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| Thread: rmg.txt - Creating new templates |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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midnight
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted February 25, 2003 03:18 PM |
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too busy except weekends at the moment
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Kuma
Promising
Supreme Hero
u can type so much text in her
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posted February 25, 2003 03:36 PM |
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Too much bridge here in weekends lol
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haile73
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted February 28, 2003 09:33 AM |
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Reckless
a question about the Reckless template:
the non-necro towns in the "middle zones" have a fort prebuilt there. Has this been done on purpose? I would like to see forts removed, but maybe I just don't see the deeper meaning.
a more general question (happened to me on Reckless, but I've seen that on other templates too): is there a way to ensure road connections to adjacent zones? Sometimes the only way to other towns leads through the rough, other times you have a road to the same zone.
btw Reckless is good fun 
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Hexa
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted February 28, 2003 10:16 AM |
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And while we are at it.
Any idea when u are gonna get that new EXTREME template for Xl's uploaded?@
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If you want to realize your dreams >>> you have to wake up!@
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midnight
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted February 28, 2003 05:44 PM |
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reckless
An easy double build sux so understand the point on forted towns. The towns in the middle are hard to hold because both players can take them relatively easily. So i put forts to tempt a double build, but will be hard to do because of the easy accessibility. Panic is the same, the treasure zones in the middle of map have forted towns. It really doesnt change the gameplay much because too hard to hold, and panic allows a shortcut between necro towns. I use unforted necro as the 2nd town in a lot of templates to avoid early double builds.
extreme
The new XL extreme is pretty good, i'm wanting to make a good L update as well, which i havent done yet. super busy at the moment so dunno when it will be released, prolly the same time as Marathon.
marathon
The early results here look really good. Just gotta get some "fly time" to test playability.
solo
my attempt at a single player template sucked bad. AI player doesnt pick up free boxes out in the open after 4 weeks. This one goes in the rubbish bin.
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zilonite
Famous Hero
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posted March 05, 2003 12:25 AM |
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3 things about randoms
Hello!
As there are no movement in random template discussion for a while, I can try to make my input.
Three things:
1.Almost accidentally I came upon one very interesting Powerpoint presentation. This presetation was made by one NWC dude a couple of years ago. Of course, most of the things that are in this presentation are known. Yet there are some interesting technical details, which I as a non-expert cannot fully understand. Also this presentation could serve as an introduction to those, who were new to all this template business as I was a couple of weeks ago.
The site address is:
http://www.gdconf.com/archives/2000/smedstad.ppt
2.I also spent about a week on creating the template I would like to play best by myself. The results of this work are two templates “Double” and “Balance”. Till now I played them only by myself. I think, now they are ready to be presented in a wider circle. Yet they certainly can be improved, and here I sincerely hope that some of the “template masters” (midnight, haile and all those people who helped them to test their templates) can help me. If there are any volunteers, pls, let me know and I will email u templates for play-testing or for simple opinion making.
3.In one thread midnight proposed a thought that, if anyone has an idea about new templates, but is too lazy to make them he can tell his thoughts in this forum. I have an idea for template, but I’m not sure, will anybody be interested in playing such a template.
The background of an idea – in comparison to some of ToH veterans, I’m still a newbie on randoms. Yet my experience shows that almost 90% games on random maps are rampart v. rampart, castle v. rampart or castle v. castle. So may be it is worth to make a special template (called “Sharpshooters” or something like it), where there are only Rampart and Castle towns. All towns should have fort (otherwise Castle will be in a huge advantage). Monsters on this template should be really deadly, so as everyone could have an opportunity to show, how much elves and marksmen really can take
Would anybody like to play such a template (if yes, I’m ready to make it)? Or may be there is somebody who likes the idea and who is interested in making such a template (then I’m ready to help with an ideas in details)?
My recent experience shows, that English for me is still a foreign language, so don’t take my grammar mistakes by heart
Zilonite
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midnight
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted March 05, 2003 01:45 AM |
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Zilonite,
Good to see that there are some other ppl making templates. I had a look at that presentation. It is very detailed with algorithms for how the generator works. From the presentation u would think the generator never made mistakes
send me ya templates on wildandfunky@yahoo.com and i'll look at them this weekend. I wont have time to play them, still testing my own, but i can read the template design and suggest hints.
