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| Thread: New “miners” village - idea | |
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Svetac
Promising
Known Hero
Saintified Paladin
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posted December 21, 2001 03:21 PM |
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New “miners” village - idea
Well so far we have plenty of map locations, but they’re only that – map locations. But what about map location that is somewhere in the middle, between the towns and the map locations. Map location that lets’ you enter it, and develop it just as the actual towns.
How?
Well, since we’ll be able to build the mines in the game and and pay for their developement, why not having a map location that will be “miners village”? You simply conquer and enter the village as you do with the towns. And it appears on the town/village list.
And inside you have the build options as in the towns, with one difference. Here you can build mines. And those mines would act like the real mines. So the maximum in this kinda village will be all types of mines, meaning that fully built and developed this village will provide you with: 1000gold, 2 wood and ore, 1 crystal, gem, mercury, sulfur per day.
And as with the towns, there will be option in the map editor to lock certan mines and make them unavaliable for building – if the map maker wishes so.
The mines will deplet the resources just like all the other “regular” map mines.
Also, there could be few other buildings to be built – village hall (+250gp), marketplace. And maybe two 1st level buildings. Those two first levelers can be Dvarwes and Troglodites. Or totaly new creatures can be put in there.
There can be Tavern as well, that will let the player hire one totaly new, neutral and unique Hero class (Bard perhas?).
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--- Paladin of the Macedon ---
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Xenophanes
Promising
Famous Hero
Chief Consul to Queen Mutare
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posted December 21, 2001 08:05 PM |
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I like it. You should send it to NWC or 3DO as an expansion idea.
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<Dragons rule, Titans drool!>
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Slava14
Promising
Famous Hero
I am 16 now....
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posted December 21, 2001 08:07 PM |
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Quote:
There can be Tavern as well, that will let the player hire one totaly new, neutral and unique Hero class (Bard perhas?).
It's a town of miners, why don't hire there Miners. 
You saud that the mine-building will be just like in the town. Can you think of a suitable line-up. 
For some, not so understandable for me, reason I don't like the idea. Maybe it needs some changes. There should be a good defence on those Towns, because thay can be quite an advantage, and Dwarfs with Troglodytes can't possibly be that kind of defence, so there should be a Child Balrog instead.
I'm not making fun of the idea, so don't get me wrong.
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I'm always happy to help.. unless I'm helping myself.
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Xenophanes
Promising
Famous Hero
Chief Consul to Queen Mutare
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posted December 21, 2001 08:22 PM |
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Whoa!
These things shouldn't have creature generators!
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<Dragons rule, Titans drool!>
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niteshade
Known Hero
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posted December 21, 2001 11:09 PM |
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Wow this is the first interesting and original town idea I have seen in a wrong time. Though I would still think it might be better off as a map structure that you can flag instead of as a town. Granted it would be much cooler as a town, I'm just thinking that all those graphics and town programming might be a bit of a waste on something that really could be a map structure..
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Wesley
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
banned
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posted December 21, 2001 11:12 PM |
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This is not even A town idea...
It's more like a idea on the gameplay..
But it's cool tought
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niteshade
Known Hero
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posted December 22, 2001 12:24 AM |
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No it is a town idea, it's just not a starting town. It's more of a unique kind of town that you might pick up over the course of the game, kind of like the outpost. And to me that's far more interesting then the 100s of other town ideas that everyone spews out with more thought to how "cool" everything sounds then to how they would fit into gameplay.
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Svetac
Promising
Known Hero
Saintified Paladin
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posted December 22, 2001 05:52 AM |
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Edited By: Svetac on 21 Dec 2001
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Hey niteshade, that word "outpost" gives me an idea. Or better said two ideas:
1. Maybe these outposts can be neutral at the beggining of the game. And when you capture it, you're determining the allegiance of this outpost. If you start with Haven, it transforms in Haven outpost. If you started Asylum, it transforms into Asylum outpost.
Now that determines the creature dwellings you can build in your town. And as Slava points out, thus important outpost can't be defended with only 1st level creatures. Becase of that the limit should be 2nd level creatures available to be built in the outpost.
Now, since outposts are predetermined, maybe they should be able to build only certain types of mines. Example - Asyulm is able to build sulfur, ore, gold; Haven - crystal, wood, gold; Preserve - mercury, wood, gold; Academy - gems, ore, gold etc. But since those mine types are limited, they should have upgrade possibility. And the upgrade should cost more than the basic raising of the mine. So when upgraded those mines can give you 2 precious resources (merc, sulfer, gems, crystal) and 4 basic (wood, ore), while getting 2000 gp from the gold mine when ugraded. Of course that this mines can be depleted after some time.
2. The second idea, is forming nomadic tribes around these outposts. There can be Nomad miners, that settle in the mountains and mine resources. In this case, they should have unique hero class, and line up of 3 levels of creatures. They should be able to build village hall and citadel. No mage guild, but blacksmith should be there. And they should be able to build all the mine types. As for the line up, I don't know, I'll think of it tommorow. Maybe Incubus will have some ideas on the line up. Hey !!!! Got it. Maybe these nomads can use slaves to work for them! And in that case they will need units that are responsible to watch over the slaves, and punish them if they're lazy. Now what unit/creature should be the punisher? Well, I'll go for the Liontaur that Incubus suggested in his wish list.
