|
|
OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
|
posted September 19, 2014 06:40 PM |
|
|
I accidentally posted the wrong link, sorry.
Anyway, I'd like to point out that ridiculing may not be the nicest way to get a point across. (I keep having an image in my head where the genders are reversed).
____________
Living time backwards
|
|
fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted September 19, 2014 06:41 PM |
|
Edited by fred79 at 18:41, 19 Sep 2014.
|
@ meroe: you don't think that maybe that is the very reason why she may have done it? because no one would believe the older man? such people do exist, meroe.
you know damn well, that if it had been a male nurse sexually assaulting an older woman, that you would have no doubts about the validity, and you would have been in a rage about it.
|
|
OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
|
|
posted September 19, 2014 06:46 PM |
|
|
That's what I meant by the genders reversed, but my first link wasn't a good one, so I don't think meroe is to blame for her reaction.
The new link is the one I intended to post at first, here there's an actual lawsuit going on, meaning that the truth hopefully will come out.
I shall not reject that there are many victims on both sides, innocent claimed to be rapists and victims of rape, so there's always the matter of determining it. Once the offense is reported however, I think it should be treated seriously, and while we don't know the truth, I think neither should be judged before it has went to court.
I think meroe's point about the wife finding out is an interesting perspective, because if I'd a wife and I'd been fooling around with her second husband, dang well I'd do "next to anything" to get out of the mess. Sometimes it goes too far, with courts getting involved which may not have been the idea at all.
On the other hand, I'd not be surprised if many rapes have nothing to do with the actual sex, and more about power. Because when someone is at your mercy and you think you're invincible (e.g. it's your word against mine, no one would think I'd ever do such thing, etc.) then it may tempt for reasons different than attractiveness.
____________
Living time backwards
|
|
meroe
Supreme Hero
Basically Smurfette
|
|
posted September 19, 2014 06:47 PM |
|
|
No I get in a rage about it, after its been proven. However, regardless of that I think you seriously need to ask yourself what kind of woman, supposedly in her 20's would really want to sexually assault a geriatric ??? Because I sure in hell can't.
However, if (as unlikely as it seems) it turned out to be true, I would be happy to eat my words. And have her treated exactly the same as a male sexual abuser. However, as a woman in my 20's, in this profession, working with the aged, I can assure you this is so far from any reality I know. However, I am not unused to certain male patients trying it on at every available opportunity.
____________
Meroe is definetely out, sweet
as she sounds sometimes, she'd
definetely castrate you with a
rusted razror and forcefeed
your genitals to you in a
blink of an eye - Kipshasz
|
|
fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted September 19, 2014 06:50 PM |
|
|
|
@ meroe: i didn't say the man wasn't lying, or a horny old goat who got turned down, either. i'm just not automatically ruling out the possibility, based on sex, like you are. because that would be sexist, regardless of if it's easily believable or not.
|
|
meroe
Supreme Hero
Basically Smurfette
|
|
posted September 19, 2014 06:59 PM |
|
|
Just because I don't believe his claims, doesn't make me sexist Fred. I just don't believe it. I've seen similar behavior. Horny old guys, getting frisky around the nurses, then they get all embarrassed or crotchety when the family catches him acting inappropriate and like a stupid old goat. Then he's all - its sex crazed nurses forcing themselves on innocent old men trying to watch Oprah.
Now, I am not going to pretend that some patients in hospitals have indeed been abused. I just don't believe Forfy's first post. Now the second one had a little more credence to it. Although, she was an I.T.C. nurse! surely if her behavior was that bad some other professional must have noticed something before?? Jeepers. So what there was only one I.T.C. nurse around?? That is crazy. "And where the unsolicited acts took place". So something happened sexually - what in a ward? with other patients around? and nurses?.
I really want to know the outcome of this story.
____________
Meroe is definetely out, sweet
as she sounds sometimes, she'd
definetely castrate you with a
rusted razror and forcefeed
your genitals to you in a
blink of an eye - Kipshasz
|
|
OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
|
|
posted September 19, 2014 07:06 PM |
|
|
Thank you for noticing I'd changed the link. 
Like I wrote, the first one was a mistake, and shouldn't have been posted. I found the article in my language, made a quick google search and only read the title. When you started to write about 20 year old, etc. I figured something was wrong.
Yes the circumstances sounds strange now you mention it, but I'm not used to hospital practices, so I didn't think about it before.
