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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: Looking for important hidden information
Thread: Looking for important hidden information This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
splat
splat


Adventuring Hero
posted January 07, 2003 05:11 PM
Edited By: splat on 16 Jan 2003

Looking for important hidden information

I have recently found out these things (edited)
* units with low morale will do -20% less damage and move in the end of round! (read it in a post)
* An enemy creature's back doesn't hinder your shooters.
* standing on the fort/cit/castle walls gives you 25/50/100% resp. to your melee att/def.
* Moats cost you 25% from your melee att and 20% from both defense ratings.
* it means the same if artifacts affect all friendly "targets" or "creatures". I first thought that "targets" would include heroes, too.
* luck and morale artifacts affect heroes also, but att/def-ratings-artifacts affect creatures only.
* if you have many such artifacts, and you have multiple heroes in an army, you should put all artifacts of one class on one hero, because for each bonus (like %bonus to melee attack, or extra luck) the hero with the highest bonus counts, and his artifacts only.
* Having two rings of health (each +50% health to your hero) does work: you get +100% health to your hero. But having regenerating ring and armour doesn't work: you get 20+2 per lvl per turn and not 40+4 per lvl per turn.
* The expert+ archery gives you shooting over walls, but it works only on creatures 'on the walls' and creatures on the castle towers. (you normally have 50% penalty on them). I first thought it would enable you to hit the 'safe' creatures, and I considered it a bug.
* If you kill an enemy hero who has tactics skills, then the enemy creatures will lose the bonuses directly. So I suppose that killing a hero with artifacts that affect the entire army, also rids the army of those benefits.

I think such things are important to know, to play effectively. If you gave 2 rings of protection to one hero and the steadfast shield to another, and in the end you find out you lost a lot of creatures needlessly, that's a shame.

You don't find much of this in the original manual on the CD. The manual addendum you find here somewhere gives you  more, but I think there is more.

So can anyone give me more such hints? (not from manual addendum)

And these questions:
How do morale and luck work? I know morale affects initiative and damage, and luck affects damage, but how much per point?

Fly creatures are supposed to block fly creatures from flying over them, but I think I saw it happen anyway.

Can't fly over castle wall after stepping into moat? You are supposed to be able to fly over the wall, but last time it only worked after 3 turns or so. Perhaps I clicked in the wrong place?

Can I force melee attack *without moving* the creature/hero first? Important for not walking off your castle tower by accident, or speeding up the fight a bit. If it's not there, I would like to see it in a patch. It's a bit like the force-not-move with shift key in clickfest RPG games.

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pepak
pepak


Adventuring Hero
posted January 08, 2003 10:40 AM

Quote:
Fly creatures are supposed to block fly creatures from flying over them, but I think I saw it happen anyway.


The "blocking" term is rather confusing. In fact, a flying defender hhas a zone-of-control that spans other flying creatures, and that means he SLOWs them DOWN, but not BLOCKs completely. Basically I have found the flyers impossible to block effectively, they are usually too fast for that ZOC to mean anything.

Quote:
Can't fly over castle wall after stepping into moat? You are supposed to be able to fly over the wall, but last time it only worked after 3 turns or so. Perhaps I clicked in the wrong place?


You can fly over the wall, but you must stand right next to it, not in the moat (that's too far away).

Quote:
Can I force melee attack *without moving* the creature/hero first? Important for not walking off your castle tower by accident, or speeding up the fight a bit. If it's not there, I would like to see it in a patch. It's a bit like the force-not-move with shift key in clickfest RPG games.


You can't force "no move", AFAIK, but with careful positioning of the cursor you can attack without leaving the tower.

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splat
splat


Adventuring Hero
posted January 08, 2003 03:23 PM

and if they are going to make that "force-no-move" key for melee units, it should also work for ranged units. It has happened a few times now that I clicked one millimeter next to my target and my ranged unit started walking to the other side of the battlefield instead of shooting. Good for a surrender-and-reload-saved-game.

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CzlowiekWiadro
CzlowiekWiadro


Hired Hero
Windowlicker
posted January 08, 2003 04:46 PM

Save/Load


You don't need to surrender to save or load game.

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Vince
Vince


Hired Hero
posted January 09, 2003 11:06 PM

Quote:
How do morale and luck work?


I got this info from this board.

Morale

Units that receive a moral bonus in the beginning of a turn, may move before units that don't receive one. If two units receive a moral bonus, the one with the higher speed goes first.  Also, a moral bonus increases the damage that the unit does by 25%.

Bad moral can cause a moral penalty in the beginning of a turn. In that case, the unit will move after units that didn't get a moral penalty and the damage it does is decreased by 20%.

Luck

When you have positive luck, there is a chance that your enemy does 1/3 less damage against you (which allows you to take 50% more hits).  Negative luck gives your opponent a chance to do 50% extra damage against you.

For both luck and moral, the following is true (according to various guides):

+1 luck/moral gives a 10% chance that the effect is applied.
+2 luck/moral gives a 20% chance.
+5 luck/moral gives a 50% chance.
-8 luck/moral gives a 80% chance.

And so on.

