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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: The Ugly part of it
Thread: The Ugly part of it This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
malkia
malkia


Promising
Famous Hero
posted March 30, 2002 08:00 PM

The Ugly part of it

Two games played and exited - cause i have to...

Here is stuff I generally don't like how it's done:

1. Switching between heroes/armys is slow - it stops the music - or music restarts
2. No hex grid in combat - No animation speed setup - i like fast animation - but not so fast as now it is - or maybe they've skipped lots of frames
3. In combat unit numbers are displayed just above the character and if you have 5 stack of sprites lined from top to down - you can't select well which one you want to attack/shoot.
4. No experience is shown at the end of combat
5. Double click on hero/army on the map does not go into hero/army status screen - you must go by selecting the hero/army from the the list on the right.
6. Unexpected slow downs during combat
7. ROADS on the map are not clearly visible
8. In combat your range where you can go is not displayed - as it was in Heroes3 combat...
9. Music seems... oh.. i dunno.. I think i'm going to switch back to old music - once I get to know how the resource files are made.

.....

soon to come and the good parts... but for now...
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Cat
Cat


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Gonna Get Dirrty...
posted March 30, 2002 08:11 PM

You missed:-

1) No resource silo (grrrr!!)
2) No capitol (double grrr!)
3) You need a maths degree and a calculator just to battle
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Lith-Maethor
Lith-Maethor


Honorable
Legendary Hero
paid in Coin and Cleavage
posted March 30, 2002 08:19 PM
Edited By: Lith-Maethor on 30 Mar 2002

agree with Cat... only

all the problems you guys say you have, never bothered me... no slowdowns, no music skips...


btw: Dongio... the graphics are great... the only case I can think of it could be better if 3D but for 2D graphics they did a great job

"raises Cup of Maranthea and proposes a toast"
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Dreams of Darkness nWoD IRC Chronicle, set in Edinburgh

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DonGio
DonGio


Promising
Famous Hero
of Clear Water Mountain Clan
posted March 30, 2002 09:29 PM

Hmm... when the thread title read "The ugly side of it", I thought you were referring to the graphics. This is the freaking ugliest game that has ever seen the light of day.

Otherwise I think it's great so far, but the graphics suck so incredibly hard!

But I agree on some of Malkia's points as well. But the experience thing is to make it more "realistic", I think. You know, noone sits in real life saying "I've got 30000 xp, and if I make 4 thousand more, I'll upgrade to the next level". What I'm trying to say is I think they're trying to give the experience a smoother edge, and that's allright with me. I don't think heroes should be all maths and calculations.

But the graphics, seriously, it sickens me, physically. It looks like my last ecstacy trip... It's so unbelivably ugly... oh, the agony... I'm playing with my eyes closed...
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malkia
malkia


Promising
Famous Hero
posted March 30, 2002 10:13 PM

finished just the tutorial - probably from the four maps i've tried this one looks best.

And now... No name to put in the high-scores? what is that? I like putting my name in hi-scores, and when some friend plays on my computer to compare...

Smoothing between the tiles is ridicilous - just linear smooth from one tile to another - no dust or randomness.

Music.. Music... Music... Have I to install 98 to play it well? I got AMD 900Mhz (and I've stopped Seti@Home for the sake of playing it normally) I'm runing in 1024x768 - got 256MB ram and 40GB hard-drive... WHAT MORE? It's slow - not always but there are like hangs for 1-2 seconds which make you think game crashed...

Only 31 maps? Only on XL map? What is that?

On some the buildings you can see that you've already visited them - but some others you don't.

Gameplay - Rangers simualtenosly counterstriking another rangers - now what is that bullsh1t? I thought they are going more reallistically (not that I wanted but...) - also generally simualtenously counterstriking with striking is not my fav.

You can't see well who is blocking you to shoot - you have to go to each one and see if you see a broken arrow there or not...

I've noticed following: My halflings were shooting at some orcs and my hero was just in the path between them - I've seen my hero taking damage! - I don't know from who - from my halflings or from orcs? the animation was too fast (set to 4) but slowing it - will slow down the other stuff. It should've been made as in AOW...