____________
Living time backwards
|
|
fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted September 19, 2014 07:20 PM |
|
|
both stories looked nearly the same to me. older male sexually assaulted by a female nurse, who was younger than the older male.
i'm not saying i believe any of it, at all. i don't believe most of what's on the news, especially not something i might see on a trash tabloid talk show. the truth may or may not come out, even when the story is brought to whatever conclusion.
my point, however, is that if it were an older female who was sexually assaulted by a younger male nurse, many people wouldn't have trouble believing it. and there would be outrage.
meroe, you displayed the reverse of that; and apparently because of what sex was accused of the act. i don't see how you don't think that's sexist. you seem to have a specific set of blinders, when it comes to what you see. and you don't seem to be aware of it.
it's the whole double-standard thing that bothers me, in a society supposedly geared(or gearing) towards equality.
|
|
meroe
Supreme Hero
Basically Smurfette
|
|
posted September 19, 2014 07:25 PM |
|
|
The reason why most people wouldn't have trouble believing it if it was an older woman being sexually assaulted, is because, on the whole more men commit sexual assaults than women. That is just a fact. Which is why people will still doubt female on male sexual violence. That is not my fault, its just a reflection on an ugly truth.
____________
Meroe is definetely out, sweet
as she sounds sometimes, she'd
definetely castrate you with a
rusted razror and forcefeed
your genitals to you in a
blink of an eye - Kipshasz
|
|
OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
|
|
posted September 19, 2014 07:33 PM |
|
|
meroe said:
[...]most people wouldn't have trouble believing it if it was an older woman being sexually assaulted, is because, on the whole more men commit sexual assaults than women.[...]That is not my fault, its just a reflection on an ugly truth.
Which of course isn't the fault of the single male victim.
____________
Living time backwards
|
|
fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted September 19, 2014 07:34 PM |
|
Edited by fred79 at 19:35, 19 Sep 2014.
|
@ meroe: fair enough.
i still think you're sexist, though. you're always quick to believe injustice towards females, but slow to believe that men can experience the same injustice. you have given me this impression more than once.
but you're not the only one. my own mother and aunt are the same way. i'm sure more will reveal themselves to me, given enough time.
it's pretty depressing.
|
|
meroe
Supreme Hero
Basically Smurfette
|
|
posted September 19, 2014 07:44 PM |
|
Edited by meroe at 19:45, 19 Sep 2014.
|
I stand up for women and their rights. And to some men that seems to them sexist. Especially guys who live in the Western World and have never really had to face sexism before. I remember your disbelief when I was talking about female daily experiences and pov, about the way guys behave and treat females (often without realizing it). You were incredulous. So because you have that view I think you find it hard to accept a female experience because in your mind you believe things to be equal already and are wondering what we are complaining about.
Well unfortunately things still are not equal. Albeit far far better for Western women than others. Perhaps you should ask your mother and aunts exactly what they mean, and what has caused them to see things the way they do. Perhaps that might help you.
Me personally, I think you are a nice guy. But you are naive and blinkered and as a result you can act in your own sexist male way.
And that is depressing for me.
Despite what you think, I do not believe females are superior to males. I know we are equal. And we should be respected and treated as such. However, I am not going to gloss over certain facts just to ease someones ego.
____________
Meroe is definetely out, sweet
as she sounds sometimes, she'd
definetely castrate you with a
rusted razror and forcefeed
your genitals to you in a
blink of an eye - Kipshasz
|
|
fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted September 19, 2014 08:25 PM |
|
|
@ meroe: well, not to get off-topic here(after thinking about it, this IS on topic, because, wtf?), but my mom and my aunt were both abused by men. they still haven't gotten over it, 20+ years later. they both think that ALL men are abusers(they have told me this themselves, and they display it in their every decision and action). they don't trust them at all.
and, they both think they are right. and both have never sought counseling for what happened, either. my dad did. he's a different man, now. that monster that was in him, is gone. maybe just retired, maybe dead. maybe, after counseling, he felt no more need to assert himself over others through cruel acts.
i don't remember ever going to counseling for the abuse, but i got over it. i still talk to my dad, and I don't think all males are abusive. i was abused longer than both my mom AND my aunt, so they have no excuse whatsoever to carry around this past, like it is something affecting them in the present. they've both had chances with decent men, and they both blew it(my aunt's currently blowing it, possibly again. my mom made good guys leave a number of times). and they STILL blame ONLY men.
my mom, when we got in an argument about what i contribute to her life, some months ago, she actually said to me, "you didn't help me when i was being abused. what did you do to protect me?"
i was 4-8 years old at the time. this is the kind of **** she'll pull out of nowhere on me. like it was MY fault that she picked a bad guy, and stayed with him for years. like it was MY fault that i curled into a ball under a table and escaped into my own head when he was abusing her.
after my dad and mom split, dad had only me to play with. i was the lowest spot on the totem pole, because he had two daughters(both younger than me) who were actually his. if they got hurt, he thought I did it. even if he saw what happened, he would get mad, and take it out on me anyway. i got hurt every time they got hurt, regardless.
and my mom abused me, as well. i had two ****ty parents. but i don't hold what they did in the past against them. i forgave them of their stupidity and aggressiveness. i forgave them of the pain they caused me, growing up.
