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| Thread: Perfect Heroes game for you | |
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Antalyan
Promising
Supreme Hero
H7 Forever
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posted February 16, 2016 06:38 PM |
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Perfect Heroes game for you
Going through different discussions (not only) about H7, I often find dozens of complaints how bad H6/H7 are and how many things should have gone in a different way. So, I'd like you to imagine how would a PERFECT Heroes game for you look like? I don't want to hear what is bad in different Heroes games right now, just imagine you are a Creative Ubi director (instead of one well-known one) and describe roughly your conception.
Several ideas what it could include: Graphics 2D or 3D? Flanking yes/no? Is story interesting for you? Which skillsystem, magic system, town development? Any new ideas for game mechanics you would like to see?
P.S: Please, do not describe things like smart AI or good technical quality&stability. I think these are the features everybody - excluding Ubi - knows and expects them to be a neccessity.
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Important H7 tips & tricks
H7 Community Patch (UCP)
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 16, 2016 09:03 PM |
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this thread was already made, somewhere.
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The_Polyglot
Promising
Supreme Hero
Nuttier than squirrel poo
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posted February 16, 2016 09:26 PM |
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I'm going to be laughed at, but here goes:
Art style: H2, definitely. Hand-drawn 2D graphics just fit the game so well. H3's design was also good, but it was way more serious, grown-up-y. H5's 3D approach was confusing, game elements were fugly, textures blurry... H6&H7, the less said, the better.
Creatures: 3 tiers, 3 + 3 + 2. 5 unit slots per hero. economic soft cap means forfeiting 1 core, 1 elite, and 1 champion unit in most cases, but buildings are not greyed out, ever. Rush builds of 2 cores/3 Elites are possible, but risky, building and maintaining both Champions only possible very late in the game, with multiple secondary sources of income
Economy: 3 rare resources, wood & ore, gold. Every faction needs all 3 to build up their town, in a way so you use up light amounts of 1 to build up cores, medium to high amounts of 2 and 3 to build the elites and the champion(s). Units are designed in such a way to nudge you towards using 2 cores, 2 elites and one champion, and this is reflected in their pricing. Breaking the mold, on top of straining your resources, will significantly alter how a faction plays, typically by magnifying weaknesses that you will need to learn to play around, but will have just enough benefits to make it a viable alternative. Map design can also force you to adopt a different strategy, by manipulating what resources are at your disposal.
Upgrades: I'd like to see a mix of H2 and H3 here. In H2, it was hardcoded what units were good enough to stand up to others without needing an upgrade, then in H3 everybody had an upgrade... So what I'm envisioning is this: You will have a multitude of factors affecting whether you will choose an upgraded unit. Firstly, EVERY upgrade will need a resource, including the possibility of gold.(In that case, the cost difference between upgraded and unupgraded units will be more significant than average). Secondly, upgrades won't necessarily be better than unupgraded ones, just different(Along the lines of Thane vs Flame Lord) Abilities will only carry over to the upgrade in the rarest of cases, instead they will be replaced. An endgame army will still contain unupgraded units mixed with upgraded ones, with different mixes resulting in different strategies. Having every upgrade will be hardcoded to be undesirable at best: You will have a fix number of upgrades that can be built in any given town. It can produce up to 8 kinds of creatures, but you will be able to upgrade only 3. This way, you'd have to have at least 2 towns of the same alignment to produce a fully-upgraded lineup of any given set of 5 creatures.
Factions: I'd prefer 5 towns designed in such a way that every unit combination possible has a distinct playstyle rather than 8 or nine where the choice is illusionary at best.
What else, hmm... This is basically all I would care about, but things like townscreens and Romero's music would be welcome.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted February 16, 2016 10:45 PM |
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fred79 said:
this thread was already made, somewhere.
Many times I bet. In this very section of the forum.
