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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: Difficulty Level in Campaigns?
Thread: Difficulty Level in Campaigns? [ This thread is 2 pages long: (1) 2 ]
Delfontes
Delfontes


Known Hero
Sorcerer Extraordinaire
posted September 29, 2003 05:01 PM

Difficulty Level in Campaigns?

I just have the first release of the game, but you can only select difficulty on the first map in the campaign.  From then on the entire campaign is played at that difficulty level.

This is causing many problems for me....


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Delfontes
Delfontes


Known Hero
Sorcerer Extraordinaire
posted September 29, 2003 05:07 PM

re

Sorry for the double post, that was my first post and I didn't want to write too much if it wasn't going to work .


Anyhow, the problem is, like in Heroes 3, by the 2nd or 3rd map your Hero is Extremely powerful if you do it right.

So on SoD for H3 I'd increase the difficulty on the later maps sometimes.

On Heroes 4 you simply can't start any of the Campaigns at expert or impossible because they become literally that.  If you start with a level 1 hero and on impossible it makes you fight hundreds or creatures, you'll never be able to even get to the first castle.

Then on map two, your hero has the skills to take on stacks of stuff, and it becomes a bit too easy.  By map three you don't need an army, your hero can take on 12 black dragons or 50-100 of any other type of level 4 creature etc. hehe

So how do you get by this?


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Djive
Djive


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
posted September 29, 2003 05:53 PM

Quote:
On Heroes 4 you simply can't start any of the Campaigns at expert or impossible because they become literally that.  If you start with a level 1 hero and on impossible it makes you fight hundreds or creatures, you'll never be able to even get to the first castle.



Hmmm... As you say it's not possible to change the difficulty.

It is possible to beat the first scenario in each Campaign on Champion difficulty. I've done it myself.

I even had a NO RELOAD option when playing each individual scenario. This option I eased up only on the Might campaign until I've acquired the Cart of Ore. (And in some campaings due to the game not realizing that I had already won, but wouldn't finish the game. In which case I'd sometimes restore from a save and complete the game again from it.)

In order of difficulty on Champion I'd say the campaings are like this:
Might (hardest)
Chaos
Order
Death
Nature
Life (easiest)

How? The key is patience. Sometimes all you can do is to wait to get more troops.

Even so some of the stacks imply very high risks. The Emilia Campaign had an army with 60 Devils (and some Zombies) when I came to them.

Myself I had some 70 T-birds, 180 Ogre Magi, 3 level 15 heroes, and about 70 Genies in two stacks. (Lost many of them in a previous fight against a large horde of undead.)

Since Spells are restricted to level 3 spells plus the Berserk spell this battle was more difficult than it would seem. (Since I'd been dumb enough to only develope one Mage, and because those devils have Life Ward.)
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Delfontes
Delfontes


Known Hero
Sorcerer Extraordinaire
posted September 29, 2003 06:06 PM
Edited By: Delfontes on 29 Sep 2003

Don't the creature stacks continue to grow in the weeks you need to wait for your army to grow enough to fight?  If you don't have a few castles I'd think they'd grow faster than you do.

I'm playing the Order one at one below champion (I tried the might on champion and couldn't do anything at all, so I tried order one step below).

The fight against the 60 devils they kept teleporting straight to her, and no matter how many immortality potions I used, I couldn't get her to live longer than 2-3 rounds.  After 3-4 tries I just left her out of the fight, and though decimated, my army prevailed.  So I do concede that I may have been able to do it at champion.

I guess I'll try again, using your list the easiest one first... after I finish order at expert.

Edit:  I forgot to mention, I'm on the last map on Order.  Does it matter if your "ally" dies off?  He did fairly early, and I haven't been reading everything.  I'm hoping I can still find the guy I'm supposed to kill.

Thanks!
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Djive
Djive


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
posted September 29, 2003 07:37 PM

Quote:
Don't the creature stacks continue to grow in the weeks you need to wait for your army to grow enough to fight?  If you don't have a few castles I'd think they'd grow faster than you do.


With 3 Might Castles + Bredding Pits + Good Nobility Bonuses, I got about 15 T-birds per week and about 30 Ogre Magi. So at this point my army is growing much faster than the neutral stack.

The Combat went about this. Used Tight formation with Emilia in middle. That way she can't be attacked in round one by Devils.