take a second to think about this: whenever my mom couldn't control me, she called dad. a woman, who lived with an abuser, who she knows abused her child; used that very abuser to keep me under her thumb. neat, huh?
this is the rationale, of dealing with a woman, who doesn't think that she can commit any wrong. only guys can be wrong. only guys hurt.
now do you see why i have a problem with women thinking that men are the only thing wrong with the world? and why i have a problem with double standards?
|
|
meroe
Supreme Hero
Basically Smurfette
|
|
posted September 19, 2014 08:49 PM |
|
Edited by meroe at 22:19, 19 Sep 2014.
|
You are not the only one with abusive parents. I sympathize. However, you have done something again and you haven't even noticed it. Your father was (sounds like) physically abusive. Both your mother and your aunt have a very bad taste in men and probably go for the same types a lot (perversely its a vicious circle). But, and I am only guessing here, your father beat your mother up? Well as you know that is not easy to get over. Especially as he was also sleeping with your mother at the same time. So she was not just physically abused but sexually abused as well, also include emotional abuse. However, you blame your mom for not getting over her trauma - as though somehow that makes her a bad guy. Yet you excuse your father, saying he become better after therapy. Well good for him, considering he was the abuser. Doesn't make your mother any less the victim. It was your dad who was beating your mother not the other way around. Easy for him to 'get past things'.
And because you were so young, you probably don't know exactly what your father may have done to your mother. Neither will you have 100% insight into your mother's past relationships.
Now don't get me wrong, I am not excusing your mother completely. She obviously didn't do a great job of protecting you - she stayed with her abuser. Now again there may have been genuine reasons for this too. Financial reasons. Some woman, well many woman especially of our mothers and grandmothers age had no choice but to stay with an abusive husband - there was literally no where she could go for help.
However, regardless of all this and its no business of mine to speculate on your family and upbringing, but I will say this. You are very angry towards your mother considering she was a victim of domestic abuse at the hands of your father, who abused you too. Yet you seem to forgive your father, not your mother - who probably had her life ruined by your dad.
And I think that this probably colors your attitude towards women and feminism.
____________
Meroe is definetely out, sweet
as she sounds sometimes, she'd
definetely castrate you with a
rusted razror and forcefeed
your genitals to you in a
blink of an eye - Kipshasz
|
|
OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
|
|
posted September 19, 2014 09:44 PM |
|
|
I'm very sorry to hear that you guys have been abused.
meroe said:
Easy for him to 'get past things'.
I bullied and I was a bully, not on the same time though. I became a target after I decided violence always was wrong. Still what I find most troublesome are those I bullied, not those who bullied me. After all I can forgive others, but I'll never know what I've done to the lives of those I mistreated.
The only comfort I've is that I was very young when I was like this (~5-7 years old).
____________
Living time backwards
|
|
fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted September 19, 2014 09:54 PM |
|
|
you skipped over some of what i posted, meroe.
you must not have read the part where i forgave them both for their mistreatment of me? i didn't ONLY forgive my dad. and my dad wasn't the ONLY one abusing me.
what my mom feels for my dad is her business, just like what my aunt feels for her old husband is her business. the issue is, they think of ALL men like they were the old abusers. they blame ALL men for what one did.
the only way you could miss what i was saying, and my point, is by not wanting to hear something from the male perspective(that, or you're getting angry and want to avoid anything that might create an argument between us. i don't know which).
and, you try to turn the discussion around on me, again; by stating that i should understand my mom's or my aunt's hatred of ALL men, like i'm somehow missing some point. yeah, i get it, they were abused. so what? so was i. so were a million billion other people. are you telling me they have a RIGHT to blame ALL men, including their own children who were also abused, just because they were abused by a(ONE) man?
i don't see how you can rationally justify that.
i brought up my family in this, because i think you feel the same way as they do about men in general, based on what you have posted in this forum, regarding gender-related issues. i brought my mom and aunt up, to point out how WRONG they are, in their entire-gender-encompassing hatred.
i can understand, hating your abuser. that makes rational sense. but EVERYONE of that gender? the ENTIRE gender is to blame?
that, meroe, is NOT rational. that's REEEEALLY far, from rational.
understand, meroe, i'm not angry, not at all. the words i emphasized are to make a point, not to yell or anything.
let me put it this way:
if a man commits a crime, does every single male in that family have to answer for it? are ALL the men in that family sent to jail? or just whoever committed the crime? would you say that jailing just the person who broke the law, is a good response, or not enough?
that's the point i'm making, in bringing up my mom and my aunt. because according to their rationale, ALL of the men in that family, should go to jail.
|
|
fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted September 19, 2014 10:03 PM |
|
|
OhforfSake said:
I'm very sorry to hear that you guys have been abused.
meroe said:
Easy for him to 'get past things'.
