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| Thread: Huge problem... |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Azagal
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Smooth Snake
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posted May 19, 2011 04:33 PM |
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Quote:
Frankly, it sounds to me like her friend is being selfish.
See this is the point I don't agree with from both you and Doom. Her friend came up to Evinin telling her that she wanted to kiss her. That's a big deal. She's done so because Evinin is one of her closest friends and because she may have misinterpreted something Evinin said. That may have been because she's simply curious to know what it'd be like or because she actually has feelings for Evinin bottom line is that it took courage and that she herself doesn't seem to completely understand her own feelings. Then getting confronted about them made her panic.
That's not being selfish that's a perfectly normal reaction if you ask me.
I'm not saying my interpretation of the situation is right, you both may have a point and maybe she IS manipulating her but based on what we know I find it unfair to assume she is. I mean Evinin isn't the only one that has a lot to deal with over this issue.
That doesn't the change the fact that you're right about your advice, making the situation clear to her friend so she can't missinterpret her silence. The mother thing might have complicated the issue somewhat though...
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Azagal
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Smooth Snake
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posted May 19, 2011 04:38 PM |
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Edited by Azagal at 16:40, 19 May 2011.
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Quote:
Nor do I have any idea how "jokes", "sometimes feeling a little lesby" and "I thought everyone knew it was a joke" fit together.
That's because we're guys we don't understand stuff like that .
Seriously though I don't think we can evaluate that one because we're guys. The situation is different for girls since homoerotic jokes are a lot more natural for them than they are for guys. It still comes down to the girls that do the joking but in general it's a lot more casual than you'd think. Atleast from my experience (not small since the subject has interested me for quite a while).
It'd be nice to have a girls point of view on that though since I'm also a guy and thus me "correcting" JJ isn't really all that effective by my own words...
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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evinin
Supreme Hero
Servant of Asha
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posted May 19, 2011 04:55 PM |
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My friend is really mad at me and said that I'm really stupid (it's not the same but I can't remember the word in English) and that she doesn't want to talk to me or think about me and that she has no feelings towards me but her words sounded really confusing and she admitted that she's confused about herself and yes... I so fail at life. I'm trying not to feel guilty about it - after all - how was I supposed to know that her mother would read everything? I said that I won't bother her if she doesn't want to talk to me. I guess I have to wait from now on, I apologized a couple of times, I don't think I can do more now.
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JoonasTo
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted May 19, 2011 06:13 PM |
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You didn't do anything wrong. PERIOD.
If she let's her mother in on her contacts, IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT.
Too late, but if she doesn't want to talk to you, it's not like you can do much about it. If she does, be straight.
(And unless she lives in a majorly jackass family, it might actually be a good thing.)
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Doomforge
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posted May 19, 2011 06:33 PM |
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Quote:
That's not being selfish that's a perfectly normal reaction if you ask me.
Would you act like that Azzie?
Even if you had high hopes for a girl that is your friend and would be dissapointed that her "signs of affection" were just jokes - would you actually alienate?
ESPECIALLY if she wasn't exactly "your" orientation (let's say a lesbian) AND in relationship with someone ALREADY!
It's not like Evenin is single, declared lesbian and she's acting like that for eternity. Which still wouldn't be enough to act all offended. People flirt all the time.
Her friend is grossly overreacting, and the worst part is that Evenin did NOTHING to offend her, both intentionally and unintentionally. And people who fly in a rage because someone said something... well if they were joking all along, what's so horrible about it? A girl, hetero, in relationship, saying to a girl "let's make out" and laughing about it... seriously, is there anything remotely offensive about this?
And because of such illogical overreaction - I'd say her friend doesn't really care about 'friendship'. She already set her goal - and nothing else interests her, and once it became clear to her Evenin is nothing she imagined - she broke off the friendship. Meaning that it's "all or nothing" for that girl.
And for that, good riddance, dare I say.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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mvassilev
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posted May 19, 2011 06:40 PM |
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Here's what you say: "I'm not really a lesbian, you do understand that was a joke, right?" If she doesn't like it - that's just the way things are. You don't owe her anything. But it doesn't sound like she's manipulating you, either. She's probably confused, which is why you need to be very clear and consistent.
BTW, unlike some of you, I can imagine joking about that. My friends and I frequently joke about getting and having one-night stands: "We should get drunk!", "Let's go pick up girls at a party and sleep with them, like bros!", etc. They're jokes because we'd never do either and the idea is amusing.
