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| Thread: Of Towns, Creature Dwelling building, Upgrades and stuff - Idea (essay) |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · «PREV |
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted November 25, 2002 06:25 PM |
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Edited By: Djive on 25 Nov 2002
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It depends on your perspective. If you see the "upgrade" as a technology available to the player, then this way of doing it makes sense.
There are other things which are global and which are accepted as global. A few examples:
- The Magic dampener effect.
- Most of the effects for the Grail buildings.
- Necromancy amplifier effect.
Our view on the micromangement is different but if you have upgrades I don't see the need to introduce a major logisitics problem with the upgrade.
I don't mind visiting towns to make visit to built town specific buildings (battle academy, wrestling pit and so on) and new spells in a mage guild. Or even to appoint the hero to governer or replensih spell points.
However, if you want to also include it for the task of upgrading creatures then my feeling is that you unnecessarily prolong the game.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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hobgoblin
Known Hero
captain hobgoblin
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posted November 26, 2002 05:52 PM |
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Hmm yes I see. The point is that I don't so often think of new features in the way of technologic advance for the players.
It's a poin of view, personnaly I'm not really convinced, I don't really like the unrealist side, or maybe it's just a question of habit. And when in H4 they suppressed the need to go every week to the windmill or to the mystical garden, I found it was enough. Anyway, we just have a different view of the game.
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Take me down to a pardise city where the girls are green and the grass is pretty
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted November 26, 2002 08:21 PM |
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Perhaps a compromise is the best here.
A possibility would be that the Hero learns the technology to upgrade when the Hero visits the town with the upgraded dwelling.
This would require the hero to visit the town at least once.
A bit stricter would be to require that the hero is of the same alignement as the town to learn the upgrade technology.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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Svetac
Promising
Known Hero
Saintified Paladin
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posted November 26, 2002 08:33 PM |
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Hmmm, I don't know. I imagine that when you need to upgrade your troops, than you must provide them with new armour, weapons and stuff. And that's something that is kept in the towns armouries.
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--- Paladin of the Macedon ---
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted November 30, 2002 11:31 AM |
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Then on the other hand, you never have to pay the wages for your troops or for repairs of their equipment.
Upgrades, wages and maintenance are things that has never been all that realisitic in heroes and I believe this is a good idea.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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hobgoblin
Known Hero
captain hobgoblin
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posted December 03, 2002 05:22 PM |
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Quote:
Perhaps a compromise is the best here.
A possibility would be that the Hero learns the technology to upgrade when the Hero visits the town with the upgraded dwelling.
This would require the hero to visit the town at least once.
A bit stricter would be to require that the hero is of the same alignement as the town to learn the upgrade technology.
And then you could bring back your creatures to your town and upgrade them here if you have no hero of the good alignment.
Why not.
As for realism... generally in this type of game, the point is to find the good midle between realism and playability. Realism is not important in heroes, but maybe it's better to not forget it completely.
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Take me down to a pardise city where the girls are green and the grass is pretty
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emperorsly
Known Hero
Destroyer of Liver
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posted December 04, 2002 02:50 PM |
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the difference between upgrade and magic dampener:
magic dampener is a radio station. it sends out waves of magic supressing radiation, travelling at the speed of light across large area. you dont have to visit a TV tower to watch TV.
but upgrading your elves (giving them better bows or sth) is different. you cannot send better equipment by radio waves. you just have to go to the town and pick it up. or alternatively, think of the upgrading as a little surgery performed in a neurological clinic. like putting an implant that gives cat reflexes. naturally, everybody that wishes to get the implant has to go to clinic and let it installed.
in any case, not making upgrades available instantly adds strategic depth to the game, for you have to consider whether the creature improvement is worth the trip needed to get it.
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted December 04, 2002 11:19 PM |
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There is no description on how the magic dampener works. It would be entirely realistic to have it work in another way. For instance by requiring the Hero to visit the town to get the bonus permanently.
Your description is based on the knowledge of how in works in the game. It could be working in any number of different ways and it would still be logical.
Certain upgrades may be more convenient to say that you must buy more equipment, but this makes little sense if you are getting an upgrade whih gives an additional spell to an existing spellbook, higher speed or upgrades a dragon from say red to black. Almost every upgrade can be done without giving the creature new equipment. Only in cases where a creature gains say a ranged attack when it used to have none would warrant new items.
Heroes already work in a similar way. If they visit a Wrestling Pit they get improvements to their stats. An arena or sacred grove also give improvements in stats. In other words: the hero has been upgraded but the hero hasn't gotten any new better or equipment. This is an upgrade by received training. And the creatures can work in the same way.
Just picture that the town produces instructors which follows your armies and are ready to upgrade any creature they meet. You don't see them and they have no combat value by themselves but they can upgrade your creatures. You already have this for many other things. For instance management of resources are handled by unseen forces and transparent to the player and heroes.
If however the hero purchase a new and better artifact then you have paid for the upgrade of the hero's values. So this form also exists, although it's less common when it comes to improvements of Hero stats.
Overall, I'm reluctant on changing appearance of creatures because of upgrades. A colour-change is Ok, but if you do change the model, you will likely end up with too much work being put on the upgrade animation. Think of upgrade as training of the creatures and after completed training the creature earns the right to have a uniform of another colour, or changes colour for another reason. A creature with somewhat better stats doesn't warrant a new animation.
Different appearance is Ok if you have choices (like an Ogre Warlord and an Ogre magi), but in that case you don't necessarily have the base creature in the game at all, and the two are actually distinct creatures.
The strategic depth of an adding an upgrade is fairly small. And it has to be weighed against increased micro-management, pro-longed games time and so on and so forth. Heroes 3 had too many upgrades, too much micromanagement and so on.
Moderator's note:This topic has been closed, as it refers to an older version of the game. To discuss Heroes 3, please go to Library Of Enlightenment, to discuss Heroes 4, please go to War Room Of Axeoth, to discuss Heroes 5, go to Temple Of Ashan.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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