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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: I'm not a genie, so teach me how to fight one...
Thread: I'm not a genie, so teach me how to fight one... This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
_Moose_
_Moose_

Tavern Dweller
posted September 16, 2002 09:41 PM

I'm not a genie, so teach me how to fight one...

If this topic already exist i'm sorry, but I couldn't find anything going through the first ten pages...

This place could really use a search thingy...

My problem is h4 genies. I just can't find a good way to fight them. I like might...(maybe that is my problem ))

It seems the more powerful creatures I bring into combat, the more powerful illusions my opponent can create...

I don't like Order much myself, but I don't mind my opponent playing them in multi. Seems though like alot of peeps out there like em...

So please give me some strategy tips when facing genies. Preferably for Might, but tips on how to beat genies with other alignments are also welcome...

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Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted September 17, 2002 09:03 AM

beef up your hero & spells & any attacks can beat them
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dushan
dushan


Hired Hero
posted September 17, 2002 09:26 AM

  I agree genies are trouble because of their illusions, but they die very quickly in the close combat (life 60, bad close combat), so the trick is to get to them as quickly as you can. I admit it is easier if you have powerful spell hero where you can either cancel their illusions or cast flight, speed etc., on your unit which will get to genies fastly.
  I like Might as well, also had trouble fighting the Order, but try to get to them as quickly as you can (speed potions perhaps). (Heroes of MIGHT and magic)


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tuapui
tuapui


Famous Hero
Poetic Psycho Baby BlackDragon
posted September 17, 2002 09:57 AM

If you didnt like might so much you could always do with spellcasters since illusions cant cast spells....
for example you can use water elementals or something like that...

or just pummel it with ranged units anyhow...stock up on centaurs and whack em...

the best method is to use black dragons...failsafe technique..unless of course the ring of greater negation is in play...

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Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted September 18, 2002 09:25 AM

Well Genies are not the most fastest in this game so you should take good advantage of wearing them down to decrease thier spell affects tremendously.
Hand to Hand can hurt since thier offense is not that bad but ranged & spells can do the trick.
There are alot of spells from dif class that can skip a turn for a Genie to get better shots at them.

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Karla
Karla

Disgraceful

posted September 18, 2002 09:26 AM

oh...
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Nidhgrin
Nidhgrin


Honorable
Famous Hero
baking cookies from stardust
posted September 18, 2002 10:37 AM


Playing barb against order often is painful because of genies.  Lots of TBirds or Behemoths is certainly not the way to get rid of them.  In two turns your opponents can have an equal or greater amount of TBirds.

I find Cyclopes particularily good against genies, since our blue friends have a low health and a mediocre defense.  Even better are two or more high level barbarian heroes, perhaps with a chaos spellcasting companion.  By the time opponents have dangerously large stacks of genies, you should at least have two high level barbs.  Their magic immunity and devastating ranged attack are very effective against genies.

So fight them with heroes, perhaps a stack of cyclopes, but leave your TBirds out of the battle.

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_Moose_
_Moose_

Tavern Dweller
posted September 18, 2002 11:15 PM

Thanks for all your tips

Quote:

So fight them with heroes, perhaps a stack of cyclopes, but leave your TBirds out of the battle.



Most maps I played I havn't even been able to buil L4 before game was over . When i bring cyclopes my opponent usually splits the genie stack and use a single genie to peace the cyclopes and then he goes at it with the illusions on my cyclopes. This leaves me with a crippled army and my opponent gets a big advantage.

Quote:

By the time opponents have dangerously large stacks of genies, you should at least have two high level barbs. Their magic immunity and devastating ranged attack are very effective against genies.



Of course you are right, but... Also I feel I need to develop my main barb focusing on Combat/Melee because playing might you have to protect one of your armys biggest assets (IMHO), the Berserkers. These guys are great but they are easy to waste if you let them run of all by their lonesome.

Also I wish 3DO would make breeding pens a little less expensive (say 10K or maybe even less).

...or they could just remove genies from the game maybe then i could win...

Later...