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Eccentric Opinion
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JoonasTo
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted May 19, 2011 06:48 PM |
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Quote:
BTW, unlike some of you, I can imagine joking about that. My friends and I frequently joke about getting and having one-night stands: "We should get drunk!", "Let's go pick up girls at a party and sleep with them, like bros!", etc. They're jokes because we'd never do either and the idea is amusing.
Change with slap 
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evinin
Supreme Hero
Servant of Asha
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posted May 19, 2011 07:14 PM |
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She doesn't want to talk about the situation. She says that she's confused and that she doesn't want to think of me right now. We are talking about other things now, I'm trying to make her comfortable and all. She had some problems with her mother, but she's more worried about what she feels. She doesn't want to say it directly and she doesn't want to talk with me about that. I'll give her time.
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Azagal
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Smooth Snake
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posted May 19, 2011 07:18 PM |
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Wow wow wow slow down Doom
Quote:
she broke off the friendship.
what? Look I'm not defending the idea that her friend has a right to be offended by the fact that Evinin isn't interested in her, because that would be ridiculous. The thing is you're blowing this way out of proportion. All we know is that her friend stoped talking to her after being confronted by Evinin about her feelings for her (Evinin). And that she was mad after her mom read everything Evinin wrote which would indicate that her daughter is atleast bicurious. OF COURSE she's mad about that part.
And why do both you and mvass relate this to something heterosexual?
This wouldn't be the same if I told a girl something I'd have to come on to a guy and you'd have to be joking about making out with guys for it to be same so no mvass you don't frequently joke about that, or maybe you do but it's still different.
Look at what we know: Evinins friend is confused about her feelings, she was confronted about it and stopped talking to Evinin. That's not breaking of a friendship.
Questioning your own sexuality can not be a pleasant ordeal and comming to terms with it can most certainly not be easy. Being so bluntly confronted about her problems just made her short-circut and panic. Her not talking to Evinin was because she had no idea what to say herself (Evinin told us that she admitted she's confused).
The whole "I think you're stupid and I'm not talking to you anymore" thing was because her mother unfortunately read all the stuff Evinin wrote. And she has every right to be upset and angry about that, it's not Evinins fault that happend but of course she's angry! Imagine you weren't sure about your sexuality and then your parents come to you and may just bother you with tons of questions and sermons because they think you're a homosexual. If you're lucky they'll be able to deal with it no problem but due to social stigma being gay is still a big deal for some people. If you parents are understanding good for you but if they're not there's no worse way for them to find out or half grasp stuff from your private conversations with others!
All I'm saying is I do not understand why you and others condemn her so hard already when there is no evidence to support your claims. Sure your ideas aren't impossible but given the circumstances they're not the most likely either.
Evinin said she's one of her closest friends you'd like to believe that means something when she says it.
I feel sorry for her friend. Not because of anything Evinin did to her but because of her situation which is pretty ****ed up if you ask me. I don't know how old she is but that can be a lot to handle for anyone. She really needs a friend now if you ask me and making her feel like she's being a complete a$$hole (like some of you suggest) for understandable (if not 100% rational) decisions is just stupid. Sorry but that's not going to help anyone.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Azagal
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posted May 19, 2011 07:18 PM |
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Edited by Azagal at 19:20, 19 May 2011.
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@Evinin
Perfect.
@Doubters
See? Would a heartless ***** that wants to "break off their friendship" and manipulate her talk to Evinin now? She's not trying to make her feel bad either. 1:0 for Friendship!
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted May 19, 2011 07:22 PM |
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Quote:
My friend is really mad at me and said that I'm really stupid (it's not the same but I can't remember the word in English) and that she doesn't want to talk to me or think about me and that she has no feelings towards me but her words sounded really confusing and she admitted that she's confused about herself and yes... I so fail at life. I'm trying not to feel guilty about it - after all - how was I supposed to know that her mother would read everything? I said that I won't bother her if she doesn't want to talk to me. I guess I have to wait from now on, I apologized a couple of times, I don't think I can do more now.
I would recommend talking to her, going to a movie or something, and then see what bottles up insides your head.
If nothing even turns up: Congratulations, you have just proved you are either straight or just minorly bisexual.
However, if a stream of the various classics of:
*"But we can't do that!"
*"But I AM NOT LESBIAN!"
*"What will others say?????!?!?"
*Various passive childhood images piling up slowly, creating some sort of mental block
*etc
then frankly, then you are most likely not straight, and you are repressed by society. Or you are just very nervous.
If it in the ends turn out you there was nothing there, at the least give her a hug and say that you are sorry for nothing happening.
No harm, except whatever society might think.
