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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Disecting the Fortress...
Thread: Disecting the Fortress... This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
Oldtimer
Oldtimer


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Please leave a message after..
posted October 12, 2001 12:13 AM
Edited By: Hexa on 3 Jul 2002

Disecting the Fortress...

We have heard about strategies to use certain towns, these threads are for you opinions on the town, it buildings, creatures, and specials.

The Fortress is built aroud defence(Duh)and is hard to take if properly used.  Creatures are generally average either being very fast and vulnerable to attack or slow and powerful, but beatable.

No special buildings jump out and say "this is cool" and the magic school is substandard, you would think that a magic damper to exclude the use of 4th and 5th level spells should be added.

Edit: revived!@


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attila
attila


Known Hero
Young Warrior
posted October 12, 2001 12:22 AM

Well i think Fortress is a very good town.  I love the Cows and hydras.  There resonably cheap also.  But u dont need mage 5 because most maps give a 2nd town thats the town you build your mages in.
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StormWarning
StormWarning


Promising
Famous Hero
Archmage of Thunder
posted October 12, 2001 01:48 AM

Creatures:
1) Gnoll. Decent, but not on the level of Centaurs or Pikemen.
2) Lizardman. A respectable shooter since SoD's update.
3) Dragonfly. Dispel your opponent's spells, cast Weakness, and generally buzz around being an annoyance. What fun!
4) Basilisk. A solid 4th level, plus the ability to petrify comes in handy occasionally.
5) Mighty Gorgon. Against low levels, this guy's good. Against high levels, he's insane - 3 can usually beat an Angel.
6) Wyvern. Like in Dungeon, a good 5 is followed by a terrible 6. Unlike in Dungeon, the terrible 6 has no redeeming special ability (poison is a joke of a special).
7) Hydra. Slow, but if he gets into battle he can really wreak havoc.

Special buildings:
Cage of Warlords: Nice.
Blood Obelisk/Glyph: Not so nice.

Heroes:
Tazar. There is no other. When you can take only 70% damage by level 20 (not to mention an insane Defense skill), you know it's worth it.
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Kruel
Kruel


Adventuring Hero
Gropabo
posted October 12, 2001 02:05 AM

fortress is cool

because its strategies are quite different from the other towns, and if your opponent is not experienced enough and plays like he would play another town, you're just gonna kick his ***.
The best thing with this town, it's CHEAP. like stronghold, in expert level on a low ressource map, you can afford choosing a creature option (like gorgons+castle) rather than an economy option.
Only thing you need is wood, which makes this castle great when there's some sea on the map, and which is easily handable with the market on the other maps, considering the average low cost in every other ressource.

Gorgons and hydras are great. Especialy against AI hydras do some amazing things.

Flys and basiliks are good. Flys make perfect scouts, block shooters while walkers are coming, have interesting specials, and get a higher production than usual level 3. basiliks are tough and have a great special.

other creatures are either ok (gnoll & lizard) or bad (wyvern).

As a hero, 3 of them are interesting, tazaar of course if the map may let him grow up in levels, bron if playing against a solmyr/deemer/aislinn, alkin in other cases (coming with offense and resistance, spe gorgons, what more needed ? ).

Kruel

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Wyvern
Wyvern


Promising
Famous Hero
posted October 12, 2001 09:29 AM

Well, well... What about my favourite town?
Creatures:
Gnoll Marauder - hmm... in my battles it doesn't participate often - the other units fight with the enemy. But if the battle is long, the Gnoll can help me...
Lizard Warrior - I'm not happy to say it but my Lizards don't make so much damage that I want... But they also help a lot.
Dragon Fly - maybe some people attack immediately with them, but I wait. When the enemy comes, I attack him and after that it's the Dragon Fly's turn again...
Greater Basilisk - a great unit, especially when petrifies a strong enemy. And under my control it's even stronger because I play with Bron.
Mighty Gorgon - the Heavy Cavalry, as well as the Basilisk. It's not so bad to kill only one Archangel by attack and three additional by death gaze...
WYVERN MONARCH - the greatest unit in the game. I use it the same way as the Dragon Fly, but rely on the Wyvern more...
Chaos Hydra - of course I wait with it. Very often there are two enemy creatures near each other...
In Shadow of Death the Fortress units have bigger stats. Thank you, NWC! Before that you really underestimated the potential of Fortress.
I don't cry because there are only three levels of the Mage Guild. Since the second and third level are the last thing that I build in the town, it really doesn't matter. But probably other people buy these levels earlier... It's your choice! But the Lightning Bolt and Blind are more than enough for me.
Yes, this is a defensive town. That's great - the units can be killed harder.
And don't forget that the Fortress has a Shipyard which can be useful sometimes...
As I said, I play with Bron. I haven't played with Tazar and I don't want to.
That's it. Fortress is the greatest town. I don't say the strongest but the greatest.

