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meroe
Supreme Hero
Basically Smurfette
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posted September 11, 2014 12:32 AM |
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So what is the answer then Fred? Do nothing and hope/wait until people get better. In the meantime women will continue to be sexually harassed/assaulted etc while just trying to do the same thing as guys e.g. travelling around. Again, just something else us women are supposed to put up with.
Of course I don't think segregation is a good idea. But I would be negligent if I refused to help protect those that need protecting. It would make more sense for transport companies to employ more people so that there were more guards for example.
But regardless of all this, its just another nail in the coffin for equality because the reality of having to admit that women still cannot get around unmolested is a really sad and pathetic indictment of male attitudes that are still prevalent. So lets not think about it (because that would mean admitting it), put the onus on women (again) and carry on as usual boys.
____________
Meroe is definetely out, sweet
as she sounds sometimes, she'd
definetely castrate you with a
rusted razror and forcefeed
your genitals to you in a
blink of an eye - Kipshasz
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 11, 2014 12:45 AM |
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i read your first sentence, and i have to stop. i already said what needs done with gropers/wannabe rapists. they'll keep it up, as long as they aren't being physically attacked, pointed out, or ridiculed. it's the zip-lipped, "someone else will take care of me" tolerance that ALLOWS them to do what they do. if you want to solve a problem, then solve it. don't **** around with(and ESPECIALLY do not ignore) jerk-offs who like to play the adult version of "grab-ass" on unwilling participants.
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meroe
Supreme Hero
Basically Smurfette
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posted September 11, 2014 01:01 AM |
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See No Evil. Hear No Evil. Speak No Evil.
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Meroe is definetely out, sweet
as she sounds sometimes, she'd
definetely castrate you with a
rusted razror and forcefeed
your genitals to you in a
blink of an eye - Kipshasz
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 11, 2014 01:10 AM |
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Edited by fred79 at 01:33, 11 Sep 2014.
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what? the **** kind of response is that? are you feeling ok, meroe?
edit: nevermind. i don't want to continue this conversation with you.
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted September 11, 2014 01:35 AM |
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You guys are so cruel to each other.. it makes me..
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Living time backwards
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meroe
Supreme Hero
Basically Smurfette
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posted September 11, 2014 01:40 AM |
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Edited by meroe at 01:44, 11 Sep 2014.
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LOL yes I am perfectly fine, thank you for asking.
I would love to know why you think its sexist? I mean I could understand your pov if say, some rabid feminist group wanted 'female only' libraries or 'FO' streets etc etc. But when it comes to organisations deciding that offering a 'FO' area purely to try and combat sexual crimes, suddenly becomes sexist.
And you've made it perfectly clear that you believe the answer to this would be for women/girls to arm themselves before leaving home - so that we can humiliate/injure etc our assailants, because we all know from thousands of years of history just how much women love to fight. All that estrogen makes us mean and aggressive and trigger happy.
The truth is, there isn't an easy option here. Women have the right to travel unmolested, so what do we do? I don't advocate victim blaming i.e. trying to turn women into weapon wielding men types in an attempt to protect themselves from predatory men. When we should be honest enough to recognize and understand that certain long standing male behaviors towards women cannot be tolerated in a fair and equal society.
EDIT: I suppose I will get the blame for another Fred hissy fit. I mean we are discussing a female related issue, God forbid we talk to a female about it, huh.
____________
Meroe is definetely out, sweet
as she sounds sometimes, she'd
definetely castrate you with a
rusted razror and forcefeed
your genitals to you in a
blink of an eye - Kipshasz
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted September 11, 2014 01:53 AM |
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No meroe, I agree with your point. Segregation isn't always a bad thing, it's a case to case thing.
Here, if the situation really is so that it's the only way to be safe (I don't know, I've no knowledge about this issue), then obviously that's how to go about it.
What would be nicer is if anyone who have such issues could get help, and what would be even nicer is if there weren't such issues at all. That is if, man or woman, that people wouldn't have to fear for their safety, dignity, or lives in general.
I agree with you that weapons aren't the answer, and I agree with Fred that ultimately segregation aren't the answer either, but it's very difficult to call sexism when the issue (oppression) goes beyond that (discrimination), in my opinion.
Btw. you can have the blame for Fred being upset if you insist..  though I'm not sure he's, I think it's more like that the discussion has started to go in circles (same thing are being said in different ways) and it becomes tiresome. But I'm not sure, because to be honest, I don't know.