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Azagal
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posted May 19, 2011 07:29 PM |
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Because remember Evinin if clichée sentenches pop up in your head while your in a cinema sitting next to a girl that might be into you is a definet way to find out whether you're actually gay and is wastly superior to taking some time for yourself to think about the issue and then have a talk with your friend.
Oh also don't bring your boyfriend to the cinema that might screw up your calculations.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Doomforge
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posted May 19, 2011 07:29 PM |
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Quote:
And why do both you and mvass relate this to something heterosexual?
This wouldn't be the same if I told a girl something I'd have to come on to a guy and you'd have to be joking about making out with guys for it to be same so no mvass you don't frequently joke about that, or maybe you do but it's still different.
I didn't. I even gave an example that should point out I don't relate anything to orientation (particularly hetero- homo- or bi-).
It's more about the fact that friends getting pissed off is a different scenario when the friend actually has hots for you. Hence I mention sexuality. it's not about Evenin's friend getting mad at her cause she broke her favorite vase or whatever else, it's (according to Evenin's somehwat accurate description) about sexuality.
Quote:
Look at what we know: Evinins friend is confused about her feelings, she was confronted about it and stopped talking to Evinin. That's not breaking of a friendship.
Not talking to someone isn't breaking the friendship? well it definitively isn't when the person stops the "not talking" part
otherwise it is.
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The whole "I think you're stupid and I'm not talking to you anymore" thing was because her mother unfortunately read all the stuff Evinin wrote. And she has every right to be upset and angry about that, it's not Evinins fault that happend but of course she's angry! Imagine you weren't sure about your sexuality and then your parents come to you and may just bother you with tons of questions and sermons because they think you're a homosexual. If you're lucky they'll be able to deal with it no problem but due to social stigma being gay is still a big deal for some people. If you parents are understanding good for you but if they're not there's no worse way for them to find out or half grasp stuff from your private conversations with others!
The girl should blame everyone but Evenin for that.
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I feel sorry for her friend. Not because of anything Evinin did to her but because of her situation which is pretty ****ed up if you ask me. I don't know how old she is but that can be a lot to handle for anyone. She really needs a friend now if you ask me and making her feel like she's being a complete a$$hole (like some of you suggest) for understandable (if not 100% rational) decisions is just stupid. Sorry but that's not going to help anyone.
Not everyone is about helping the world and being a goody two shoe Azagal particularly not me, I just don't care that much, if someone acts unfair to me without any logical reason (i.e. I didn't really do anything wrong), my first and only reaction is to say "ok, fine, have it your way, bye". If the person resolves his/hers issues eventually and comes to apologize (or simply admit he/she was wrong) I'm ok with that and "resume" friendship. If not, oh well, good riddance. Plus, acting like that may perhaps teach the person a very important lesson: not to lash out on people that are friendly towards you. Some people just need to be taught that the hard way, or they will simply continuously lash out on you every time something wrong happens. Which is not only annoying, but also very unfair thing to do.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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mvassilev
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posted May 19, 2011 07:31 PM |
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My example is more in response to JJ, who saidQuote:
I suppose "joking" means something like "funny phantasizing", combining joke/fun with some kind of "thrill" -, I actually wouldn't be too surprised, if one day I got an invitation from one or more of those who are "WE" to not just talk about it, but actually DO it.
I know that this is so - I mean, if it was COMPLETELY impossible and out of the question it would be no fun.
And I gave an example in which we joke bout things that are out of the question - and yet the joke is still fun. It is sort of funny fantasizing - funny because it's amusingly contrary to everything we know about each other. It'd be like Wilt Chamberlain joking about becoming celibate.
Also, I don't advise doing what del_diablo suggested. You'd be sending her mixed messages, which is the opposite of what you want to do right now. If you're not interested, make it clear - don't let her think there's a chance. No, the best thing is to be consistent when she talks about it, and try to ignore it and act normal otherwise.
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Azagal
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posted May 19, 2011 07:41 PM |
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Ah ok mvass I thought you were talking about the Evinin joking part. Makes sense now.
The problem with your line of thought Doom is you speak in general when we have a very concrete scenario here.
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Evenin's friend getting mad at her...about sexuality
See that? Evinin never said that. And she never said her friend was mad at her until the "her mom found out" part and that's not about sexuality either.
You're condemning her on the basis of things that aren't there. She's not talking to Evinin after being confronted because she herself doesn't know what to think! Panicing and not answering question when you have no answers yourself is perfectly normal and isn't equal to her breaking of their friendship by any stretch.