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Djive
Djive


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
posted October 13, 2001 12:14 PM

Hrmmm... I wonder if it's possible for you to change the thread name, by altering the post subject on your first post? (Then again this may not be possible...)

It sounds like Fortress is dead and you're examining the remains.

If I had beaten you to the point like the Rampart-people did I certainly would.

The other towns may have similar ideas so here's a quickly assembled thread titles.

Castle: Land of Angels.
Dungeon: Mystery of the Deep
Fortress: Mood of the Mire
Inferno: Welcome to Hell / It's Hot, isn't it?
Necropolis: Life beyond Death
Stronghold: Heart of a Barbarian
Tower: Land of snow / Wintery Landscape
Conflux: Gathering of Elementals.

Others: perhaps you have a better title for the Fortress?

The mood of the mire is one of poisonous and danger, which is reflected in the bestiary. The basilisk can petrify, the might gorgon's death stare and the wyvern's poison. According to legend the hydrae were also posionous. And the carnivorous plant is cool, and adds to the atmosphere.

The feeling of the swamp is that of slowly sucking the life out of the ones who dare trespass there, which is seen as a huge movement penalty for creatures not native to the terrain. The terrain is perhaps the best defence for the Fortress.

Fortress troops are durable, they don't do much damage but then on the other hand they don't go down easily either, the two flyers are fairly weak for the levels but they're quick and are ideal for engaging shooters (for wadering monsters) in close combat already in the first round. The troops are cheap and most of their dwellings are easily built.

The town offers a ruch tactics with Wyverns, especially if there are several dragon fly hives nearby. With some luck by week two you can have a big amount of Wyverns.

The town is very much dependent on wood, and it would have been good if the resource silo actually produced 2 wood per day instead of 1 ore and 1 wood.

Considering that Fortress has one of the Heroes most focussed on Magic (the witch) it should also have a level 5 Mage Guild. Only Warlocks and Wizards have a bigger focus on magic. The level of the Mage Guild should be tied to the foucs of the Magíc hero type in the castle. So there they've made a mistake IMO. It should be something like:
Level 5: Tower, Fortress, Dungeon
Level 4: Necropolis, Rampart, Castle
Level 3: Inferno, Stronghold
(Not sure where Conflux would be but I assume it's also a level 5.)

Myself I usually prefer Witches to Beastmasters, though I usually develope both types. Tazar and Andra are good heroes. Voy is good on maps with water. Overall, the Beastmasters are offered better skills, Eagle Eye being the most commonly offered skill for Witches.

Gerwulf shouldn't have Artillery and Ballista speciality, in fact none in the Fortress should, because of the overall low probability to increase the Attack skill.

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drath
drath

Tavern Dweller
posted October 14, 2001 04:50 AM

in my opinion the fortress is the worst! except for the cows
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The_Gootch
The_Gootch


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
posted May 30, 2002 06:37 PM
Edited By: The_Gootch on 30 May 2002

I knew I'd find this somewhere.  Thanks Hexa@!

Everyone has their personal favorites.  Fortress is becoming mine.  Take the creatures to start...

Gnoll Marauders:  Solid, high defense.  That's what counts.  

Lizard Warriors:  GREAT defense for a lvl 2.  15 hit points?  Geez, they're gonna stick around to at least distract someone.  Most helped by a bless spell.

Dragon Flies:  Without a doubt, the most versatile creature in the game.  FAST, and 2 specials that always kick in.  

Greater Basilisks:  Has anyone ever paid attention to their stats?  They are to me the 3rd best lel 4 in the game.  

Mighty Gorgons:  Entire threads have been devoted to the worship of the bulls.  Simply, the best creature for its level in the entire game.  

Wyvern Monarchs:  Well, you had to have a chink in the armor somewhere.  Cheap and quick to build are their virtues.  