Hope that helps you.
____________

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splat
splat


Adventuring Hero
posted January 12, 2003 11:21 PM
Edited By: splat on 15 Jan 2003

magic resistance, terrain

Hi, I have another question. How do the magic resistance skill and the magic resistance cloaks/capes work together? I first thought, expert resistance + cloak of warding = 100% protected. I guess that would be too easy? I think I have seen one of my heroes with such combination get hit by a spell. Is it then, the highest one counts (so cloak of warding is wasted if you have any mr skill) or is it, they work one by one like magic dampeners, and if that is so, how much % damage do direct damage spells? And in that last case, if you have some magic dampeners also?

And about native terrain: creatures that fight on their native terrain, do they have attack and defense bonuses like in HOMM3? I already know they have movement bonus, both on adventure map and in battle (right?)

And, the libraries don't always work. Although my hero hasn't been there yet, no upgrade is offered, and he has some incomplete magic skill. Is it required that you do a level-up investment in the skill before you may use a library again or something?

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Thunder
Thunder


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted January 15, 2003 09:40 PM

Libraries will upgrade your magic skill only if the all requirements for the skill already exist. Thus, if you have Advanced Life Magic and Advanced Healing, you won't get a skill there before you learn Spiritualism.

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splat
splat


Adventuring Hero
posted January 15, 2003 11:34 PM

Can the library not give you basic spiritualism? That is a magic skill isn't it.

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Chris_Schack
Chris_Schack

Tavern Dweller
posted January 16, 2003 05:40 AM

Libraries don't give you basic anything.  You won't get anything if you have only basic in the primary skill, or advanced in the primary and the magic-point-giving skills, and if your optional (resurrection, charm, necromancy, sorcery, summoning) is either none or already as high as it can go.

Universities, seminaries, and ... magic universities, I think? ... anyway, the ones that give specific skills CAN give you basic in a prerequisite skill.  That, or you can level up and hope for the best...
____________

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Wub
Wub


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted January 16, 2003 05:12 PM
Edited By: Wub on 16 Jan 2003

How resistance works

Nice thread ! I hope I can add something useful.

Let's say you have a cloak that gives you 30% magic resistance and a magic dampener.

Your amount of resistance can then be understood as follows: if hundred spells are cast upon you, the cloak will resist 30. From the 70 spells that pass, the magic dampener will resist 10%. 10% of 70 is 7, so the dampener will resist an other 7 spells. So the total number of spells that are resisted is 30+7=37. In other words: you have a magic resistance of 37%. This also means that direct damage spells do 37% less damage against you (this has been changed from Heroes 3 where you could either fully resist or become fully hit by a direct damage spell).  

In other words: a 50% magic resistance arti lets 1/2 of all spells through. Expert magic resistance lets 3/10 of all spells through. Together they let 1/2 x 3/10 = 3/20 of all spells through (=15%). Therefore your magic resistance will be 85% in this case

I'll end with some more examples:  

A spell that does 100 damage is cast upon you. You have:

70% magic resistance - spell does 30 damage
2x 50% magic resistance -spell does 25 damage
1 magic dampener built- spell does 90 damage
2 magic dampeners built -spell does 81 damage
3 magic dampeners built -spell does 73 damage
4 magic dampeners built -spell does 66 damage
5 magic dampeners built -spell does 60 damage
70% magic resistance and 5 dampeners built - spell does 18 damage.

On a sidenote: you don't have to visit magic dampeners to profit from the bonus.

____________

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splat
splat


Adventuring Hero
posted January 16, 2003 07:51 PM
Edited By: splat on 16 Jan 2003

I see that if you use strength potion, your base damage numbers grow 25%. (the minimum-maximum thing)

Since the ranged attack number doesn't drop, I may conclude that, although it should only increase melee attack damage, it also increases ranged attack damage. Am I not right?

Another question. Can I check, on the adventure map, what spell effects are currently in effect on my heroes? Other than using that immortality potion and listening if I hear something.

And the stables, only the first time they show the message of increased movement. Do the stables have their effect every day, on every creature? So not like the mana vortex.




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Chris_Schack
Chris_Schack

Tavern Dweller
posted January 17, 2003 01:03 AM

I don't know of a way of checking directly for potion effects on the map, but you can't take the same spell-effect potion twice with the same hero.  For Immortality, for instance, you could try to take it, and if you already have, you won't.  Be careful about this if you want to save them for a specific hero, as if only a single hero does not have the effect, that hero is automatically selected.

As for the stables, hover the pointer over one and see if it says (no benefit).  If not, some creatures or heroes had it run out...
____________

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splat
splat


Adventuring Hero
posted January 20, 2003 01:44 PM

In my last game I built Great Library (order grail structure). The description says that all my towns with a magic institute give spells as if they were level 5 institutes, so all spells. But I checked one of my towns with just level 2 m.i., and it had just lev1 and lev2 spells. Bug?

In Heroes III, if a player had no towns left, he would be gone in about a week. Am I right that this rule is gone now? If you conquer ALL towns, then you are the winner in 3 days, but that's different.

I see the description of undead transformer says lev4 turn into ghosts instead of vampires, but I guess that has been on the fix list for long.

