|
| Thread: Mod Manager? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
|
Gnoll_Mage
Responsible
Supreme Hero
|
posted January 27, 2008 12:41 AM |
|
|
Mod Manager?
Edit:
I've now started making this program. I will try to contact any previous mod manager programmers, if possible. BUT the chances of me finishing this are slim. Free time is slowly draining away and motivation may well go with it. So please, don't get your hopes up too high! 
Original post:
The idea of having such a program popped into my head a short while ago, and Magnomagus (I think) linked to one posted at Elrath. Anyway, I think such a program is a good idea, and thought maybe I could make one.
Possible features include:
List of mods installed
Being able to disable specific mods
Browse an online, sorted catalogue of mods
Download and install these mods automatically
Display information for mods - screenshots, author, type etc.
Allowing mod developers to update their mods, whereupon the program tells users that an update for a mod is available
Plus project-specific things like NCF-related stuff etc.
Conflict detection, like in the below link
And so on.
So, a good idea? Would this be useful and practical? The main thing for me to ask is, is it worth doing with the existing program? (Change the number at the end of that address to 15, 30 etc. to see the rest of the thread.) How would Paradox, the creator of that program, come into all this? Who uses the mod manager I linked to there? Which modders would like their mods to be downloadable in such a fashion?
Plus all the usual NBs of course - I don't know whether I am capable of it (Visual Studio 2008 VB) and I certainly don't know whether I'll have the time and motivation to do it.
All comments appreciated, this is just me laying the idea on the table.
Diary:
26th Jan
Someone inspires me to make such a program, but I find out one already exists. VB2008 installed after a lot of problems with slow installs, virus scanners and the like.
27th Jan
First tests of the possibilities of making such a program in VB2008. Initial screenshots:
Firstly I needed to know how to access data on the web from within a VB program. I decided, like Nival, to use XML to store the info for the mods, and the Microsoft help website explained how to load and process XML files. Then I created a usercontrol that would contain all the info for a single mod, which would then be listed within a scrollable frame on the main form. This box is the "browse catalogue" idea, so it went into the second tab, behind the "installed mods" tab, which is currently empty. There are two structures in the project, one relating to a single mod, the other to a single author (this is slightly unnecessary but neat all the same).
28th Jan
Files from specified mod folders are now loaded into the program (path is saved in the registry), and I have got VB zip access working after downloading a library for it. I also created the MySQL database and set up some PHP to dynamically generate the correct XML, which the program can then load. It is currently a very slow loading process though. Got the VB file download function working, so files can be taken from the host server. Finally, one or two aesthetic changes were made.
29th Jan'
Little progress made - managed to get the zip files to expand, and the program now installs the main part of the mod in the correct folder (probably, I haven't tested properly yet). Most of time was spent trying to get the program to access a database to store info on the downloaded mods. After trying various options, I thought I had something that worked, but unfortunately (as well as one minor issue) every time I changed a line of code relating to the database connections, the whole database went kaboom and emptied itself. I posted a question about it on a help forum so hopefully they will shed some light, but then I discovered another database connection method which does seem to work, although I haven'y fully tested it yet. If that doesn't work, it'll be XML again, or text files, unfortunately.
30th Jan'
Managed to get the program to add rows and select data from the database with standard SQL commands - but the database is still being mysteriously cleared periodically, so I've tried another forum in hope of some help from the experts.
31st Jan
Thankfully, a poster solved the database problem. (It was copying in an empty database, because normally when you compile a program for distribution, you don't want the database you used for testing to be accessible - that is, you don't want my installed mods referenced to in the database when you download this program. Weirdly though, by default in VB the same logic is applied to compiling for testing.) The database is now updated when a mod is downloaded, and the list of mods in the install folder displays info on a mod if it is one that has been downloaded via the program itself. I added a search box for each list which scrolls down as you type to the first mod which starts with the typed string (needed another internet search to work out how to control the scrolling so finely). Mods on the hard drive can now be disabled by unchecking the check box in the relevant container (renames file ending to disabledXXX where XXX=h5u, h5m or pak - will this work for all endings and game versions anyone?). Mod type field added in all the right places, the difficulty of which made me write the post about needing to sort out mod detail fields in one go. Also, I need to decide which information is written in the list, and which can only be obtained by clicking on a mod (e.g. description and screenshot(s)).