I still think that the more I play it the more i'll start liking it... First time I've played Heroes1 - i just love it, then Heroes2 I needed 2 hours to adjust, Heroes3 probably one day - here - heh - should be one week


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Grythandril
Grythandril


Famous Hero
who is a Chaotic Wizard
posted March 30, 2002 11:08 PM

cheer up wesley its not all bad.  

The game is better than heroes III in both music ,graphics, sound, animation and gameplay.

no game can ever be completely bug free.  errors will happen and they will hopefully be fixed with the new patch for the multiplayer.
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Might is Power
Magic is Power
Honor is Power

Power Rules Above All

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Cat
Cat


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Gonna Get Dirrty...
posted March 30, 2002 11:12 PM

Quote:
I've noticed following: My halflings were shooting at some orcs and my hero was just in the path between them - I've seen my hero taking damage! - I don't know from who - from my halflings or from orcs? the animation was too fast (set to 4) but slowing it - will slow down the other stuff. It should've been made as in AOW...



It's the orcs which are damaging your hero... if you summon white tigers they will invariably shoot those instead.

I find the fact that counter attacks often come before the initial strike bizzarre..
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Diwethaf Gloau Sylw y Gymreag

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malkia
malkia


Promising
Famous Hero
posted March 30, 2002 11:32 PM

Quote:
cheer up wesley its not all bad.  

The game is better than heroes III in both music ,graphics, sound, animation and gameplay.

no game can ever be completely bug free.  errors will happen and they will hopefully be fixed with the new patch for the multiplayer.


on the five poitnts you've mentioned there is not one that I agree.

I thought such things will not distract me - but it seems I'm the too touchy about those little things.

Animation is the worse, then comes gameplay, graphics, sound and music. Look at the horse animation when goes up and down some bridge - it's not well done... not at all... Also look in combat how the units die - move - those guys just skipped lots of frames in their animations. Nothing beats AOE horse dying when comes to animation - made only with few frames - but gracisously... not like this game... it's a shame

Gameplay - simualtenous counterstrike (now that can be okay).... simualtenous countrstrike for ranged units (now that's stupid)... Heroes seems no longer to affect with their attack/defense the creatures.... Movement points - yeah realisticall - i don't give a sh1t - they've killed one of the things i liked a lot... They've ended up with reallistcal things in fantasy world.. uuh yeaah...

Graphics.. Graphics... WHere are the good formations of road - the good tiles transition - the curvy, the moisty, the fuzzy, the randomness of beauty which was all round in Heroes3. Most of all - why isometric? - It's not working well... not good for editing maps - not good to play it. RTS are isometric - but then on typical RTS you don't have so many things and buildings... here you got plenty of stuff and putting that into isometric view - just blasts your mind with so much information that you can't bear... I can't concetrate in this game... clearly...

What about music repeating (first 3-4 seconds sometimes) and suddenly stopping without any fadein fadeout? That's not excuse!

Probably part of the skipping problems are with the fact that they've used SafeDisc2 - in a pc game i was working on - we got the same problem - in development it was fine - but later publisher put SafeDisc security and it was making problems with the CD... Later publisher release EXE file of the game without this SafeDisc and it was running okay... But it may be just the way they handle CD - streaming buffer is not big enough - they didn't tested it well on all CD's and so... (although the music is on the hard-drive???)

ah... welll... give me the pill named "I Like Heroes4"

I'll write soon the good side of the story though... Okay time to play it again At least for PC this is the best game that seems to be out since 1999
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Djive
Djive


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
posted March 31, 2002 10:28 AM

My comments are on the lines with "--"

Malkia:
1. Switching between heroes/armys is slow - it stops the music - or music restarts.

-- Yes. Switching between anything to anything else is slow. There seems to be a big in how the game handle files or filehandles. Basically, the longer you run the worse the game becomes. If you exit the game and start it again, it becomes much better for some time. (And some time is parobably a couple of hours.)

2. No hex grid in combat - No animation speed setup - i like fast animation - but not so fast as now it is - or maybe they've skipped lots of frames.

