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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted September 15, 2015 10:24 PM |
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Dave_Jame said:
alcibiades said:
I just plain 100 % disagree with this statement.
You know when was the last time each hero had the same value as any other? H2, since there were no specializations and one single class.
Heroes IV, anyone?
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malax83
Famous Hero
Game ranger, HotA Player
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posted September 15, 2015 10:37 PM |
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Edited by malax83 at 22:43, 15 Sep 2015.
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natalka said:
I can't believe you see this system as restrictive.
There s no more restrictive than an useless rule.
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted September 15, 2015 11:10 PM |
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gourley4p
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 16, 2015 12:00 AM |
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kiryu133 said:
Oh look! A CE only map!
snow off 
It is having the desired marketing effect. When I pre-ordered, I didn't want to shell out an additional $10 (or whatever amount) at the time. Now that I have already paid--that initial purchase cost is spent--and I see this story, I am wishing for an option to upgrade.
I am fascinated by why this is working on me, too. I have played Hearthstone, for instance, since launch without spending a penny and made it into the top 25% of players worldwide (but never ranked in the top tier). I don't feel any pull to spend money on that game. MMH7, though. That is a different story. I enjoyed my two beta experiences and look forward to more.
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted September 16, 2015 12:03 AM |
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gourley4p said:
kiryu133 said:
Oh look! A CE only map!
snow off
It is having the desired marketing effect. When I pre-ordered, I didn't want to shell out an additional $10 (or whatever amount) at the time. Now that I have already paid--that initial purchase cost is spent--and I see this story, I am wishing for an option to upgrade.
I am fascinated by why this is working on me, too. I have played Hearthstone, for instance, since launch without spending a penny and made it into the top 25% of players worldwide (but never ranked in the top tier). I don't feel any pull to spend money on that game. MMH7, though. That is a different story. I enjoyed my two beta experiences and look forward to more.
Just think. Ignoring those collector's items, you are practically paying money for an extra map. This is on the level when Beth had partly enforced the rule of paying mods when playing Skyrim. And that wasn't praised one bit. At all.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 16, 2015 12:19 AM |
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alcibiades said:
Both systems have a fixed set of skills available to you based on your hero class, with a pre-determined max level you can get to based on your hero class, and making you pick your skill order yourself. That, for me, is the core shared by these two systems, and that.
Fully agree with you alcibiades and fully disagree with Dave. I've actually played the game and felt the same throughout my sessions. Furthermore, the devs themselves admitted that the H7 Skillpizza is a combination of H6 and H5, but that much should be obvious on its own.
____________
Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted September 16, 2015 12:34 AM |
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Edited by natalka at 00:38, 16 Sep 2015.
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Solmyr has 4 magic and 8 spirit and I think he is OP. All other academy heroes have like 3 6.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted September 16, 2015 12:46 AM |
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Dave_Jame said:
*snip*
It's kind of hard to keep a meaningful discussion when you seem hard-set on misunderstanding every single thing I write. Might be I'm just unclear, but it seems like every single thing I write you then quite and talk about something completely different.
Meanwhile, here's an example of what I love about the H5 skill system.
Fun hero build
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted September 16, 2015 12:48 AM |
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Edited by natalka at 01:03, 16 Sep 2015.
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Yeah right and 3 skills there are with 2% chance you are not proving anything here. That`s a single player build achieved with hero scanner possibly.
Stop the skill argument already!! In previous heroes I always picked same skills each game anyway. It was your fault you couldn`t do it ..
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted September 16, 2015 12:56 AM |
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Edited by Pawek_13 at 01:03, 16 Sep 2015.
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alcibiades said:
Dave_Jame said:
*snip*
It's kind of hard to keep a meaningful discussion when you seem hard-set on misunderstanding every single thing I write. Might be I'm just unclear, but it seems like every single thing I write you then quite and talk about something completely different.
Meanwhile, here's an example of what I love about the H5 skill system.
Fun hero build
Sadly, such a build wasn't possible in Heroes V. It was only in ToE when such variety of abilities was introduced.