I mean your whole last paragraph hasn't got anything to do with the subject at hand anymore.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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gnomes2169
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posted May 19, 2011 08:10 PM |
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@ DF/ JJ, I don't think that you fully grasp just how irrational people are sometimes. Jokes are one of the pinnacles of irrationality, saying things that you in no way mean, and people understand that. In fact, sometimes people laugh at it. It just happens, and it gets ingraned into your psyche that this is automatically a joke (Which is actually kind of rational...  Back to my point). So you spend years joking about something, and then one of your close friends who has made these jokes with you comes up to you and asks you out. You are straight, and are genuinely confused when they get mad when you take it as a joke. You ask them if they are serious, and suddenly your friend gets emberrased. Their face turns red as they blush and they try to re-direct the conversation, come out and say yes or walk away.
If the walk away or try to avoid the subject then later they redirect their shame into a bit of what is called irrational anger. It should only take them a little while to get over it and for everything to return to normal, but in the mean time problems that occur in your friend's life indirectly related to you becomes at least partially your fault. This is, in fact, a natural human reaction. If you feal that someone emberrased you, then you will be angry at them, even if it is irrational. This situation isn't about how people should act, it's about how human beings with wounded emotions do act.
Now Evinin, since you are already at the irrational anger/ annoyance stage (actually a good sign), you should give her time and a little space. Don't joke about "Being lesbi" or stuff around her for a while, and try to discourage your friends as well. Another tip, don't act any differently infront of people when around her. If in private you avoid discussion of what happened and don't make subtle hints at it while in public acting like nothing happened, then she will begin to feel that she can trust you again, and that nothing is awkward between you two. Give her time to figure something out, and give her time to settle down and build up your trust. Eventually she should take you to the side and open up to you, tell you what she feels and how the situation effected her.
At this point, don't make any jokes at all. Take everything she says seriously, and when she asks you a question or when she asks you opinion, answer as honestly as you can. Set the boundries if she reveals that she does like you more than a normal friend should, and she should respect those boundries. You should go back to being friends like before.
Unfortunately, no matter what you do it will be a long and slow road to get back to wher you were before,b ut if this relationshp is important to you, then it will be worth it. Trust me. 
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-Ghost destroying Fred
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JollyJoker
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posted May 19, 2011 08:13 PM |
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Mvass, you didn't contradict me, on the contrary.
Anyway, people, it's definitely not about who is being right and who is wrong and who is to blame and who is not. When it comes to relationships no one is ever completely right/wrong, and these things have nothing to do with sorting out who said when what, who had a right to say what he said without being misunderstood or blamed...
That's not how these things are working, and that is not how these things are solved. You éither care for someone or you don't. If you do, the question wrong7right/blame/guilt is of secondary concern, if any at all - if someone has bad feelings about something it doesn't help telling her/him, that she has no right to feel the way she does because you didn't do anything wrong.
It's completely beside the point. (Which is part of the reason why I disagree with Corribus.)
Azzie and I may not have exactly the same opinion here, but I think we are pretty close - close enough for me to support him here for simplicity
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted May 19, 2011 08:14 PM |
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Quote:
That's not how these things are working, and that is not how these things are solved. You éither care for someone or you don't. If you do, the question wrong7right/blame/guilt is of secondary concern, if any at all - if someone has bad feelings about something it doesn't help telling her/him, that she has no right to feel the way she does because you didn't do anything wrong.
It's completely beside the point. (Which is part of the reason why I disagree with Corribus.)
I don't see how what you wrote had anything to do with what I said.
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evinin
Supreme Hero
Servant of Asha
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posted May 19, 2011 08:31 PM |
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We are talking now. Not talking about the situation but I have no intention of starting such a conversation. If she wants to talk about it I'll be ready to hear her out but I won't push her now. She has also calmed down and we're trying to act normal but it's not the same, I can feel it. I share a specific emotional connection with this girl, we can feel each other's emotions but it's not like "I'm happy, she's happy" - it's "I'm happy, she's sad" and it's like this 90% of the time. I hope that things will get back to normal some day.
Thank you all again, I really needed some advise and some support.
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JollyJoker
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posted May 19, 2011 08:35 PM |
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You said, relationships are a lot like protracted wars.
That's only the case when you discuss right or wrong or blame or fault when there is a problem - when someone feels HURT - which seems to be the case here.
If it's only about "washing it off", trying to establish that "I did nothing wrong" and "you misunderstood me", you are indeed at war. If someone you care about feels and expresses hurt, the question of right/wrong and guilt or blame should not matter.
That's why a relationship is no war - if it becomes a war, it's no relationship anymore, but an intimate enmity, and it should never be protracted, except if you want to be unhappy.
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