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Living time backwards
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meroe
Supreme Hero
Basically Smurfette
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posted September 11, 2014 02:08 AM |
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Like I said, there isn't an easy answer to this, because ultimately it hinges on a male trait that is ugly, embarrassing for guys to admit to but has been allowed to continue for far too long because its against women.
If men could control their behavior and not act in this way, we wouldn't be needing separate 'safe' places for women. I mean how pathetic - men jump on buses, take taxis and trains all the time without having to worry about whether or not they are going to get manhandled and assaulted by sex crazed guys. However, we women do. All the damn time. That is really bad. Its a real sad truth that we have had to live with.
So the fact that certain organizations have accepted the truth - that there are some men who are going to assault women sexually purely because the opportunity has arisen, is not a sexist move by women's groups etc. These organisations know this behavior is not acceptable and are at least trying to do something about it. Hell they want women using their transport systems too. Plenty of revenue there.
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Meroe is definetely out, sweet
as she sounds sometimes, she'd
definetely castrate you with a
rusted razror and forcefeed
your genitals to you in a
blink of an eye - Kipshasz
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted September 11, 2014 02:16 AM |
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Is that how it is where you're living currently, if so, I'm sorry to hear that and surprised, because I'd formed a different impression.. an impression that you live under rather safe circumstances? I do not deny there are many places in the world it's like that. The topic is the issue of men's abusiveness towards woman, and while that's the majority of the cases in question, I think it's fair to always keep in mind that woman on woman, woman on man, and man on man happens as well, just much more rarely.
I remember in my country that crime from young girl gangs (we're talking young teenage to low 20's girls here), who assault weak looking targets, men or women, doesn't matter. While such incidents in the world in general are rare, I think it's an oversimplification to say that men are more abusive due to biology alone (not saying that you claim this), and rather I think it also has a whole lot to do with society in general. In my country woman have, to a large extend, the same possibilities as men, and there aren't more violence towards women than towards men here.. which I think contributes to that percentage wise, the violators are also more evenly distributed.
With which I try to make the point that there are idiots everywhere.
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Living time backwards
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meroe
Supreme Hero
Basically Smurfette
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posted September 11, 2014 02:32 AM |
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Yeah you are from Denmark and the Scandinavian countries are far more advanced regarding gender equality than most others.
And yes Forfy, this isn't just a recent phenomena, its something that practically all women have experienced at some point in their lives. That is how some men treat women Forfy. This isn't new. And it happens everywhere. The discussion is about 'female only' taxis etc because of the issues regarding sexual assault on public transport. We are not talking about random violence elsewhere.
And yes, I know about girl gangs too. There are plenty of them now. 50 years ago, no. There will always be some negatives regarding behavior when there are new freedoms to be enjoyed, especially by a section of society that before wouldn't have dreamed of such things. Although there is no viable reason for girl gangs we know why gangs come about, especially in deprived areas. That is nothing new. And now we are seeing girl gangs, because young girls have the same opportunities as their boy peers do. Even in ghetto's and slums.
But that isn't the subject here.
____________
Meroe is definetely out, sweet
as she sounds sometimes, she'd
definetely castrate you with a
rusted razror and forcefeed
your genitals to you in a
blink of an eye - Kipshasz
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted September 11, 2014 02:40 AM |
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How dare you insinuate that I think it's a new problem?!?  Do you take me for some kind of fool!?
.. Joking aside. While where I live.. wait... How dare you reveal where I live!?! 
Actually we've recently had a lot about rapes in the news here. A foreign exchange student had just signed up for uni here, at an intro party she then gets raped by 3 old men.. and there's now been more than one case of mass rapists. So it's not like it's haven or anything, but there's no.. I don't know the right term.. culture(?) for people getting sexually assaulted on public transport here. Still violence though.
Sexual assaults in taxi's on the other hand, I wouldn't know. I've heard stories from abroad about pirate taxi's where people go in to never come out. Especially woman can be seen as weak when she's alone and it's late at night.
But you kind of avoided the most important thing.. do you, yourself, feel threatened, and if you do, why do you stay under such conditions?
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Living time backwards
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meroe
Supreme Hero
Basically Smurfette
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posted September 11, 2014 03:06 AM |
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As a women I have no idea what it is like for guys going out on your own. As a woman I take precautions .... jeepers I was born and brought up in London I'm prepared to lash out at a moments notice
Its not about staying under such conditions at all. Its about how men treat women and the s**t we have had to put up with just to go about our daily business.