PS. Check out Refined Mana ability and all its prerequisites to see some true Heroes V goodness.  It reminds me of something...
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted September 16, 2015 01:44 AM |
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This is probably explained somewhere but I still didn't found it: will the tavern be like in heroes 3 and 5 or by faction like in Heroes IV? Cause it looks to me that if specs will be of creature growth, different sets of heroes for the different taverns would make more sense but I don't think this is what they are doing.
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted September 16, 2015 04:46 AM |
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@alcibiades
Well to have a meaningful discussion you should first at least try to HAVE a discussion. You are hell bent on the idea that H7 system is too close to H6 based on two fact, while ignoring the more common similarities it has with other systems, that it doesn't have with the H6 one, and the lack of H6 core characteristics in it. IDC about why you love H5 system, this is not the topic here. I just want to point out, that the H7 system is not a H6 update. I wrote this before so I may quote myself:
Quote:
dislike it for what it is, not for what you brand it as
and Quote:
It is just the dress worn by a very, very different girl.
Call it an inferior H5 parody, but not a H6 update. Is it that hard?
@EnergyZ
In H4 you five out of six factions had 2 hero classes, with different chance based access for skills if I know correctly. So -> 2 variations on class accessibility
____________
I'm just a Mirror of your self.
We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.
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jhb
Famous Hero
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posted September 16, 2015 06:40 AM |
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cleglaw said:
"cursed volcano known as Mount Iblis"
another sign for efreet (:
explanation:
1-iblis means efreet in my language.
2-volcano means lava, which efreeti dwell.
3-map is related to djinns and you know, efreets are related to djinns very closely
i wouldnt be suprised if they also feature an efreet unit in later days, if not ine xpension (:
 nice catch! 
Thanks to you and google, I've discovered some really awesome stuff about 'Iblis'.
Got a thing for names and etymology.
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted September 16, 2015 06:57 AM |
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alcibiades said:
Meanwhile, here's an example of what I love about the H5 skill system.
Fun hero build
What??? Only 3 perks per skill???? That's restricting!!!!!
You can spend points to fully develop a skill or learn what you want from that skill. And still take care of what else you want to learn. In other words point-management is just as strategic as having to pick one of 4 choices. I loved H5 system, but that doesn't mean i hate the H7,because they are not opposites. Also it was said the random system will be worked more.
Also in order to get to the advanced skill you had to have one perk from basic, right?
Like in H7. H5 and H7 have more in common than H6 and H7. H5 did have race based wheels,and your racial had only 3 perks. In H7 we don't have have that,but your racial has 7 perks!!!!!!! It almost balances it out!!! I can find more similarities but I'm bored
H7 system is almost nothing like H6(only free picking is the same) and thank goodness for that. Remember to enjoy the game.
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TD
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted September 16, 2015 07:36 AM |
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OK, I'll just list the things I like about h5 ToE skill-system. You can think for yourself how many of these does h7 REALLY have.
1) It has lots of unique abilities and some shared between certain factions.
2) It has dependencies and synergies between abilities which forces player to think and evaluate what to choose because(read 3.)
3) It has limited number of ability-slots available.
4) The random system was very controllable, yet it made sure every game is different and sometimes it would force your hand to completely change your plan. Part of this control was that you can "upgrade" skills without first taking abilities.
5) It had great racial skills that made all factions feel unique and they had no overlapse between each other
6) It had racial ultimates which were in general awesome and much fun to strive towards(except couple like havens for example).
7) It had all skills available to all factions(orcs being special), but the "hated" skills simply had very low chance to appear.
8) Very little overlapse between skills/abilities/spells between each other. There are some synergies. This is how skills should be, you get one type of boosts from skill X, another from skill Y as in what the skill represents.
9) It has level limit 40 which is pretty much impossible to get by fighting, but at least it's something to strive for(even if only stats or just for the heck of it). It would be much better if there was no limit at all, but at least the battles essentially don't end up as being 100% worthless(unlike in certain later games).