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted February 16, 2016 11:50 PM |
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The_Polyglot said:
Creatures: 3 tiers, 3 + 3 + 2. 5 unit slots per hero. economic soft cap means forfeiting 1 core, 1 elite, and 1 champion unit in most cases, but buildings are not greyed out, ever. Rush builds of 2 cores/3 Elites are possible, but risky, building and maintaining both Champions only possible very late in the game, with multiple secondary sources of income
Economy: 3 rare resources, wood & ore, gold. Every faction needs all 3 to build up their town, in a way so you use up light amounts of 1 to build up cores, medium to high amounts of 2 and 3 to build the elites and the champion(s). Units are designed in such a way to nudge you towards using 2 cores, 2 elites and one champion, and this is reflected in their pricing. Breaking the mold, on top of straining your resources, will significantly alter how a faction plays, typically by magnifying weaknesses that you will need to learn to play around, but will have just enough benefits to make it a viable alternative. Map design can also force you to adopt a different strategy, by manipulating what resources are at your disposal.
Upgrades: I'd like to see a mix of H2 and H3 here. In H2, it was hardcoded what units were good enough to stand up to others without needing an upgrade, then in H3 everybody had an upgrade... So what I'm envisioning is this: You will have a multitude of factors affecting whether you will choose an upgraded unit. Firstly, EVERY upgrade will need a resource, including the possibility of gold.(In that case, the cost difference between upgraded and unupgraded units will be more significant than average). Secondly, upgrades won't necessarily be better than unupgraded ones, just different(Along the lines of Thane vs Flame Lord) Abilities will only carry over to the upgrade in the rarest of cases, instead they will be replaced. An endgame army will still contain unupgraded units mixed with upgraded ones, with different mixes resulting in different strategies. Having every upgrade will be hardcoded to be undesirable at best: You will have a fix number of upgrades that can be built in any given town. It can produce up to 8 kinds of creatures, but you will be able to upgrade only 3. This way, you'd have to have at least 2 towns of the same alignment to produce a fully-upgraded lineup of any given set of 5 creatures.
Factions: I'd prefer 5 towns designed in such a way that every unit combination possible has a distinct playstyle rather than 8 or nine where the choice is illusionary at best.
About tiers, I personally don't like that much; there isn't a distinctive difference between stats from tier 1 and tier 2 creatures. It could work on 4 or 5. Didn't hear much complaints from others, though.
As for the economy, maybe one more than one less to give more diversity. I wouldn't be against the idea of having less, but the more, the better, I say.
Upgrades - here. Some state having no upgrades makes the game simplified.
I just only wanted to point out there is much more to it; a lot of people hate Heroes VI and VII for a lot of reasons, including some revolutionary ideas, some which even you proposed.
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The_Polyglot
Promising
Supreme Hero
Nuttier than squirrel poo
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posted February 16, 2016 11:55 PM |
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You misunderstand, every unit would have an upgrade but you could only build a limited amount of them in each town. Which units you upgrade is up to you
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Sanity through drugs. Order yours today!
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Articun
Supreme Hero
As i dream, so shall it be!
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posted February 17, 2016 11:05 AM |
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This might be a little long or not, will see how it goes.
For me, the perfect game of Heroes should provide the following:
1. The chance to build my army as i want it in each Faction. This can be done many ways. One way is by alternative upgrades, but that offers little diversity because it is just the same units with different skins and maybe good abilities. Another way is to offer the choice between 2 units in each tier like in Heroes 4. The best way though is to go with 4/4/2 or 4/4/3 or preferrably 5/5/3 choices. What i mean is to have available 5 units from which you can build in your town only the 3 for core, 5 to choose 3 from elite and choosing 1 out of 3 for Champion.
-For more info, visit Inolin to find out what a good example for a 7 tier system with diversity is.
-This way allows for a great increase in replayability as you cannot know what the opponent will choose to build and each time you can choose a different lineup.
-Though this is very hard to achieve and Balance out, it is worth doing and long overdue.
2. AI. A good heroes game should have varied scaled difficulties. From easy for the casual gamer that wants to play and just go on slowly to Impossible for those that wanna feel like every signle movement point should be spent right. AI should also be flexible enough to provide a good challenge, meaning that it will not do wtf moves during battles or ignoring resources and expirience gain and so on.