Chaos Hydras:  I don't know which is worse...Mighty Gorgons obliterating the max amount of level 7s in one attack, or suddenly being smacked in all directions by the hydras that used to be the dragonflies I was doing a gang-bang on.

The structures are average.  +1 defense rocks as does a shipyard(not that you'll have the wood to build it anytime soon)  

The others contribute to your defending hero's stats in during a castle siege.  Beware of that.  You can get locked into your castle with someone planting a big, fast, magic-immune creature at your drawbrige.

Heroes are mixed.  Tazar is a great hero for any town.  When commanding his native troops, he really shines.  Alkin and Bron are the only others worth taking in my opinion as a starting hero.  Err, maybe Korbac if you think you've got what it takes.  

The witches are great except for a couple of things.  First, the skills that they are offered are by and large the worst of any hero class.  2nd, they have a predisposition towards power and knowledge levels 2-9 that even Elementalists and Wizards can't compete with.  The best ones in my opinion, are Andra, Miranda, and conditionally, Voy.  Voy does start with Slow, which is pretty useful.

Call me biased but Fortress is in my top three.  What else does it have to offer?

1.  With serpent flies you get the fastest scouts in the game day one or 2; Upgrade to dragon(real cheap I might add), and your scouts will be smokin'.

2.  Some may call this cheap but the comp hates to attack hydras.  This can be exploited by attacking Utopias much earlier than your opponents, as well as other treasuries.

3.  Did I mention how good the bulls are?

People who say the Fortress sucks don't know what they're talking about.  I know.  I used to be one of them.

 
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Sir_Stiven
Sir_Stiven


Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
posted May 30, 2002 10:02 PM

Personally i dont like playing fortress much, especially not on TOH maps. Randoms they are better at, but gnolls are to slow so you will lose to many units first week. Lizards are OK, flies are great for speedy scouts. In battle they kinda suck if un upgraded and in beginning since the gap between flies as ret takers and the attackers speed is too much.

Basiliks are ok, i wouldnt call them the best 4th lvl units i think there are several better ones (Crusaders for example) but they have good stats and its just great to stone opps when special kicks in.

Mighty Mooo´s RUELS.

Wyerns has to less HP for my taste, i dont like the wyerns at all except that u can get them day2 on randoms.

Hydras are way to slow, unless mass haste or teleport i dont like em at all.

In general i think they rely on their specials too much, if all specials kicks in at right time they are very hard to beat. But if not..well, they aint that good if u ask me.
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andiangelsla...
andiangelslayer


Disgraceful
Famous Hero
posted May 30, 2002 10:51 PM

just a few things, L1 and 2 most times dont mean anything, gnolls and lizards aint a bad combo, just bad that heroes come with so few gnolls at start.

the flies are the best L3, for scouts, map moving and final battle, their specials and speed are just awesome, and look at their growth, more than other towns L3.
the basilisks, gootch is right their stats are very good, i prefer them over crusaders coz their special is more devastating if it hits a enemys high level unit, in fact who isnt scared if they attack your best stack?
wyverns are not so strong, but often you get more from fly hives, and than they become very strong.
hydras are good vs the comp, and with speed arts or mass haste good in final battle too, just not vs hit and runners, but you know my oppinion bout that anyway...

the beastmasters, most are good playable, drakon korbac got good skills too, few really bad ones, witches well i dont like magic mains so they suck as much for me as wizards or so.
on rdms fortress is very strong i would say, and always fun to play
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Sir_Stiven
Sir_Stiven


Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
posted May 30, 2002 11:19 PM

to me lvl 1 and 2 can mean getting lvl 7 creatures or not first/2nd week on a random. while playing castle i never buy any troops first week except archers/pikes if im going after angels. I just cant afford having both units and getting those angels, so to me lvl 1&2 creatures means everything the first 1-5or6 days. The more creatures that survives the more res u can fight for.
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"Youre zeroes and ones, youre wrong where im right"

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andiangelsla...
andiangelslayer


Disgraceful
Famous Hero
posted May 30, 2002 11:25 PM

y, i mean in judging a town good or bad...lizards and gnolls aint that bad for starting, the start is 1 of fortress strenghts anyway, with wyvern and fast flys
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Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted May 31, 2002 02:40 AM

Fortress my specialty LOL.
I think lv 1& some lv 2 can be good for decoys like example a dragon utopia I will hire all my Knolls & have like 3-5 hydras & split my knolss out & munch those dragons.
of course I will use my common sense & not attack knowing I may lose but most likely I may do it with only 3 hydras & most maps I played I had some other creatures (non fortress) to help sacrafice to beat thy dragons.
Just an example.
I find it that lv are perfect decoys to beat an utopia.Or even better if they attack thy joiners ETC but depends LOL.
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Damacon_Ace
Damacon_Ace


Famous Hero
Also known as Nobris Agni
posted June 03, 2002 01:29 AM

Now to my opinion...