Emilia Berserked one Devil stack. (Took away about five Devils on each stack.)
Genies Song of Peace failed on the Devils. (After this, I used other Genie spells as I couldn't afford further resist of spells.)
Other Devil stack attacked the Genie stack in the back, these genie lost about half their number. (Frustratingly I found I couldn't attack this Devil stack with my T-birds or my Ogre magi, as both stacks were too large.)
T-birds took out closest Zombie stack.
The other stacks moved and I tried to regroup to be able to hit the Devils with Ogre Magi but I failed here.

Round two: Emilia Berserked the Devils on the other side, they took out the second Zombie stack.
The Devils hit Emilia (I had a dozen imm potion in my pack.)
I couldn't allow two large Devil stacks at this point )since computer has a knack of finding an opening to attack even if player thinks there is NO WAY.) So my T-birds attacked the other Devil stack. Those Devils were more or less wiped out by the attack. (I think I made an illusion stack of T-birds to take away the Devils retaliation. This stack was taken out by the Devils, though I may have forgotten that and used Ice Bolt instead.)
The regrouping on my end failed yet again. I used one of the Heroes to attack the devils, and attacked from the far edge of what I could reach, but even so there was no space for the Ogre Magi between the two Heroes, both of which now had no Immortality potion applied.

Round three: Luckily no morale on the devils. Emilia took an immortality potion. Was hit out cold Devils again. This time however, the now bloodlusted Ogre Magi smacked into the Devil stack. (T-birds finished off the other Devil stack.)

Round four: Emilia took another immortality potion but by now there was not enough devils to take her out in one strike. All that remained was to mop up the remaining devils.

No, it doesn't matter if your ally is killed in last map. That's the normal thing to happen.
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Delfontes
Delfontes


Known Hero
Sorcerer Extraordinaire
posted September 29, 2003 08:00 PM

Interesting .

Maybe next time I'll try that, so you went through 3 potions?  I do think my way worked better, by then she was maxxed on exp, so that didn't matter.  Not having to worry about keeping her alive I ended up with 16 T-birds left (out of 80 something, and 16 titans, out of 23).  I didn't have berserk anyhow, if I'm not mistaken I might have had blind.  

By that time in that game you have 3-4 castles churning out T-birds, so that was no problem at all.  You grow a whole lot faster than that devil stack, hehe.  Honestly I did have to wait about a two weeks to regrow my army to take on the Hydra's guarding his castle, he had another 80 or so.



What I meant about sitting around and waiting and them growing faster was on the might campaign.  I didn't think you could ever get to your first city without a battle... maybe I missed something, I'll go back later.


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Djive
Djive


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
posted September 30, 2003 03:11 PM

The Might Campaign is not all that suitable for waiting since none of your towns produce level 3s, and the 4th Castle where the enemy player is does. The level 3s you get, you get as quest awards when taking the second and third towns.

If you need to regrow your level 1 and level 2, then you might wait to better the odds, but the enemy has two harpy dwellings near so outgrowing is not done in the same way.

The problem with the Might Campaign is that the Pirate + Bandit stack on Beach and the Stack by the Cart of Ore grows over time. And all you can get to fight them is troops from 2 Cenatur Dwellings and 2 Berserker Dwellings.

80 Hydras?? The last enemy in Emilia 1 had something like 10 Blackies total when I came to meet him. A pushover after having dealt with the Devils. Which month/week/day were you in?
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Delfontes
Delfontes


Known Hero
Sorcerer Extraordinaire
posted September 30, 2003 08:46 PM

I don't remember what day/month it was, I had gone fairly slow.

Anyhow, I won at expert, not champion eventually.

Now I'm playing life on Champion.  The first time through I messed up a bit... and on the second map there were 40 nightmares, 50 djinn, and more importantly 130 medusas.

I simply couldn't handle them with 4 heroes and no army.

So I had to restart completely, and still couldn't get my heroes past level 15, when 18 is the max on the first map.

Everything on the entire map was dead, hehehe.  It didn't matter though, I had made the heroes better the second time, and was able to beat them.  Now I just beat map 4 or so... but my heroes still are falling way behind. They are level 24 when they were allowed to get to 33.

How do you get more exp per map?  Or do your heroes fall behind as well?

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Delfontes
Delfontes


Known Hero
Sorcerer Extraordinaire
posted October 01, 2003 12:03 AM

Ok, finished Life on Champion .  Interesting, heroes were still level 27 or so.

Lysander I had maxxed all combat skills, and most scouting/life magic.  Needless to say, the end guy was a joke.
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Djive
Djive


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
posted October 01, 2003 01:13 AM

How to get most XP.

Never fight any Combats without having at least one Hero who can gain XP in your group.