3. Balance. The need to balance out all Factions has killed the game, making all Factions feel the same and quite generic. Heroes does not really need balance that much. The overall armies should be comparative in strength but that does not mean that each faction should have 2 shooters, 2 flyers and the rest be melee. There are many types of units that can be impelemented and are not in the game: Healer, saboteur, enhancer, tank, fast flyer, tank flyer, fast walker, tank walker, damage walker, teleporter. Having all those roles makes the game more interesting, as you may wanna sacrifice a devastating damage output for some interesting abilities that will help your mediocre damage dealer stand much more in battle and so on.
4. Immersion. For me, immersion is very important in a game. And this consists of various aspects.
-First and foremost the UI. The UI for me should be customized differently for each faction, and i mean just graphical details portraying the feel of the faction. Lambs and books and parchement for the Academy, Totems and swords for Stronghold and so on, in a way that makes you feel that yeah, right now i am playing Stronghold allright.
-The UI should be simple, clean, readable and provide all info in an easy and understandable way. UI like Heroes III or IV were very nice indeed and pleasing to the eye as well.
-Music is also quite essential. When you play a game and you end up realizing that you do not hear the music or not remembering what music was playing in the previous battle, then something is wrong. Heroes IV was maybe the one that best managed to provide the music immersion, because even today its soundtrack can be heard and enjoyed while providing some nostalgic feelings. So yeah, a good sound score and a good amount of tracks, like different terrain music, generic battle music and faction battle music(s), adventure music and so on are important.
-Graphics. I don't mind having high fantasy elements like spikes and so on, or monstrus vampires, i just as well like the Lordly ones, but the units should be simpler in appearance indeed and without lore elements. The unit should feel good in its faction lineup but also stand its own. Adventure map objects should be distinguishable and clean.
-Animations. In 2016 animations and SFX should be very pleasing to the eye. Each unit should have a set of animations, like vicotry animation, attack animation, critical animation, ally fall animation and so on. Also a set of voives and sounds for the unit is also important, it doesn't only help the immersion but also the unit itself, it adds character and makes the unit even more alive.
Will try to update the post if need be, but these for now.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted February 17, 2016 11:08 AM |
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The Succession Wars Mod will hopefully fulfill my request for the purrfect Heroes game. 
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Mediczero
Famous Hero
Warlord of the sea
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posted February 20, 2016 09:12 PM |
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Hmm... I should write something down.
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Svartzorn
Known Hero
Dead struggling with death.
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posted February 20, 2016 10:46 PM |
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People still doubt HOMM3 takes the cake?
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Death to the world.
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sinistabg
Tavern Dweller
Pirate King
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posted March 22, 2016 12:03 PM |
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I would like a game that mixes the graphics from 2, 3 and 4 and mixes the game play of 2 and 3. Heroes is supposed to be a 2D franchise with lots of towns, lots of heroes, lots of monsters, lots of artifacts and lots of everything.
Since 5, the game became really dumbed-down for me and the last that I played was 6 and it was horrible. The lack of features doesn't bug me as much as the fact that everything looks like it's forced to be super epic. In fact most games after 2006 or so fall in this category. The Necropolis in Heroes 3 with the simplistic art style and all-around black and white theme is way scarier than Heroes 5+'s Necropolis wit everything being green and epic/majestic. When things are more simplified, they are more mysterious, as if they have a lot more going on under the simple surface, while the new design of epicness, really exhausts itself with its appearance. The art style of Morrowind for me is superior than the one in Skyrim and the one in Dragon Age Origins is superior to the one in Inquisition.
Before I stray off too much, I would like to mention that having more RPG into Heroes would also do a lot of good, like the tutorial for WoG, where you don't need a castle to exist, hence you don't have to constantly worry about it being taken over by some enemy. I wish New World Computing were still around and working on the franchise rather than having Ubisoft persistently ruing it with each new version. But as it's said, there is no complete happiness.
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my mind's got a mind of its own
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Cortes
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 27, 2016 11:11 PM |
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Hm...my perfect heroes game?
Graphic: The style from Disciples 3 has always somehow adressed me.
Units: I prefer 7 tiers but a real 2-1-2-1-1, the next step of H7 in that point could be nice as well.
Towns: Balance! Balance between race-based and theme-based towns.
You see, i do not need much. 
For now.
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