melee, mechanical, first strike
03.- Pyromancer (new): Ranged, area attack, fire damage
04.- Mechanical flyer (new): Melee, mechanical, flying, strike and return
05.- Cannon (new): Ranged, mechanical, shoots twice
06.- Droid destroyer (new): Melee, mechanical, mechnical slayer
07.- Cyborg (new): Melee, cyborgic, unlimited retalations
08.- Diamond Golem (new): Melee, mechanical, magic resistance 95 %, magic mirror
09.- Amphibia (new): Melee, mechanical, no terrain penalty, sea bonus
10.- Sentinel (new): Melee, mechanical, draw towards, obsticle flyer
11.- Master Mold (new): Melee, mechanical, ranged, sentinel factory, unlimited shots.
Draw towards - Similar to ranged attack, but it doesn't do any damage. The unit afected by the draw towards will be pull towards the sentinal. Draw towards will work only in line of sight and in no obsticle area. If tardeted to arrow tower it will push down unit from arrow tower.
Sentinel factory - makes one sentinel in the begining of each round. Total 20 sentinals, Master mold is imobilize and have speed/movement : 0
Cyborg - This unit is nor mechanical, nor live It's not afected by "Rust", "Poison", "Plague", "Repair", "Heal", "Animate dead", "Death call" and "Resurection"
2
There are only one hero class - Technician (this is might hero, which starts with basic Technocratism and basic Repair)
The folowing skills to the Technitian are (They can only be gained to Forge heroes and Academy heroes)
1.Technocratism - Adds attack, defence and speed to all mechanical units
2.Repair - Basic-Master:"Heals" mechanical units, Master-GM: Can resurrect mechanicals.
3.Cybernetics - hero gains magic resistance, frist strike, defence, attack, mechanical properties.
4.Recycling - Can recreat a number mechanicals from defeated mechanicals.
III. The Aligment star
Each aligment has neighbours and enemys, but I think each aligment could have archenemys !
When fighting the archenemy units do more damage in melee, ranged, has more defence and so on and so on...
List of enemys and archenemys:
1.Life- allies: Order,Nature,Forge
enemys: Death,Stronghold,Preserve,
Chaos
archenemy:Inferno
2.Order- A(llies): Death,Life,Forge
E(nemys):Nature,Preserve,
Stronghold,Inferno
A(rh)E(nemy):Chaos
3.Death- A: Order,Inferno,Stronghold
E:Chaos,Life,Preserve,Forge
AE:Nature
4.Inferno- A: Death,Chaos,Stronghold
E:Nature,Order,Preserve,Forge
AE:Life
5.Chaos- A:Inferno,Nature,Preserve
E: Death,Life,Stronghold,Forge
AE: Order
6.Nature- A:Chaos,Life,Preserve
E:Inferno,Stronghold,Order,Forge
AE: Death
7.Stronghold- A: Death,Inferno,Forge,Preserve
E:Life,Order,Nature,Chaos
AE:Conflux
8.Preserve- A:Chaos,Nature,Forge,Stronghold
E:Life,Order,Death,Inferno
AE:Conflux
9.Forge- A:Life,Order,Stronghold,Preserve
E: Death,Inferno,Chaos,Nature
AE:Conflux
10.Conflux- A:none
E:none
Neutral:Life,Order,Death,Inferno,
Chaos,Nature
AE: Preserve,Stronghold,Forge
[Aligment star image. Coming soon...]
IV. Heroes
The heroes must have their own races and specialitys.
1.Life - Humans, Angels.
2.Order - Genies, Dwarves, Halflings, Humans, Titans.
3.Death - Humans, Liches, Zombies, Vampires.
4.Inferno - Demons, Humans, Efreeti, Devils.
5.Chaos - Troglodytes, Humans, Minotaurs, Medusas, Black Dragons.
6.Nature - Elves, Dragons (fairy and gold), Humans.
7.Stronghold - Humans, Orcs, Ogres, Cyclopes, Goblins.