Visit Tree of Knowledge as late as possible. (They give more XP that way.)

Take XP from Chests.

Don't start giving new Heroes XP unless you really need them.

In the Life Campaign there is an imprisoned Hero in the "Visit Dessette" scenario who won't carry over. Don't give this Hero XP. (But Hero works nice for guarding one of your key towns.)

I think I ended up a few levels below max myself in Life Campaign. Not as many as you though.
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Delfontes
Delfontes


Known Hero
Sorcerer Extraordinaire
posted October 01, 2003 11:16 AM

A level 25 general with few skills... she lasted about 1 turn with my main group , hehehe.  

Thanks again, incidentially I ended up with 3800 PTS. for the campaign.  That might tell you how long it took me etc.  When I get home I can check, it might have been 3900, but definately under 4000.
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Djive
Djive


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
posted October 01, 2003 01:05 PM

Quote:
A level 25 general with few skills... she lasted about 1 turn with my main group , hehehe.


There's plenty of tuition on the Map. Developing the general and pay to get up magic skills is a viable option, but for the fact that the hero cannot over.

On the score. This campaign is 7-8 scenarios so the campaign score wouldn't be telling me much. Perhaps the level you are playing on, and possibly that you have RELOADed late in the games.

(RELOADing late game can make you lose perhaps 10-20% of your score, as compared to not RELOADing at all during a scenario.)


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Delfontes
Delfontes


Known Hero
Sorcerer Extraordinaire
posted October 01, 2003 01:54 PM

Doh, I wasn't aware reloading mattered for the score.

I'm not too worried about it though, I just want to get through a couple more Campaigns on Champion... then maybe I'll buy an expansion.  

They didn't seem to offer much in the way of new features, so I have been reluctant to part with $30 for a few campaigns.
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Djive
Djive


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
posted October 01, 2003 02:26 PM

Reloading resets the scroe for solved Quests and for won Battles.

As for TGS vs. WOW there are other threads about it on the forum discussing this, so continue that discussion in one of them.
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Delfontes
Delfontes


Known Hero
Sorcerer Extraordinaire
posted October 06, 2003 05:45 PM

Ahh, I beat Nature now... man getting started is TOUGH on  Champion.

Taking the first town is what was killing me, literally.  Oh well... so 2 down now, but the rest are much harder.

I tried Chaos, and tried again, so far I can't find a way to get enough forces together to kill the 18 Mino's in the first city.

It is a great challenge though .

Last time I got stealth up on one of the start heroes enough for him to explore a bit... and get some mines etc. without fighting.  I think that might be the way to go, maybe I can sneak by and take an unoccupied enemy castle or something.  Holding them is much easier than taking them.

If that doesn't work, I'll still attempt to get stealth up, if only so that I can sneak by to recruit more creatures.  The problem naturally, is that once recruited the enemies see you, hehehe.

Anyhow, just posting an update, I will not likely be back before I've made some progress.
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Delfontes
Delfontes


Known Hero
Sorcerer Extraordinaire
posted October 06, 2003 09:50 PM

Woot!

I finally got that city... week 4 day 2, month 2.

Pete Girly really did all the legwork, I had him sneaking from day 2, when he got the sulpher mine.  One level from the chest, the other from the learning stone.  I had to get in the boat to land on the other side of the chest.  He also stole the captains hat, both without a fight.

After that it was a matter of sneaking to gain levels, once he could sneak level two I got the gold mine, and owned a few more dwellings.  This time it was 18 Medusa's instead of Mino's.

Anyhow, got the town.  It took way way longer than expected, and may prove my downfall.  

Guess I'm stuck getting Pete up to kick some butt... dangerous, I think I remember having to fight him before this campaign runs it's course.

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Djive
Djive


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
posted October 07, 2003 12:14 PM

My favorite strategy on Chaos 1 is to take the Might Town (a little further East) and don't bother about the Chaos Town until later. The AI player in that town is easier to tackle if you're quick enough. (Avoid fighting neutrals on the way to this town. They will deplete you of much needed troops.)

With say 10 or so Cyclopses under your command the Medusae/Minotaurs should not be a problem. You will level out both your Heroes easily anyway, so deferring this to later is a good idea.

For the last battles for the Preserve towns you can amass a lot more troops in Behemoths qand T-birds than you can get Chaos troops. And you wont have a problem levelling out a few barbarians  (for final fights) or Lords (to speed up creature production, mainly in the Might towns) to their maximum level to use in the closing combats.