-- I don't mind the hex grid. You get used to it. The red spots marks what you're going to hit (breath attacks and so on.) This marking and the marking on how many turns to reach something is very much needed, in the absence of the hex-grid.

3. In combat unit numbers are displayed just above the character and if you have 5 stack of sprites lined from top to down - you can't select well which one you want to attack/shoot.

-- Not sure what you refer to here. Shooting is limited by line of sight rules. Also packing units together will limit what you can hit.

4. No experience is shown at the end of combat

-- Correct. This is bad.

5. Double click on hero/army on the map does not go into hero/army status screen - you must go by selecting the hero/army from the the list on the right.

-- I don't think I used this one anyway. So not noticed it.

6. Unexpected slow downs during combat

-- There are graphics settings to change. Experiment.

7. ROADS on the map are not clearly visible.

-- Meaning what? Th computer anyway optimezes the path between two spots... So why care about it?

8. In combat your range where you can go is not displayed - as it was in Heroes3 combat...

-- It is. A number marker on the position marks how many turns you need. You don't have the darkened grid for area, but why do you need that? It might have been worth it to clearly mark obstacles though...

I can add a number of similar things.

-- Town names are not printed in many of the key screens, for instance the Kingdom overview screen and the main screen. Instead you have to look for dots on the map. I don't like this. I can relate to topwn names, but unpersonal dots on a map is so errr... clinical. It removes the flavour of the towns.

Also the mini-pictures of the towns are way too similar. Asylum on lava is probably closer to Necropolis on lava than Asylum in Snow. Although I've suspected that they would for some time. It doesn't make it better though.

-- You can no longer recruit creatures directly from the Kingdom overview screen without leaving it.

-- The information presented in the Kingdom overview screen has decreased. Town name is missing. Number of creatures availabale of each type is missing. This used to be a useful screen, not so any longer.

-- Scrolls and parchment don't indicate which alignment and level the spell is of. (This is really bad...)

-- Currently I've found no way to sell all overabundant potions and artifacts, please add an option to fence items. Hero inventories become shock full very quickly.

-- Ships built in shipyards are very awkwardly placed. I've built three ships so far and two of them couldn't be reached by any means. Since it takes two days to ound the town, how about an option to access the town from within the Town. Is anybody else having any success with building boats???

-- Towns in the town bars are no longer placed according to longest town owned. Unknown (seemingly random principle used). This is bad.

-- I liked the Thieves Guild at first now I very much dislike it. The game has become very linear. Once you get the upper hand you're unlikely to loose it and the rest of the game is likely to become mere transport. The H2 & H3 setup with the Thieves Guild showing more and more information was much preferred. Kingdom army strength should NOT show up until late game. Especially since it's now presented as a bar.

-- The player AI on the adventure map leaves much to desire. I still find loose resource on the map after the enemy has conquered the territory weeks ago.

.....


Cat:
1) No resource silo (grrrr!!)

-- This has been replaced with additional maps on the mine which produces resources. These mines are needed since they dispel the FoW around them. If they weren't present too much of the map would have been dark-grey all the time.

-- You have an overabundance of resources. Playing tip: Sell resources you dont need the next few days to get cash to purchase creatures instead of resources. Look at the reource requirements for your dwellings and keep only that.

2) No capitol (double grrr!)

-- The thing I find trite here is that i've got scores and scores of resources but too little Gold early in the game. The additional mine compensates you for having less money in towns. You don't need the Capitol any longer.

-- Just don't built the citadel or castle. Early on you really need the money/resources for other things.

3) You need a maths degree and a calculator just to battle

-- Why? Take the Scouting skill, and the computer will tell you if you win. Damage inflicted is shown automatically, so just keep it up.

-- One good point is that summon spells show exactly how much will be summoned. Demonology seems vastly overpowered. One of hero currently summons an overabundance of Imps. 143 to be exact, but still only 21 Leprechauns. It's especially useful in the early game. With the demonology manual it is 211, wonder why it is not 286 but perhaps the double the amount of creatures is not correct on this itme description.