Last game I used vial of blinding smoke. If I'm right, you throw it on yourself, and it should cut in half or ranged damage done to you. My enemy was a cursed stack of ballistae. But I noticed no change in the damage done. Is the smoke cloud an 'obstacle', so that ballistae and some others can ignore it? Or did I use it the wrong way? Or is it a bug? Or did I not notice well?

Some fountains give your hero extra strength, he will do 20% more damage. You can then no longer use strength potion. So I guess that's the same 'spell' that is cast on your hero. But the strength potion gives 25% extra damage. So are the descriptions of the fountains wrong?

If you have GM melee, you give a first strike kick, then after retaliation a second kick. But if you have used potion of cold and the creature you kick freezes, then, SOMETIMES you give a second kick, and sometimes not. Does someone know what it depends on? It can't be 'if the kick is a freeze kick, there will be no second kick', because I have seen that happen. Does it depend on type of enemy? I saw in one fight, that I did kick faerie dragon twice, and air elementals just once, when freezing occurred.


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Koson
Koson

Tavern Dweller
posted January 20, 2003 03:27 PM

Quote:
If you have GM melee, you give a first strike kick, then after retaliation a second kick. But if you have used potion of cold and the creature you kick freezes, then, SOMETIMES you give a second kick, and sometimes not. Does someone know what it depends on? It can't be 'if the kick is a freeze kick, there will be no second kick', because I have seen that happen. Does it depend on type of enemy? I saw in one fight, that I did kick faerie dragon twice, and air elementals just once, when freezing occurred.




This has happened to me too, and there was no explanation for it. Furthermore, sometimes I got the second attack on a frozen enemy and sometimes not while fighting the same type of creatures, so it's not related to the enemy type (undead / elemental / mechanical / whatever).
Another thing: GM Melee gives you 2 attacks, but if you have a weapon / spell that gives you another extra attack, your hero still hits only twice. Any idea why?
____________
Some there be that shadows kiss / Such have but a shadow's bliss. - THE MERCHANT OF VENICE

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Wub
Wub


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted January 20, 2003 03:39 PM

Quote:
'Am I right that this rule is gone now?'

Yep, banishing rule is gone.


Skeleton transformer

Quote:
'I see the description of undead transformer says lev4 turn into ghosts instead of vampires, but I guess that has been on the fix list for long.'

Level 1 creatures transform into skeletons
Level 2 creatures transform into skeletons
Level 3 creatures transform into ghosts
Level 4 creatures transform into vampires, but:

Black dragons and faerie dragons transform into bone dragons.

The number of creatures that you end up with is determined by the following rules:

-You cannot get more creatures back than you put in
                         and
-You cannot get more experience out of the transformer than you put in. I.e. if you transform level 1 creatures that are worth 100 XP, you cannot get a number of skeletons back that exceeds that 100 XP in value.

____________

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splat
splat


Adventuring Hero
posted January 20, 2003 03:44 PM
Edited By: splat on 20 Jan 2003

grandmaster melee

I gave my super-barbarian with gm melee some 'sword of swiftness' some time ago, and indeed he gave them three kicks now! And the lev4 chaos spell 'cat reflexes' works also, he will kick three times. It is much nicer to give those cat reflexes to your cyclops stack, but they are not always there...

Maybe it is a bug, the potion of cold thing, and they should look into it? I think it is still worth it, a frozen creature will do nothing and won't retaliate for some turns, that's very good.

Another question:
there's something like "the enemy won't retaliate now if he retaliated last turn and you have good morale", I noticed. Is it exactly this way, or what?

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StormKnight
StormKnight

Tavern Dweller
posted January 21, 2003 12:26 AM

I recently learned something interesting about the Summoning skill.  I'm not 100% sure about this, but it seems to work this way.
If you have summoning, but your army is full of other creatures (say, you have a summoner in an army with 6 stacks of death troops) the summoned HP will actually just build up, and you will get the full total amount as soon as there is an empty space for it.
This works with summoning items, but if you take off the item you lose the accumulated summoning points.
____________
My famous last words in Heroes I: "I don't know what ghosts do, but I've got a few thousand goblins, I should be able to fight them!"

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Planeswalker
Planeswalker


Famous Hero
Chaotic Good
posted January 21, 2003 11:41 AM

Why do some heroes learn a spell automatically when they
learn f.ex. Basic Death magic, and some don't?
____________
Like 2D RPGs? Download Everestia! everestiagame.com

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splat
splat


Adventuring Hero
posted January 21, 2003 05:38 PM

stealth

I think I read somewhere, your thief can be seen (his stealth is nonfunctional) when he is close to a castle or another hero. Can someone tell me what the restrictions are for stealth.
____________

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StormKnight
StormKnight

Tavern Dweller
posted January 21, 2003 07:30 PM

Quote:
Why do some heroes learn a spell automatically when they
learn f.ex. Basic Death magic, and some don't?


If someone gets Basic (x) magic, and doesn't have any spells of that college, they learn a new one.  If they already have spells from that college, they don't.
____________
My famous last words in Heroes I: "I don't know what ghosts do, but I've got a few thousand goblins, I should be able to fight them!"

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