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Delfontes
Delfontes


Known Hero
Sorcerer Extraordinaire
posted October 07, 2003 04:21 PM

Thanks!

I thought I had lost later last night...

The computer took the chaos town, and had 10 T-birds.  At this point I had no cities, and no army at all.

I had tried to take his town previously, but had not succeeded.

Anyhow, I bought potions of healing from the market where Pete was at that time, and had a few potions of immortality.

With those, I took the might town before he could come back.

With master pathfinding I was able to do circles, again with only Pete, no army at all.  I left the town with 3 cyclopse, 2 t-birds and the small stuff, because pete would have died trying to stay to defend...

After the third similar confrontation where he took a town Pete had recently freed (with the main Gal safe on a boat) I was able to finally take him out completely...

The comp built hydra's instead of dragons.. which did mildly upset me at first.  Now I am kinda glad, because Pete had to go against 2 small heroes and 1 hydra guarding the town to take the Chaos town back... twice.  A black dragon would have killed him easily, as scouting was his skill, not so much combat.

Now I am in the process of building an army, and clearing the map.  I have the 2 might cities, and my chaos one.  Both heroes are level 12, she is has better combat skills but also basic life/chaos/order... which I plan to increase next map.

There are 3 stacks of 70+ Cyclopse that I am worried about, not sure what I can do about them without tremendous losses.

Anyhow, I have 22 T-birds, 10 Hydra, and 20 Cyclopse... so I'm doing fairly well .  Next is to do as you suggest, and get a few more heroes to assist.

Month 4 or so now, wish me luck .

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Delfontes
Delfontes


Known Hero
Sorcerer Extraordinaire
posted October 10, 2003 02:21 PM

Wow, this is so fun .  I finally beat the first map.

The second map I was able to split the heroes up, and take two castles by day 2.

Anyhow, the map continued largely like that, I got GM stealth on Pete, so he was able to go to tents without doing the fights.  So I had taken out all three computers by month 2 week 2.  

Considering how many cities they had, and that one was on an island, I thought that was pretty fast.

So I find the whirlpool, go through it and here I am... Pete and the main girl, 1 hero from this map and 20 Black dragons.  (To keep fast I didn't have much of an army).

The Comp has 104 black dragons, 1500 rogues, 1500 pirates, and a large stack of one other creature I can't remember off the top of my head. No ranged creatures though.

Eeeek!

So I went back and hired everything, which gave me 40 Black Dragons, 250 efreeti, 400 minotaurs, 1050 orcs (the axe throwers) and the three heroes.

After losing 10% going through the whirlpool I tried the fight.  Ended up killing 30 BD's, and everything else, but 70 BD's were left when all was said and done.

This might be the end of me, I'll have to wait a few weeks, hire again, and try again. Keeping heroes alive even with unlimited potions of immortality is difficult with that many black dragons and high morality.

Any suggestions?  Is a sea captains hat somewhere on the map at least?

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Djive
Djive


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
posted October 10, 2003 05:00 PM

I checked a save I had from Month 4 Week 1 Day 7.

Swift then has 102 Blackies, 526 Evil Eyes (never seen him with any other creature), 933 Rogues, 1508 Pirates.

Seems you have neglected developing Scouting... Swift's army can be spied upon easily... All you need is a Hero with Expert Scouting or better. Can't believe you missed doing this!

I noticed Girly had the Dragon Scale armour. You should use this in the fight since it gives your troops and hero Fire Resistance.

Swift has +30 in Attack and Defence (I'd assume this is due to Expert Seamanship) so taking him down quickly is important.

I had recruitable troops worth about 40 Black Dragons at this point, 25 Hydra (two towns produced Hydra), about 200 Efreeti, nearly 300 each of Medusa and Minotaurs.

I'm about ready to set out for the eastern water-way at this point having cleared the rest of the map.

As in the first Map. It's not difficult to develope 2-3 more Heroes and max them out, making them expendable in the combat against Swift. (Though, you should keep them alive as long as possible, since they should have bonus artis on them.)

In fact you might want to NOT bring Tawni and Pete into the last fight, or only bring one of them.

40 Blackies is too little level 4s when going up against an army of over 100, you should have at least 60-70 before attacking, so you have the biggest stack (assuming the AI will split the Blackies in two stacks). Also bring Medusae, with any luck their Death stare will take out Swift. (Even a smaller stack of them is nearly guaranteed to take out a Hero who doesn't have 100% Magic Resistance.)

A Hero developed in Chaos Magic and with Fireball can do the same. Whatever, you do bring him out as quickly as you can.

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