1st Feb
Decided that combo boxes (dropdown lists) would be best for selecting only one type of mod, for now at least. Added them, but haven't added any functionality yet. Also realised that there needed to be a better search function (the current one only looks at the start of the mod title), so another button has been added, which opens a new form, which is almost empty at the moment.
2nd Feb'
Combo box functionality added. Basic search and basic sort are present, now the more advanced versions need to be added - sort by popularity (see one of my posts on the 2nd page), search for mods by a certain author, etc..
3rd Feb''
No work done (the beginning of the end?).
4th Feb'
Again, none done.
5th Feb, 6th Feb, 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th
Ditto. Busy patch approaching, this will have to be `moved to the rear` for the moment.
11th Feb''
Laid out advanced search form. Internet connection down, so little else could be done.
12th Feb
Nothing done.
____________
|
|
Wulfstan8182
Famous Hero
, eh?
|
|
posted January 27, 2008 12:53 AM |
|
|
cool idea. i especially like the catalog idea!
|
|
WarPriest
Hired Hero
|
|
posted January 27, 2008 01:04 AM |
|
|
|
interesting, it doesnt seem too easy to do though
|
|
Gnoll_Mage
Responsible
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted January 27, 2008 01:50 PM |
|
|
No, I would have to do some research about communicating with something on the web, and so on; but I think most of it would be possible to do.
____________
|
|
Wulfstan8182
Famous Hero
, eh?
|
|
posted January 27, 2008 04:08 PM |
|
|
go gnoll! i have been waiting for this for ages! i am really interested in the online catalog idea. i have some great ideas for it
____________
|
|
Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
|
|
posted January 27, 2008 04:12 PM |
|
|
A really, really excellent idea, I for one would love something like this. 
|
|
Orfinn
Supreme Hero
Werewolf Duke
|
|
posted January 27, 2008 10:28 PM |
|
Edited by Orfinn at 22:28, 27 Jan 2008.
|
Is it just me that get a deja vu feeling here? Didnt some guys at CH create a mod manager or something similar to this? I bet I have that bit of info from when I was very active there, for over a year ago....
____________
|
|
Gnoll_Mage
Responsible
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted January 27, 2008 10:28 PM |
|
|
Right guys, whether you like it or not, I am going to write a development diary on this. More time to take up, but hey.
____________
|
|
Gnoll_Mage
Responsible
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted January 27, 2008 10:41 PM |
|
|
Orfinn - if so (and it is likely, this is an obvious project) it isn't really good news, because it means two such projects have already been made:
1. this means that 2 have already basically been forgotten about, so mine may well be;
2. this means that mine will be even more redundant;
3. this means that I have to consider 2 or more different previous authors of such programs.
Thanks for the support guys, it is much appreciated, but I would like to hear particularly what should be done about the exising one or two projects, and their respective authors.
____________
|
|
Wulfstan8182
Famous Hero
, eh?
|
|
posted January 27, 2008 11:38 PM |
|
|
sort the mods by type. textures, NCF, etc.
____________
|
|
Gnoll_Mage
Responsible
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted January 27, 2008 11:40 PM |
|
|
Yep, of course. Modders will be able to include an info file in their distribution zip that will provide details about the mod to the program. Without this info, the intention is that the program will try to guess what sort of mod the mod in question is - texture, gameplay, NCF etc..
Edit: Wulfstan, I notice some italicised text in your post - you are right, these are all ideas, there are no promises about what I can or will do! 
____________
|
|
Wulfstan8182
Famous Hero
, eh?
|
|
posted January 28, 2008 05:08 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Edit: Wulfstan, I notice some italicised text in your post - you are right, these are all ideas, there are no promises about what I can or will do!
lol, i didn't "intalic it up" for that reason, i was saying that i use the word idea too much although i agree with what you said tho.
____________
|
|
sfidanza
Promising
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted January 28, 2008 09:58 PM |
|
|
Gnoll_Mage: the latest (and really useful) mod manager I'm using is the one by CJDSoft:
http://cjdsoft.by.ru/
|
|
Gnoll_Mage
Responsible
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted January 28, 2008 11:17 PM |
|
|
Ah now sfidanza, you know I value your opinion - do you think this is a good idea, with the online database, modder updates, NCF support and so on - and worth making with these two+three+ programs already in existance? (How did you find that one by the way?)