-- Spells now show damage directly on the screen, this is good.


Malkia 2
Gameplay - Rangers simualtenosly counterstriking another rangers - now what is that bullsh1t? I thought they are going more reallistically (not that I wanted but...) - also generally simualtenously counterstriking with striking is not my fav.

-- Creatures simply retaliates on the first attack they can retaliate on. Place a hand-to-hand unit adjacent to the archer, and it will no longer be able to retaliate at all on ranged attacks.

You can't see well who is blocking you to shoot - you have to go to each one and see if you see a broken arrow there or not...

-- This is a bit annoying but is something you get used to. It is then much more annoying that you can't really place your own troops so that a unit is shielded in a reliable way. Or not knowing if a guard's current place will shield the unit or if you have to move it to shield the unit.

I've noticed following: My halflings were shooting at some orcs and my hero was just in the path between them - I've seen my hero taking damage! - I don't know from who - from my halflings or from orcs? the animation was too fast (set to 4) but slowing it - will slow down the other stuff. It should've been made as in AOW...

-- They receive damage from the Orcs retaliation. The troop in between is assumed to duck for friendly fire and shield the shooter from hostile fire.

A few more things:
-- Right now I dislike the way you have to hoover over almost everything for 2-3 seconds before the information will appear, instead of just right-clicking on it as in Heroes 3. (Right clicking works in some places but for instance not when getting:
* Information about adventure object
* Artifacts (when you first obtain them)
* You can't right-click on a Town on the main adventure screen to obtain information on it. (Hoovering will display the name (only), but waiting becomes annoying.)

-- Also I dislike the way the computer selects the lead hero, according to level. Say for instance that I want to cast a Pathfinding spell, but the hero who has it is not the one who has the highest level in the group. This means that I have to select the army review screen, then select the proper hero, then select the spell-book, then find the spell and finally cast it. If the spell were on the "main hero" I'd just select the spell icon and then cast it.

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nernug
nernug


Adventuring Hero
posted March 31, 2002 11:24 AM

I agree that the lack of options and the slowed down game play (comparing to heroes 3) is bad for the game.

The first time I had a heroes game on my computer I uninstalled it after 3 sec of game play. Now I know better. After you get over the shock of everything being so different I think (hope) that you'll start liking it.

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celfious
celfious


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Typo recoverey
posted March 31, 2002 05:15 PM

Ner Nug: I experienced what most of us are right now.
I played HOMM2 with friend's, and hated 3, would never want to play 3. 2 only!
But I bought 3 one day unable to find 2.. Desiring a game for my new PC.

Anyway's..
Malikia, cat, Djive and everyone has made scarry point's. Make's me feel like wesley said. "I feel like I dont want to buy this."
I know I will, but my mind is already closed


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arachnid
arachnid


Promising
Famous Hero
posted March 31, 2002 07:04 PM

1)Im not seeing much balance in the game i mean i just completed a map with 8 vampires and they could not be killed. Vampires seem super strong, i think the games suffering only having 4 levels of creature. Theres seems way to big a jump between 2 and 3.

2)The combat map is far too small i think you can never sit back and shoot (was there not also meant to be hills and stuff in the battlefield and tactical stuff like that?) Creatures can in turn 1 fly across the map and kill your general causing you to lose the campaign.

3)Why the hell is multiplayer having to be added as a patch???????????? Id rather of waited a few days more and got at least a finished game.

4)The maps may be small but they take hours and hours most of the ones ive played are far too twisty pathed up and down so it takes ages getting anywhere.(not to meantion having to fight big battles to get to tents to go in to the next area, i think its pretty dull doing that just preparing for one big monster battle)

5)The campaigns themselves have total crap introductions just pages and pages of text, i mean why could they not of at least made it more like red alert starts at least there interesting.

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jondifool
jondifool


Promising
Adventuring Hero
extinct but alive!
posted March 31, 2002 09:04 PM
Edited By: RMS on 31 Mar 2002

Will Luck or Skill decide multi!!

At the moment something is worrying me, and that is how long replay value would the game have ?