Your idea of making all towns of same type for each player, can be done on existing templates. Work out which zones r for which player, then only put an "x" for the towns u want in those zones. U can see in most custom templates where necro town is banned, well just ban all the other ones u dont want too. U can do that for 3do template too if u like, tho harder to identify who "owns" a zone.
Midnight
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Hexa
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted March 05, 2003 12:06 PM |
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The idea of that Sharpshooters template really appeals to me. I would surley like to play it.
Keep it up peeps and get more fixed players into the random scene!@ 
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If you want to realize your dreams >>> you have to wake up!@
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Kuma
Promising
Supreme Hero
u can type so much text in her
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posted March 05, 2003 12:53 PM |
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FIXED players, Hexa?
U mean that guy on Zone named TheCastrated?
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zilonite
Famous Hero
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posted March 06, 2003 09:41 PM |
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One important problem solved and one question rised
First, good news
Imagine, u and your opponent play whole game equally and u even have a slight advantage. U both approach to good thingies area that are guarded from both sides by lots of Tough Dudes (certainly unbeatable for a present moment). Or at least is supposed to be heavily guarded from both sides… In reality the entrance from your opponent’s side turns out to be passable without a fight and u just can watch how he picks up Pan Boxes and beats topes without any serious problems.
Does not sound like a good game and fun, yeah?
This painful problem could ruin almost every good template, because it makes risky placement of any large treasury. Reason - treasury-guarding monsters are weaklings (all-spells pandora will usually have guardians like pack of lvl 7). Only way how to protect worthy things is to set tough guardian on the entrance to zone. But there is this nasty possibility, described above, that zone guardian will not work.
So, what is the solution?
There is a little column in rmg file, called “Border Guards”. In almost none template it was activated. When I put an “x” in this column bad connections disappeared and Tough Dudes were always ready to do their dirty job
Now the question:
How the hell mine&town density works? Is it possible to determine in the same template and in the same zone during small map game there is one mine, but during XL map – five mines? I couldn’t figure it out. Anybody can?
Zilonite
P.S. Is there any prize for long, long thread posting?
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midnight
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted March 07, 2003 02:00 AM |
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Quote:
So, what is the solution?
There is a little column in rmg file, called “Border Guards”. In almost none template it was activated. When I put an “x” in this column bad connections disappeared and Tough Dudes were always ready to do their dirty job
Now the question:
How the hell mine&town density works? Is it possible to determine in the same template and in the same zone during small map game there is one mine, but during XL map – five mines? I couldn’t figure it out. Anybody can?
Misplaced border guards is prolly the biggest problem with randoms that is unsolved.
Now for the border guard option... Border guards (like used in HG3) require a tent to break them, and the placement for the tents on random maps seems to be random so potentially ppl can be trapped behind them. I also noticed that u can only have about 4 guards using them, if u have 1 treasure area with 1 access point, border guards might work, but my maps dont work that way except for blockbuster. I'd be interested if u have found a way to make them work that gives equal access to the coloured tents u need to get past the border guards.
Now to answer question...
There are 2 ways of defining the # of towns and mines. Firstly a fixed number, the minimum. Secondly a variable number, the density. If u specify the minimum and leave density blank, u will get the same # in a zone no matter how big the zone is. If u specify density, the # increases (ie. density remains the same) the larger the zone is. On most 3do maps, the density is used. I prefer to use fixed numbers so i can tune the map to particular sizes of map eg. L, and make a separate template for an XL.
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zilonite
Famous Hero
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posted March 07, 2003 02:03 PM |
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no more trespassing
At first, thx for explaining mine density thing.
Now for the border guard option... Border guards (like used in HG3) require a tent to break them, and the placement for the tents on random maps seems to be random so potentially ppl can be trapped behind them. I also noticed that u can only have about 4 guards using them, if u have 1 treasure area with 1 access point, border guards might work, but my maps dont work that way except for blockbuster. I'd be interested if u have found a way to make them work that gives equal access to the coloured tents u need to get past the border guards.