The Fortress is a fairly decent town, but it does have many glaring faults.

Let's see the bad ones first:
- Fortress town has only one shooter, Lizardmen, and they are not very strong shooters.
- Most fortress units are slow.
- Many fortress heroes, especially witches, have poor specialties.
- BUT THE BIGGEST ONE OF THEM ALL IS THAT THERE IS ONLY A LEVEL 3 MAGE GUILD!!! How can witches exercise their magic skills with such a lousy mage guild?!
- Wyverns are pretty lousy level 6 units.

But Fortress have many strengths:
- Fortress is relatively inexpensive to build and to maintain.
- Mighty Gorgons are simply the best level 5's. They can kill level 7's with ease in large numbers.
- Hydras are slow moving death. With teleport and/or haste, they are extremely dangerous.
- Dragonflies are decent units, and their weakness/dispel ability is extremely helpful.
- Beastmasters have high defence and armorer, therefore making them walls of steel in high levels.
- Good special buildings.

Overall, I would rate the Fortress 6th in town rankings. It would be near the top were it not for a 3rd level mage guild.
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Thunder
Thunder


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted June 03, 2002 10:50 PM

5th level spells. Dimension Door and Fly (only if you don't have DD) are great spells, the bad thing is that they are too good and thus are banned from most maps. Summon Elemental spells are rather weak. Start casting them on the first rounds of the battle and my bet is on your opponent's side. Magic Mirror, when was the last time you cast it? That leaves only two good 5th level spells: Implosion and Sacrifice. When DD and Fly are banned the chances for getting good 5th level spell is 2 out of 7. So you can forget rushing for your mage guild.

What comes to the fourth level spells, they are more powerful. Town Portal, Resurrection (although this isn't doing so much good as people might think), Prayer, Berserk, Meteor Shower, Counter Strike, and Chain Lightning are all good spells. Give Fortress the fourth level mage guild and we have the strongest town.
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madmartigan
madmartigan


Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
who will never walk alone
posted June 09, 2002 12:10 AM

Quote:
Summon Elemental spells are rather weak. Start casting them on the first rounds of the battle and my bet is on your opponent's side.



I guess you have never been summoned to death.


And, as Attila says above, nearly all of the maps, either ToH or random, give you a secondary town which you can build your mage guild.
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Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted June 10, 2002 10:23 AM

Fortress can be a deadly force on a random if giving enough time.
I was proven today that Fortress can have a hard time on a smaller random against a more fast paced town like Rampart .
Basically giving enough time you can make Fortress a power house since Hydras is easy to build & speedy units.
Thy Defense of a Beastlord can be devastating.
Mostly gotta take out Fortress early if you can or can mean doom.
Try using them on a Larger random map & a great Priority if facing example Rampart or Tower is too keep your distance.
Some games I can spot my opponent & they wont see me yet & know my & his surroundings & you can estimate when he will break through etc & will give you time to take care of other important business or time to setup a trap
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madmartigan
madmartigan


Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
who will never walk alone
posted June 10, 2002 01:54 PM

hehe

As, "Articulas" - as Wiz calls him- points out, fortress is good (on randoms) only if the map is a large one. Yea, it is an easy castle to build, but on week2, you usually do not have resources (depends) to recruit ALL of your army, since you spend all of your gold to build up in week1.

However, hydras are excellent creatures vs the AI monsters. It is amazing what you can kill with them.
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cane
cane


Hired Hero
posted June 10, 2002 11:25 PM

not good

firstly hi to all...
generally fortress seems a weak town but as most of you said it is cheap. except Level 1 and level 2 units, other level of creatures cant be defined as weak. Naturally (in my opinion) except halberdiers or gogs other level 1 and level 2 creatures are weak

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Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted June 11, 2002 01:27 AM

A typical newbie reply lol but it's ok I see it all thy time but if I can beat some of thy best with Fortress then your calculations must be incorrect somewhere Kane?
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