____________
Meroe is definetely out, sweet
as she sounds sometimes, she'd
definetely castrate you with a
rusted razror and forcefeed
your genitals to you in a
blink of an eye - Kipshasz
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted September 11, 2014 03:09 AM |
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I don't know how it's for guys when they go out on their own either.
Do you feel badly treated during your daily life or occasionally experience men/people who're horrible towards you? What do they do?
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Living time backwards
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meroe
Supreme Hero
Basically Smurfette
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posted September 11, 2014 03:23 AM |
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LOL, no I don't feel badly treated. I could have it a hell of a lot worse. I could be living in Afghanistan or Yemen. So I count my blessings. But yes I have experienced this type of behavior first hand, many times. I think you will be hard pressed to find a female who hasn't. Sometimes I've confronted the guy, sometimes confrontation would be dangerous.
Plus its a situation where other people are unlikely to get involved. If you hear a woman screaming at a guy to keep his hands off her a$$. No one does anything. Maybe some grumbling. But its her word against his and you will be surprised at just how many people make their decision after looking at the woman - as though her clothes etc make a difference.
____________
Meroe is definetely out, sweet
as she sounds sometimes, she'd
definetely castrate you with a
rusted razror and forcefeed
your genitals to you in a
blink of an eye - Kipshasz
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted September 11, 2014 03:26 AM |
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Would a baby girl count?
I am sorry you've to go through traumatic experiences which makes you feel fearful to a degree where you even sound slightly paranoid. I'm glad you don't feel badly treated now.
About screaming for help, I don't think you're right it has anything to with clothes. If I should guess I'll say fear is the most likely culprit.
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Living time backwards
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meroe
Supreme Hero
Basically Smurfette
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posted September 11, 2014 03:34 AM |
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No what I meant Forfy is that we still blame the victim for the crime. Even without realizing people are checking out what the girl is wearing, as though somehow that is an excuse for the guy to grope.
Do you see? Rather than turn our attention to the guy and be angry and kick his butt etc etc. We still make excuses for male behavior by somehow making it about the female. "That dress was very tight" etc. Society still does this.
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Meroe is definetely out, sweet
as she sounds sometimes, she'd
definetely castrate you with a
rusted razror and forcefeed
your genitals to you in a
blink of an eye - Kipshasz
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted September 11, 2014 03:46 AM |
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And trying to put guilt on the victim for sexual assault doesn't only happen through clothing. If a rape victim experiences orgasm, people will generally think he/she must have wanted it then, but we do not always decide how our body responds.
But I think it has always been like this with any group being targeted. Once the oppressor sees his regime is being challenged he always try to find reasons for why the oppression should continue, so was it e.g. with slavery.. to such a degree the USA was split in two.
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Living time backwards
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Sal
Famous Hero
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posted September 12, 2014 11:23 PM |
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friendofgunnar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
able to speed up time
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posted September 13, 2014 01:13 AM |
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Regarding female only public transpo, I am +10 in favor of that. 95% of the obnoxious behaviour on public transpo comes from men. This includes smelling horribly, leering and groping, playing music loudly, being drunk and rude, and being contagious. Anybody who's been in a city knows the people that ride buses and trains come from the bottom echelons of society. They're frequently homeless or 1 or 2 steps away from it. More importantly though THEY ARE IMMUNE TO WHAT THE REST OF SOCIETY THINKS ABOUT THEM. There is no way to shame them into behaving properly, and for the people on the crazy end of the spectrum there is no way to punish them into behaving properly.
If you live in a city and your goal is to increase ridership (because you want to unclog the roads and reduce pollution and create a cost-effective transpo system), providing an environment for women that's free of all these things is pretty much required. The only question really is how far you go. In the worst cases the only solution is female-only transit.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted September 13, 2014 01:37 AM |
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Well, I think the clowns in our White House certainly qualify for "wtf". The level of ineptitude is really incredible.
First, Obama tells us the Islamic State isn't Islamic. Even so, he outlines an extensive plan about how we're going to bomb the hell out of them with air strikes and provide weapons to their enemy. Then yesterday SOS John Kerry tells the media that we're not going to war with the Islamic State. Meanwhile, when asked if we're going to war, White House national security advisor Susan Rice responded, "We will not have American combat forces on the ground fighting, as we did in Iraq and Afghanistan," (which is a lie, since we just sent more troops over there), and insinuated that's how Americans define war. But then today the White House put out a statement contradicting John Kerry, saying we are indeed at war with ISIS.
I've never seen so many mixed messages from an Administration in my life. It's like the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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