The computer is incredebly stupid. And some combinatons of creatures and skill is simply to powerfull! Campaigns is maybe ok to play.
But on all other maps I have played the challenge comes from difficult level, and when the bad start is overcome, the computer AI isn't much of a problem!

So the games lasting charms most likely comes from multiplayer! And here is where I wonder if its going to be good strategy or luck there decide the games.

With every level creature way stronger than that one before! We end up with the level 4 being very Important!

Imagine preseve against asylum.
4th levels creature decide the battles. As the gab between creatures is way to big!

Black Dragons Vs fairys: Asylums wins huge!!!
(farie Ds have spells but cant damage the blacks with them)

Black Vs Phonix. : preserve should win big!!
(Phonix have 1/2 damage from fire, and blacks breath fire)

Hydra Vs Fairie Dragons: Preserve wins big
( a slow walker agains a flying spellcaster doing high damage!)

Hydra Vs Phoenix. : Maybe a advantages to Asylum
(hydras no retaliation could win it, but often it would not because Phoenix wait, hit and fly away, wait...).

This exsample is a case where the choice of wich 4 level creature actual would decide battles without heros involved!
This I fear is making room for to much luck and to little skill.

I know heroes are involved to ! But with all the powerfull spells, in the end the situation might be the same. Its luck if the hero get the battle deciding spell, countering that opponents setup, and unluck if he doesn't!

There is ofcause room for skill. But if to much of the game is scissors, rock or paper, is it then going to be good!!

Just worrying
Jondifool


Edited: deleted unnecessary spaces
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RMS
RMS


Responsible
Legendary Hero
-ing yummy foods
posted March 31, 2002 09:13 PM

...argh! Stop it! I don't care how bad it is. Besides Darkspirit and Wesley, am I the only guy the doesn't have the game yet...and not only that, but can't get it? I can't take it anymore!!
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Krutselno
Krutselno


Adventuring Hero
posted April 01, 2002 12:52 AM

I don't think anyone from Norway has it yet either...
at least I don't have it, even though
I pre-rodered the game more than a year ago... argh..
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Darion
Darion


Promising
Famous Hero
posted April 01, 2002 01:03 AM

I don't have it. No money and my parents won't allow me to However, I don't know if I am going to buy it after all... maybe I'll spend my money on buying SOD instead so I can play WOG...
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Krutselno
Krutselno


Adventuring Hero
posted April 01, 2002 01:15 AM

What?

You can't be serious...you are gonna buy SOD?
Because you want to play WOG??
WOG is really bad...it's not worth the money to buy SOD to play the boring WOG....it really isn't !!
WOG is the worst thing I have ever played...
(not allowed by parents...wow some of us are really young here...lol...sorry for that one)
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->>KrutSelno<<-

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RMS
RMS


Responsible
Legendary Hero
-ing yummy foods
posted April 01, 2002 01:18 AM

...it took me forever to convince my dad that I could get it...probably in the end it was because one of his favorite games until he got bored of it used to be HoMM3

...however, the stores around ehre don't have it yet, for some reason...so far, the only exact date I have is that one store will get it this friday...not sure about the others yet though...hope it's some time earlier though, because I don't want to waste my spring break doing nothing...
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Snogard
Snogard


Known Hero
customised
posted April 01, 2002 04:33 AM

I don't have it yet either.  And I don't expect to get it for at least about half a year (if it does come at all...).  Maybe I may get it when I go back to my country.  At the moment, I can only content myself by reading the threads.
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Darion
Darion


Promising
Famous Hero
posted April 01, 2002 06:40 AM

You can't be serious...you are gonna buy SOD?
Because you want to play WOG??
WOG is really bad...it's not worth the money to buy SOD to play the boring WOG....it really isn't !!
WOG is the worst thing I have ever played...
(not allowed by parents...wow some of us are really young here...lol...sorry for that one)

Actually, on the contrary, it is probably the worst thing you have ever played because it is made by individuals by itself. I am a modification fanatic, and I really dig this sort of stuff. Plus, the WOG team has some really innovative ideas without totally destroying the game (like Homm4 does for me I think)
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