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted September 16, 2015 08:31 AM |
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Dave_Jame said:
@alcibiades
Well to have a meaningful discussion you should first at least try to HAVE a discussion. You are hell bent on the idea that H7 system is too close to H6 based on two fact, while ignoring the more common similarities it has with other systems, that it doesn't have with the H6 one, and the lack of H6 core characteristics in it. IDC about why you love H5 system, this is not the topic here. I just want to point out, that the H7 system is not a H6 update.
Ok let me point it out again: That is completely subjective! Like I said already, we can have - and do have - different perceptions about what is *the core* of the skill system, i.e. what are the *important features* of the skill system. And in my opinion (and please don't tell me once again I'm wrong in saying what my opinion is), in my opinion H6 and H7 skill systems share some very fundamental flaws, namely one: The fact that they are not (controlled-)random, and two: The fact that your choice of class cuts you off from developing a skill to highest level. On top of that, H7 adds a new grievance, namely three: Your choice of class locks you in a subset of 10 available skills right from the beginning of the game (which more or less makes up for the good advances made to H6 system imo.).
Now I'm not saying that the two skill systems are identical, what I say is that these very fundamental design properties which they share prevents me from liking these skill system. It does that for a number of reasons which I could elaborate (I think it favors cookie-cutter builds and hence reduces replayability; I think it's from a game-design pov. unsound to have to lock your possible skill pool at the very start of the game with no chance of adapting to circumstances; I think it takes away much of the excitement of leveling up and building your hero) - but apart from the reasons, please accept that this is my opinion, and it's mine to have, just like you are entitled to yours. I could add that from what I've seen on this forum over the years since H6, I'm very far from the only one with that opinion, which is why I find it particularly disapointing that the developers choose to ignore it, but that's a different story.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted September 16, 2015 08:48 AM |
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cleglaw said:
"cursed volcano known as Mount Iblis"
another sign for efreet (:
Sonic '06 confirmed for M&MH7!
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted September 16, 2015 09:12 AM |
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bloodsucker said:
This is probably explained somewhere but I still didn't found it: will the tavern be like in heroes 3 and 5 or by faction like in Heroes IV? Cause it looks to me that if specs will be of creature growth, different sets of heroes for the different taverns would make more sense but I don't think this is what they are doing.
There are 4 heroes per each Hall of Heroes and exactly one of these will be a hero of a faction that the player plays with.
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Avonu
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
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posted September 16, 2015 09:42 AM |
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Edited by Avonu at 10:20, 16 Sep 2015.
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Pawek_13 said:
There are 4 heroes per each Hall of Heroes and exactly one of these will be a hero of a faction that the player plays with.
In pre-release game version, which was showed to/played by visiting press (it was different then beta 2) there were 2 faction heroes in Tavern... or maybe I was lucky.
cleglaw said:
"cursed volcano known as Mount Iblis"
another sign for efreet (:
explanation:
1-iblis means efreet in my language.
2-volcano means lava, which efreeti dwell.
3-map is related to djinns and you know, efreets are related to djinns very closely
i wouldnt be suprised if they also feature an efreet unit in later days, if not ine xpension (:
IIRC Iblis means the Devil
Also
spoiler!!!
Solmyr the Djinn Lord will be fighting against Raksha the H3's Efreet Demoniac Efreet Chaos Lord (former Wizard) to rescue his sister Nur.
"565 YSD: The powerful Djinn Solmyr sets out to find the lost Tower of the Efreet, hoping to discover the fate that befell his sister Nur."
/spoiler
____________
"When someone desires information, they come to me."
"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted September 16, 2015 10:59 AM |
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Avonu said:
spoiler!!!
Solmyr the Djinn Lord will be fighting against Raksha the H3's Efreet Demoniac Efreet Chaos Lord (former Wizard) to rescue his sister Nur.
"565 YSD: The powerful Djinn Solmyr sets out to find the lost Tower of the Efreet, hoping to discover the fate that befell his sister Nur."
/spoiler
Is that info credible? As in there is no doubt not a single detail is false?
And, uh, how is that even possible? There are no demonic troops in H7, aside neutral ones.
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This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