I bullied and I was a bully, not on the same time though. I became a target after I decided violence always was wrong. Still what I find most troublesome are those I bullied, not those who bullied me. After all I can forgive others, but I'll never know what I've done to the lives of those I mistreated.
The only comfort I've is that I was very young when I was like this (~5-7 years old).
this could be the reason why my dad spends almost all of his time with his new family, and barely contacts us anymore. it might hurt him to think about the past, i don't know.
maybe he doesn't feel any regret for what he did, either. maybe he feels like since he went to therapy, he was "cleansed" of any wrongdoing. he IS a catholic, after all. 
my dad used to cry, when he told us he'd change. he used to genuinely look like he felt horrible about what he had done. but he always managed to fall back on his old ways, which leads me to believe it might have been crocodile tears. i really don't know. regardless, the past is dead for me. the present is all that matters, and i choose not to feel like victim, because it only hurts, and makes you miserable.
i've got better ways to spend my time, and live.
i was also a bully for a very brief period, ohfor. it lasted all of a week, and even though i hated trying it out just to fit in, i don't look back at what i've done in a bad light; because i was still trying to find out where i fit into the world.
a lifetime from then, i now know where i fit, and i'm comfortable in my space. mostly.
|
|
meroe
Supreme Hero
Basically Smurfette
|
|
posted September 19, 2014 10:18 PM |
|
Edited by meroe at 22:20, 19 Sep 2014.
|
No Fredmuffin, I didn't gloss over your entire post at all. I just felt that picking away at it was somewhat disrespectful. Like "who does she think she is". So I just hit on a few things.
And granted there are a lot of train wreck woman out there, who constantly make massive mistakes and treat really good guys like snow, because they don't take any responsibility for their actions. It affects their kids lives too, obviously. Good grief I have seen many many women who live like that.
But the reality is what I have said many times before in many different threads. Not everyone thinks the same way. We are always going to have women who cannot accept responsibility for their actions and will always blame men for them ending up alone; just as we have men who still do not take women seriously, belittle them and abuse them. For every woman out there who blames guys and calls them abusers, there is a woman-hating guy who cannot tolerate the thought of being bested by a woman and will do whatever he can to belittle them. They are both abusers. But anyone who bases the entire sex on these people are fools.
I have already told you about my own upbringing, however I do not blame men or women for what happened to me. Neither have I ever thought of men as abusers.
But I didn't comment further on your family, as quite frankly I have no idea what the family dynamics were like.
____________
Meroe is definetely out, sweet
as she sounds sometimes, she'd
definetely castrate you with a
rusted razror and forcefeed
your genitals to you in a
blink of an eye - Kipshasz
|
|
OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
|
|
posted September 19, 2014 10:26 PM |
|
|
Well it's funny you should say that, this morning I considered some of the events where I was the victim, and I came to the conclusion that many of the times it could simply be people trying to fit in.
In that way people who bullied me got new friends and suddenly they also very briefly did the same, now making me believe they probably tried to get accepted by the person who bullied me.
I didn't bully to try and fit in.. except for one time I gave in to group pressure but I don't remember anytime before or after, I've actually been rather good at not giving in and do stuff I didn't want to do. No, instead, once I got tired or annoyed by something, it didn't take much before I started a physical abusive behavior. Much like a child getting bored by his toy. I had no respect for others, I remember once my dad told me this other kid was stronger than me.. I don't know why it even came up, but it annoyed me, so the next day in kindergarten I beat him up.. "funny" how ~8 years later, when he finally got stronger than me, he turned into my worst nightmare. Physically abusive towards me 5 days a week. Actually odd it took so long before the other kids got stronger than me, they did eventually, but I hardly ever ate even from the moment I was born (I lost weight after birth) and other children always had more weight to push around than me.. of course there were always some who were stronger, but it around 10 years before it was everyone. At that point the difference was also huge, I looked like I was ~2 years younger than all the other kids.
About asking for forgiveness, promising to change your ways, and yet fall back into the same old.. I don't know how many times I myself have done this, yet it doesn't change that I'm sincere. I also generally want to believe the best in people, so I guess that's +2. While it's easy to say one wants to change, it's easy to make promises.. usually, actual change may be a whole different issue and may require a lot of help. It's very difficult to say.
Well we all know Catholic is just another word for Overzeolous Religious Fanatic with Feminazism Tendencies.. am I right meroe?
meroe said:
I have already told you about my own upbringing, however I do not blame men or women for what happened to me. Neither have I ever thought of men as abusers.
I think I wasn't here then? What thread was this in? /Stalkermode Engaged.
____________
Living time backwards
|
|
fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted October 02, 2014 06:31 PM |
|
|
| |
|
|
This thread is pages long: 