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Well, maybe there's a place for both this ideas. Ones can be outposts. And the other evil nomadic miners villages. Sounds interesting to me
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--- Paladin of the Macedon ---
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Jenova
Famous Hero
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posted December 22, 2001 07:28 AM |
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Sounds a bit powerful.. Imagine owning one of these and then having every mine in one.. I dunno.
Then comes the question of logic.. Does it make sense to actually "build" a mine? You spend some gold and sulfur to produce.. a sulfur mine? Mines are supposed to gain resources for you.. it wouldn't make much sense to cost resources in order to build one.. Unless it only cost gold (for diggers and stuff) but it would be kind of unbalancing.. I dunno.. my explaination is a bit crap but it's like buying money with less money. I just hope someone knows what I meant.
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Wesley
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
banned
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posted December 22, 2001 11:38 AM |
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What????
Do you wan't creatures for this mines??????
What about Kobolds? Mountain Dwarves, Umber Hulks , Sand Wurms, Earth elementals,Lurkers,Mantrays.
And Incubus is still banned.. And he is changed into ME I'm old incubus.(for the case you didn't knew )
I think you better leave the liontaur out.. He's Diablo's propory. NWC would never accept that.. Also they don't accept succubus  too sexy for kids? Damn it!
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Svetac
Promising
Known Hero
Saintified Paladin
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posted December 22, 2001 04:46 PM |
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Edited By: Svetac on 22 Dec 2001
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To Incubus, er ... Wesley
Yes I knew it's you )) Othervise I would've said Wesley Only Incubus can have such knowledge when it comes to creatures And yes those creatures suggestions are great. Hmmm, how about Pit Lord in here, so he forces those workers, whit his whip, to dig.
To Jenova:
Maybe you don't know, but in HoMM4 we will build mines. Once you get the mine, it's not a mine like in previous heroes, but it's actually potential mine. In order to start production you must pay to build a mine. There was a screenshot where 4000gold and 10wood were asked from the player in order to establish sulfur mine. And the gold mine will ask 15000gold to be built. And I just built my idea around these facts.
Emphasising the idea furthermore. Two more "town types" of this town came onto my mind. Here they are.
**********Mage universities***********
It’s just similar to the miners village idea. These mage universities are in fact small towns that are independant from the original six . Mage universities are neutral towns that can be found troughout the land.
They are inhabited by four types of units/creatures - monks, mages, genies, gremlins, gnomes. Thus meaning that four creature generator dwellings are buildable.
The mage guild in this town is very expensive to be built and very unique. For every level the mage guild gives one spell from all of the five magic schools. And there are five libraries to be built, each one adding one speel per level from the school that belongs to.
But this town will give the real spice to the game with the two hero types unique only for this town. In the tavern plyer can hire two types of heroes that are specialized in mage skills. But why are they different from the other spellcasters. Because the first one start with Life magic and Death magic primary skills, and the second one start with Order magic and Chaos magic primary skills.
This building can be also unique for this “town type”.
Power channeler – increases the power of all your spell troughout the land by 10%
Spell Ward – Only defender can use spells in the battle
Of course that there’s a possibility to build City Hall and Citadel in this sttlement. But no blacksmith.
**********Harbor villages************
These are yet another type of settlements as the outposts and the mage universities. Inhabited by Pirates, Gnomes and some other creatures. These harbor villages have far less options than the previous ones.
Here player can build shipyard. What’s special about this harbour. Well, it acts like parking place You leave your ship here and nobody can take it (like the one location that will exist in HoMM4 and have this option).
But since this town has Gnomes, and they’re inventors, one more building for sea travel can be built here. The Submarine workshop.
Now this is connected with my idea of medieval submarine:
How does this machines work. First they cannot be spoted normaly on the map (somethind like expert invisibility can be applyed to them). Only heroes with master and GM scouting can spot them, creatures of 4th level can spot them, wethere if they’re aboard some ship, or near on the ground. And the final spotting method is with flagged watch towers.
So this way the submarines will be great for sneak attacks. But this way the game will lose some balance, right? Because everybody will run for submariens in water maps. So this can be balanced this way:
- the submarines should be expensive, and should demand precious resources
- the submarines cannot transport creatures of 4th level
Also in the Tavern of this town the player can hire unique hero type that starts with Scouting primary and basic Seamanship secondary skill.
Blacksmith, Village hall, Fort – are buildable.
No mage guild here.
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--- Paladin of the Macedon ---
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Jenova
Famous Hero
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posted December 23, 2001 03:00 AM |
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Really? Sorry for misunderstanding you then.. My apologies.
However, I hate that new idea in H4 where you have to "build" the mine. 15,000 gold looks expensive for a gold mine, what if you don't have that much at the beginning and never will?