8.Fortress - Humans, Gnolls, Lizards.
9.Forge - Humans, Cyborgs, Red Dwarves.
10.Conflux - Humans, Liches, Genies, Elves, Demons, Minotaurs.
Race Specials:
Human - Gains +15 % more experience, starts with an artifact.
Angel - Flies, casts Ressurection.
Dwarf - Magic resistance, Mining.
Genie - Flies, casts Genie spells.
Halfling - Ranged, Slayer.
Lich - Undead, Skeletal, +20 % to Death magic effects.
Zombie - Undead, Toughness.
Vampire - Undead, Vampiric touch, Flies.
Demon - Mana Drain, First strike.
Efreet - Flies, Fire shield, immune to fire.
Devil - Teleportation, melee and ranged cause -10 Luck.
Troglodyte - Eye spell immunity, +10 % to Chaos magic.
Minotaur - Blocking.
Medusa - Stone gaze.
Black Dragon - Flies, Magic immunity.
Elf - Two ranged attacks, +10 Luck
Fairie Dragon - Magic mirror, Casts spells like fairie dragon, Flies.
Gold Dragon - Immune to Death and Order spells, flies.
Orc - Ranged, No melee penalty.
Ogre - Casts bloodfrenzy.
Cyclope - Area attack.
Goblin - High speed, stone skin.
Gnoll - High Defence.
Lizardman - Ranged, Poisoous attack.
Cyborg - begin with exp. Cyborgetics
Red Dwarf - Magic resistance, Estates.
Conflux heroes: Gain Elemental properties.
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted November 20, 2002 11:50 PM |
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Hmm... I believe you should be using mainly the lower level creatures for Heroes. Level 4s should not be Heroes.
Then try to limit to two creatures per alignment.
Something like:
Life: Humans, Halflings
Order: Dwarves, Genies
Death: Liches, Vampires
Chaos: Minotaurs, Medusae
Nature: Elves, Satyrs
Stronghold: Orcs, Goblins
Fortress: Gnolls, Lizards
Race Specials could be a good idea, but then again perhaps it's better to have each Race having their own dedicated starting Class, and then develope abilities as you gain levels, Svetac proposed in one of his topics.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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Dingo
Responsible
Legendary Hero
God of Dark SPAM
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posted October 13, 2003 05:21 AM |
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I like the Grim Reaper Idea.
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The Above Post/Thread/Idea Is CopyRighted by, The Dingo Corp.
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B0rsuk
Promising
Famous Hero
DooM prophet
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posted October 13, 2003 12:49 PM |
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http://www.attal-thegame.org/
Attal: Lords of Doom is free (GPL) Heroes clone. It is in very early development, but new versions are coming. Latest news are from 2003-10-04, and next version is planned before the end of year.
One of game's features is (going to be) ability to easily change game rules.
You have an oportunity to make your dream true, Sikmar. But I warn you: the game is hardly playable at all... at the moment, and is developed by unpayed coders.
Shiny, great graphics and sounds is what you're not going to find in this project for LONG time, or simply never. But if you are interested in gameplay, rules, story and such - you may want to check.
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B0rsuk
Promising
Famous Hero
DooM prophet
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posted October 13, 2003 01:17 PM |
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What would I do...
I would make it so you have total 8(12+) creatures per town. I hate idea of having 10 or so creatures AT A TIME. It causes confusion, and not really makes it more strategic.
In my system, there would be 4 levels of creatures(!). You could have 2 (TWO) creatures per each level. Additionally there would be 3 (or more?) creatures to choose per level ! (there would be less difference in power between levels, more like Heroes3 not Heroes4)
As a consequence, you could have Elves and Dwarves on same level, and NO HARM DONE !
Example: Barbarian town, you can build dwellings for following (level1) creatures: goblins, berserkers, centaurs. Goblins would be cheap and numerous to compensate...but you could take only two of them, so either g&b, b&c, or g&c)
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