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Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted September 18, 2002 11:26 PM

But what if you dont have a Stronghold ?
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tuapui
tuapui


Famous Hero
Poetic Psycho Baby BlackDragon
posted September 19, 2002 01:37 PM

So you like stronghold? If you love stronghold and you totally hate genies heres one nice thing about creatures in might that can take out genies is magic resistance. Okay now that you have this genies can only cast illusion right? yea sure you all know that ...damn. So what happens if they cast illusion? Lets talk about illusion. They can only cast illusion of a number of hit points per genie, each genie able to summon 18 hit points of illusion. now that you know that, you will need to use things with high hit points correct? Early in the game your best bet is TB asap. They are cheap and usually outnumber the amount the enemy can summon. If thuderbirds are unavailable use the force! Nomads are genie killers. They are fast effiecient and they deal one heck of alot of melee damage. They can reach the genies in 2 moves. AND further more as nomads are level 2 creatures you can get a whole lot more of them than you can get genies. So you would outnumber their summonings. Ah...but late in the game if they have at least 50 genies in one stack you have to wish they go away. Heavy casualties is confirmed. Try to use your heroes to your advantage.
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<<<Hy
peractive Do not touch.
Highly Psychotically Poetic.

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Thunder
Thunder


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted September 19, 2002 03:19 PM
Edited By: Thunder on 19 Sep 2002

Fighting genies.....

Use close formation and Genies can't cast Song of Peace. Wait with all of your creatures except maybe with Thunderbirds and Cyclops (and possibly Barbarians. This way Cyclops can't be "Peaced". Preferably, if you have close to ten or more Cyclops divide them into two stacks. Tactics hero helps a lot. Kill the small Genie stacks along with the hero, if hero can't be shot or there aren't high level heroes, shoot the biggest genie stack hitting other stacks as much as possible. If Thunderbirds can reach the biggest stack of Genies in the first round, do so. You may lose the Thunderbirds but at least your opponent will likely lose most of his or her Genies. If they can't reach Genies, wait, there will be a next round.

It is very likely that the opponent uses Genies to Clone Cyclops so don't sit idle but go for the opponent immediately after waiting with your creatures. Kill heroes and Genies as fast as possible, if there are Mages (creatures) they wont last long. Fortunately, your first two shots with Cyclops should have killed most of the smaller Genie stacks (if there were any), so it isn't very likely that (both stacks of) Cyclops got "Peaced". Show 'em Genies who is the boss.
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tuapui
tuapui


Famous Hero
Poetic Psycho Baby BlackDragon
posted September 19, 2002 05:10 PM

close formation? ARE YOU NUTZ??? as you said the genies will probrably clone the cyclops! CYCLOPS DO SPLASH DAMAGE!!! oh the death and carnage.....

...hey i like that.
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<<<Hy
peractive Do not touch.
Highly Psychotically Poetic.

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bobntamr1
bobntamr1


Known Hero
non dictionary ownen hero
posted September 22, 2002 12:51 AM

here's a few things that will help:

anti-magic,speed, pathfinding, mass order ward (not sure of), song of peace, unholy song (so you can use ranged attacks better), cloud of confusion, spell shackle, haste.

i have found genies to be overly tough myself, maybe even to the point of unbalencing. The key is to know what you have, and how to use it well. Now I can't say that I always know what I am doing, half the time I end up losing my hero to some wandering monster or think I am tougher than I am.If your opponant has genies it is more imparitive to get rid of them than ANY other creature, so I have found or you lose

I don't know just putting my two cents in that isnt quite worth a dime
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god please spare me from my contribulations

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Wub
Wub


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted September 22, 2002 01:02 AM

When genies are controlled by a human player, they sure are a pain. But if you have to fight a neutral stack of genies, you can beat them surprisingly easy. The AI just doesn't know how to use genies!

The key is to disable their most dangerous spells, which are create illusion and ice bolt. Now illusion can simply be dispelled or cancellated. And the AI won't cast Ice bolt on sacrificial stacks. So if you block the line of sight of the genies with, say, 1 halfling, they will not cast that direct damage spell. Instead, they will cast lousy spell such as mirth on them and try to cast cowardice on your hero or something. Meanwhile, your hero and a nice shooter stack (which hide behind the halfling, using tight formation) will kill off the genies.