Dwarves should have an ability to be dumped inside a mine to "work" there, and increase the efficiency of the mine by a percentage (35% or so).
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niteshade
Known Hero
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posted December 23, 2001 06:01 AM |
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Well it's all about making tough decisions. You may have to save up some gold to get that gold mine running but once you do, it will pay for itself in time. Things like this just increase the strategy of the game. Grabbing every silly little mine around your territory will no longer be a completely mindless decision. You will actualy have to think about it now.
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Xenophanes
Promising
Famous Hero
Chief Consul to Queen Mutare
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posted December 23, 2001 06:02 PM |
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The Dwarve thing sounds funny.
The Gold Mine thing, let's see - It would take two weeks and a day to pay for itself. I've noticed, though, that the cost of building a Sulfur mine is about equivalent to the cost of building a Sulfur Resource silo.
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<Dragons rule, Titans drool!>
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Jenova
Famous Hero
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posted December 24, 2001 02:35 AM |
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It would mean that early game resources will be tight since you'd be spending a lot on getting mines (which you'd normally take for free). I anticipate you'll dry out all your starting resources quick (unless you plan strategically, blah blah) especially since you can build multiple buildings in a day as well. You gotta find a balance on what to spend your gold on. Do you build the mines or do you get troops so you can clear the mines? H4 means a lot of changes, just hope this one makes it better.
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UnkaHaakon
Responsible
Famous Hero
happily tilting at windmills
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posted December 24, 2001 05:44 AM |
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With what we now know about the economy of Heroes 4 (cost to get mines going, some structure costs, etc) I can see why Jeff Blattner said (way back this summer) that you'd hardly ever completely build up a town. LOL
On the original topic of the thread, I can see this 'Mining Town' easily being created by a mapmaker (using the scripting system), but it might be nice (maybe in an expansion?) to have something like this as a map structure. Perhaps something like : you have to visit it once a week, but can obtain a fixed amount of the resource of your choice? That would make it a bit more balanced.
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Some people say the glass is half full..Some people say it's half empty... I say "What're you asking me to drink?"
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Svetac
Promising
Known Hero
Saintified Paladin
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posted December 24, 2001 07:26 PM |
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Hmmm, when I think about it again, you're right Unka Haakon. Something like this will be possible to be made with the existing structures. Just put those structures - mines, taverns, etc. lay walls around, design the area well and you have the miners village.
And making this into the expansion will take too much time. So they better use their time for other ideas.
Well at least I had idea
I hope the next one will be better
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--- Paladin of the Macedon ---
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Wyvern
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted December 25, 2001 06:00 PM |
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Why, your idea is good, although not so original - there is an option in Age of Wonders that is a bit similar to your suggestion. Anyway, almost every structure on the adventure map can be treated as a town. A good example - Dragon Utopia. Here you can build the creature dwellings for all the Dragons - but it should be for a big price. There may be a Mage Guild Level 1 and maybe a special, unique structure... I don't know what should be the hero of this town, though!
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Svetac
Promising
Known Hero
Saintified Paladin
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posted December 26, 2001 09:51 PM |
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Wyvern, yes it is a good idea, but it lack more imagination in order to make it useful.
As Unka Haakon pointed out, something like this can be done with the map editor.
And let's take the Builders Guild from AoW for an example (I think you're refereing to this one from AoW, BTW this wasn't my inspiration). It's something that is different from the towns, in some way.
So the idea of this kinda structure (that I proposed) is interesitng. But it needs some special buildings with interesting and original abilities in order to work.
But yes, if we consider the Harbour village, and the Mage village I proposed, it may work.
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--- Paladin of the Macedon ---
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Gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted December 29, 2001 07:24 PM |
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when i started to play, it took me some time to get used to mines working with invisible and thus invincible miners, just like there are invisible civilians in towns.
otherways i would like the idea that there are some ppl mining some resource and you could talk to their chief and make a deal with him, so that you pay him and he supplies you with his products. or maybe that could be an alternative to conquering.
but in the case of a miners town where you can build all mines, how is it that all those more or less rare and precious natural resources happened to be culped together within the rather small territory of a single town? or else how can you mine sth that isn't there?
maybe we should have a magic garden or sth where we can plant a tree of sulphur or a tree of mercury. and maybe it would give you 1 unit of that resource every week or sth like that and never run out. there should be some gardeners there, of course, so it could be sth village-like.
or an immobile artifact-like thing, you put sth into it and you can take this same thing out of the artifact afterwards. well, there have been artifacts like that in fairy-tales, but i doubt it would fit in the game.
the idea that resources accumulate in this village or map location or whatever until you visit it, seems nice. but that kind of micromanagement could become boring on the other hand.
bah, just wrote another useless post, couldn't help it, lol.
Moderator's note:This topic has been closed, as it refers to an older version of the game. To discuss Heroes 3, please go to Library Of Enlightenment, to discuss Heroes 4, please go to War Room Of Axeoth.
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