It looks that I didn't explain my discovery well. If this Border Guard option in rmg file would work by placing key tents and respective border guards, this indeed would not be a solution for all templates. But the big thing is that this rmg Border Guard option doesn’t work in this way! Instead of placing key tents, map generator simply narrows the pass from one zone to another and thus prevents accidental “trespassing”!
Yet bad news are that this also doesn’t work in 100% of cases – very seldom “trespassing” is possible. But still, in comparison with no-border guard connections, it happens really rare and in most cases Tough Dudes are on their place
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Kuma
Promising
Supreme Hero
u can type so much text in her
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posted March 07, 2003 02:42 PM |
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ehhmmmm so can't u place a garrison (like in the campaigns) between the borders?
Or is that what u mean already?
Kuma no wizkid but trying to help still
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zilonite
Famous Hero
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posted March 07, 2003 03:19 PM |
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Quote:
ehhmmmm so can't u place a garrison (like in the campaigns) between the borders?
Or is that what u mean already?
Kuma no wizkid but trying to help still
what i'm trying to say is, that "Border Guard" option in rmg file does not create Border Guards and respective key tents on map. All what this option does - it prevents getting around the monster, if u are supposed to fight it.
Damn, the thing is so simple, yet i can't explain it
Or I did it this time?
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Kuma
Promising
Supreme Hero
u can type so much text in her
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posted March 07, 2003 03:32 PM |
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I mean a neutral colored garrison, wif just monsters in it.
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zilonite
Famous Hero
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posted March 07, 2003 03:48 PM |
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Quote:
I mean a neutral colored garrison, wif just monsters in it.
As far as i know, it is impossible to create garrisons on random maps. However, may other ppl know how do it.
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midnight
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted March 08, 2003 02:36 AM |
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garrisons
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Cant make em
border guards
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is wierd, if i make a map in editor, it gives me border guards with tents on zone guards, but if i make map in game rather than editor, it doesnt do them, just puts creatures instead. I presume 3do realised the border guards were crappy and got rid of them from the game some time after my AB map editor was made. My guess is that that Border Guard column now has no effect at all. If it has some sort of affect on zone guards, it would be good to do a test, eg. run a small map with some guards 30x, then do the same with border guard "x". See if a significant difference in zone guarding.
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zilonite
Famous Hero
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posted March 08, 2003 03:08 PM |
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border guards continued
In my case I didn't get key tents even in map editor (however, I have SoD map editor).
As for testing of impact of border guard column in rmg file on zone guarding monsters - it works, at least as far as I tried.
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bjorn190
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
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posted March 08, 2003 03:46 PM |
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Midnight is right about the border guards.
YES, they narrow the pass and put the gards right
BUT, in maybe 25% of the case, they will use tents and border guards instead of creatures, resulting in a broken template. I made one like that once.
So, border guard x is not a solution to the problem.
Actually, the best solution is either
1. making a rule "you have to kill the zone guards before entering zone" or,
2. to make an open map, or,
3.to make several small zones with guards so that its far less likely that they all are broken.
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midnight
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted March 08, 2003 08:18 PM |
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i made a simple template with 2 zones with a town each and 1 connection to test the border guard theory using generator from within game. I also tested my theory that other treasures on map often get in the way of guards and cause them to be misplaced.
On a low density of items, the guards were in the correct place for border guard setting and without.
On higher density (30) of treasures about 10% of maps had bugs including mountain blocks (no road), with or without border guards. I did 20 maps of each. Hard to generalise the figures from such a small sample, but roughly equal # of problems.
On massive density of items (100) where hardly any free space, the guard errors went up to about 20% with or without border guards.
Conclusion
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Seems to me that the generator has difficulty when a treasure is nearby where the guard should be. The generator then offsets the guard, allowing the player to bypass it. The higher the density of items, the more chance that one will be near the zone guard affecting it. This is not the only cause of misplaced guards, but is at least 1 cause of it.
With the small sample size, hard to be specific on the border guard setting, but doesnt seem to have much affect. A small percentage of the time (appeared once) the border guards appear with tents. This made the map unplayable. Maybe another test will show a different result, but the risk of border guards/tents appearing is enough to avoid using the border guard column in rmg file imo
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