____________
|
|
magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
|
|
posted January 29, 2008 01:07 AM |
|
|
I like the simplicity and effectiveness of the russian manager but I still think your ideas deserve another release. I think the main question is, who is going to maintain the modding database that is included or communicates with your manager? After the manager is finished that will probably become a lot more work then creating it.
____________
MMH5.5 Downloads | MMH5.5 Translations | MMH5.5 FAQ
|
|
Gnoll_Mage
Responsible
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted January 29, 2008 02:02 AM |
|
|
Hmm I don't know about that, once I'd got it running smoothy, people would presumably be able to upload mods to it themselves, publish updates etc.. Making sure it worked would be a similar (if slightly more demanding) task to keeping the actual program working properly. Thanks for the support.
____________
|
|
sfidanza
Promising
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted January 29, 2008 06:03 PM |
|
|
As you said, there are 2 parts in such a program:
1. manage mods locally on the user computer
2. provide an interface to a mod database
Part 1 is already well done in CJDSoft manager. It only needs to be spread on the forums. That's something I alluded to several times in december, but never had the time to write a post. Especially since I couldn't access the site myself without a proxy (but that's fixed now).
Part 2 requires that a mod database already exists, and that you interface with it. Otherwise, even if you feed the information yourself, in particular for the download locations, some of them might not last and require constant updates, or will require user input anyway in the download page, since they're blocking automatic downloads...
Basically, what I'm saying here is that part 2 is not a desktop app, but a full featured web app which doesn't exist yet. It is one of the projects I have for the next months, but I don't know when I'll have the time to really work on it. When I do, however, it will be interesting to discuss it together, and I'll make sure to include you in the dev process.
|
|
Gnoll_Mage
Responsible
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted January 29, 2008 09:40 PM |
|
|
Thank you.
Quote:
As you said, there are 2 parts in such a program:
1. manage mods locally on the user computer
2. provide an interface to a mod database
Part 1 is already well done in CJDSoft manager. It only needs to be spread on the forums. That's something I alluded to several times in december, but never had the time to write a post. Especially since I couldn't access the site myself without a proxy (but that's fixed now).
I'm surprised with all these mod managers out there, that I have never come across any of them before. Clearly there needs to be a more of an effort made to advertise such things, after all they ought to be useful for a significant number of people.
Quote:
Part 2 requires that a mod database already exists, and that you interface with it. Otherwise, even if you feed the information yourself, in particular for the download locations, some of them might not last and require constant updates, or will require user input anyway in the download page, since they're blocking automatic downloads...
The plan was that the files were uploaded to the mod database server. Of course, there could be various issues with this, I guess you're the expert there, but otherwise you're right, there would be mods disappearing all over the place and many would not be automatically downloadable, which is required really.
Quote:
Basically, what I'm saying here is that part 2 is not a desktop app, but a full featured web app which doesn't exist yet. It is one of the projects I have for the next months, but I don't know when I'll have the time to really work on it. When I do, however, it will be interesting to discuss it together, and I'll make sure to include you in the dev process.
Yes, the mod database should be accessible from the web too I guess.
So to sum up - is the above post "Go for it Andy, go for it" or "Hold back a bit, let me see if I can find some time and we can develop together" or "At least part of what you're doing is verging on pointless / being a bad use of your time" or ...???
____________
|
|
sfidanza
Promising
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted January 29, 2008 11:22 PM |
|
|
It's more like "Hold back a bit, let me see if I can find some time and we can develop together"
But you can go ahead of course. Mainly, I'm just saying that your part 2 without a solid mod database to connect to will not be easily maintainable. And it happens that a mod db is part of my plans for the future, so we'll be complementary here.
|
|
Gnoll_Mage
Responsible
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted January 30, 2008 01:32 AM |
|
|
Okely dokely, I shall wait a little while, although I'm trying to get as much done whilst I have the enthusiasm! Although come to think of it, I could just do the main program and use the very simple database I have now (i.e. only I can edit it via PHPMyAdmin), and then if you write your own mod database all you'd need to do is make a script that generates an XML sheet detailing each of the mods, and we're away. So it looks like I can continue working, and then it ought to be fairly easy to add any online catalogue you might make right into the program, making it accessible from a webpage and `directly` from the user's computer. The main potential snafu here would come from the updating side of the program - I don't know what you are planning when it comes to that, but there would of course need to be some way in which the mod manager can tell what's been updated.
That is to say, I think I shall try to make this even with the current programs in existance.
____________
|
| |
|
|