So dealing with wandering genies isn't too much of a problem, but I agree that they are hard when a human controls them or even when the AI supports them with other units.
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Thunder
Thunder


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted September 22, 2002 07:05 PM
Edited By: Thunder on 22 Sep 2002

Yes, they clone the Cyclops, too bad that those cloned Cyclops might get to be in the middle of your forces. Splash damage works in both ways. Cloning Cyclops might not be so great idea after all. I would definitely go for Thunderbirds if there were them in the battlefield. And be vary of the Tactics skill. If (due to tactics skills) your Genies speed is greater than enemy Cyclop's but your Tactician's (Knight, Death Knight) Tactic skill isn't as great as opponents it may happen, that you clone the Cyclops just to have more creatures taking the shot from the enemy's Cyclops.

But I tried the tactic I mentioned without heroes and with and without Breeding Pen bonuses. With Breeding Pen bonuses it was a massacre, Genies were all dead by the beginning of the third or fourth round and the battle didn't last long after that. It was a clear victory for Stronghold with minimal losses.

Without Breeding bonuses, however, it was a tougher battle and Academy won. Still, Academy lost most of its forces and all Genies (27) were dead.

Note that the first battle was not fair for Academy by any means as there was no magic (no heroes) included. But the second battle was unfair for Stronghold as Stronghold creatures are cheaper than creatures of Academy.

I don't remember the exact numbers but this was the deployement order from left to right (Stronghold was attacker):

Stronghold (Tight Formation): Thunderbirds, Cyclops, Nomads, Berserkers, Centaurs, Cyclops, Thunderbirds.

Academy (Loose Formation): 1 Genie, Halflings, Dragon Golems, Genies, Dwarwes, Magi, 1 Genie.

One might wonder why I choose to have Magi instead of Gold Golems, but simple fact is that Magi's poison is really effective when cast on Cyclops and thus their damage potential is awesome. Furthermore, growth of the Magi is quite good also (for second level creature).

Battle setup was by no means realistic but it at least pointed out that the tactic I described above isn't that ineffective. With different tactics (and setups) the result may vary but most of the time there are counter tactics for them. I don't want to include all 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000+ different scenarios into my analysis.
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Klauts
Klauts


Famous Hero
lost in a mourning hall!
posted September 22, 2002 07:25 PM

If your problem isn't the icebolt  the simple spels of cancelation or dispel can destroy all sumonings.
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Dingo
Dingo


Responsible
Legendary Hero
God of Dark SPAM
posted September 01, 2003 05:52 AM

I personally think the genies are way to powerful.
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The Above Post/Thread/Idea Is CopyRighted by, The Dingo Corp.

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Arangar
Arangar


Famous Hero
Weak ranger - lost viking
posted September 01, 2003 03:12 PM

Order needs all the help it can get

Arangar
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Arangar
Norwegian viking
ranger of the north

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streetspirit
streetspirit

Tavern Dweller
posted September 12, 2003 10:08 AM

Quote:
I personally think the genies are way to powerful.

Genie's are really powerful creatures... remember Solmyr is a genie!
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EmperorSly
EmperorSly


Known Hero
Destroyer of Liver
posted September 15, 2003 05:56 PM

more ways to disorder the battlefield

with might only -- i wouldn try. except maybe going with GM resistant well-fighting barbarian alone (or with more of those if you have, though you probably wont). such barb would be resistant to all the genie nastyness, and if the enemy army is composed of genies and heroes only (often happens so) there is really no-one for them to clone or bolt.

with death -- theres one L3 unit even better than genie: a vampire. use them. cover them with ghosts initially so that they wont get hit in turn 1. in turn 2 they'll be there, feasting on the genies. can't be peaced as well. and cannot be hypnotized or berserked by the boss of the genies likely to be present too. and theres hero with cancellation of fake vampires and sorrow to make sure vamps move before genies on turn 2

nature -- use fairy dragons. a single FD can effectively confuse genies, cannot be destroyed by single genie icebolt, and the bolt from the big stack reflects from the magic mirror and feels no good for genies. no point in cloning FDs either -- whats the use of a non-spellcasting fairy?


but anyway, since the genies are normally accompanied by a good order mage, possibly with mass slow or berserk, enemies shouldnt really have a chance.
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