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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Modders Workshop > Thread: Balance Mod for ToE - post your opinions here
Thread: Balance Mod for ToE - post your opinions here This thread is 5 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT»
okrane
okrane


Famous Hero
posted February 19, 2008 05:10 PM

Editing your remarks:

Quote:
Cerberus
I'd think cursing attack is too much, the cerberi don't need buffing. Maybe -1 min damage or initiative to the firebreathers? It's really a fine line, firebreath is not easy to balance.
Agreed. It's hard to balance it, but as it is it's no good.


Nightmare and Hell Stalion
Yes but -3 morale aura can be really good. Unless the map is loaded with artifacts and opponent ends up having 7 morale..
Well, as the aura affects only creatures adjacent to the Nightmare, it's a hit or miss thing. The unit will hardly ever lose its turn over this, as most armies start with 3 morale, and after that it can kill the nightmare(they're not what I would call durable) or move away so that the penalty is lost. The Hell Stalion otoh, is much better, as with its high init it can cripple the enemy first, and when his turn comes up, the remains die from the searing aura.

Pit Lord
Not weak but not on par with pit spawns. I'd give them back their HoF mana or boost initiative. +1 speed could also work.
+1 speed, +1 init +10 mana would it do?

Arch Demon
Seriously their stats sabotage their abilty, bad planning. Yes teleport other is good but not a justification for this. +1 speed.
Totaly Agree. On a side note, devils have a handicap in speed, it should be buffed alltogether.

Spectre
Mana stealing does compensate because in large battles you are better off shooting, not casting.
In a big battle, stealing 10 mana and reviving 10 specters is not that great anyway...

Banshee
I'd go for boosted special. Their wail is great fun but totally useless at the moment.
It can work

Sprite
Yes but they also have cleansing. Big deal, use those early, dryads later. They are not useless as others.
I guess you're right. I find myself using them early game and retraining them later, so they fine.

Blood Witch
True but on the other hand they are harder to kill.
For midgame figths yes, but as early and mid, you use furies to creep, there's a weak chance, you'll go back to retrain them. End game they just die from one hit, both.

Brisk Raider
His special should be 50% and even then I would not pick him too often.
Hard to mod this guy. Maybe an extra point in init or some more defense?

Shadow Matriarch
Not worthless at all. If they play first they can hit hunters badly.
Yes. But she won't act before Arcane Archers. And even if she does, a Confusion from, the Mistress can be same as good.

Battle Mage
Nope, just better for later.
Ok

Titan and Storm Titan
Actually it's a decent choice. Hasted, fast units act more often in the cloud so it hurts more than lightning overall. If the units do get out they have wasted a turn and you don't care because it's the wizard who does most.
Well, who uses those specials anyway? They're better off attacking, and they have exactly the same stats.

Stone Defenders
I don't see why they are bad.
Because the moment you moved them they become much weaker than the others. Giving them Take Roots would make them defensive and mobile at the same time.

Rune Priest/Patriarchs
Absolutely not. The choice of firewall or two fireballs makes a difference.
ok. I don't use them much anyway.

Lava Dragon
No they are pretty viable.
Like when?




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mamgaeater
mamgaeater


Legendary Hero
Shroud, Flying, Trample, Haste
posted February 19, 2008 05:42 PM
Edited by mamgaeater at 17:46, 19 Feb 2008.

I beleive that brisk raiders don't need to be buffed.
their special can deal loads of damage if you plan your moves.
grim raiders however  their special is not very useful as raiders often fall prey to spells and attacks. better to do more damage when you go down than to set up a trap that is very fragile.
edit: the lava dragon is a fair choice compared to magmas. Rune of charge and an attack on shooters can be devastating 10 dmg per drag  is also pretty strong. just 10 drags do 300 possible dmg to two targets over 3 turns. and if used on a shooter that can do bad damage seeing as they have to move them and miss a shot or stay in and take dmg.
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okrane
okrane


Famous Hero
posted February 19, 2008 06:08 PM
Edited by okrane at 18:10, 19 Feb 2008.

10 drags will deal 1500+ damage to low level archers in one hit. so 300 is really low...

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mamgaeater
mamgaeater


Legendary Hero
Shroud, Flying, Trample, Haste
posted February 19, 2008 06:12 PM

300 is 20% of 1500 making 1800 dmg. and it can affect more than one target making 3600 dmg.a 20% increase is massive.also the firewall isn't affected by defence i beleive.
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okrane
okrane


Famous Hero
posted February 19, 2008 06:16 PM
Edited by okrane at 18:20, 19 Feb 2008.

Nope. Actually 300 is considered if taking into account all 3 turns.

The next turn the drag can hit again. So it's more like 300 compared to 4500... less than 10%.

And for this you lose a lot of defense and magma shield which is just sweet.

Another way to look at this is: The Dragon has 40-50 Damage. So an addition of 10 would be around 20% boost. BUT this damage is not affected by the attack attribute. And as the Magmas are lvl 7s with big attack their damage will always be multiplied. So it is really low. Not to mention that it can be really easily nulified by moving, in the case of non archer creatures.

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mamgaeater
mamgaeater


Legendary Hero
Shroud, Flying, Trample, Haste
posted February 19, 2008 07:18 PM

yes but the dragon casts this everytime it attacks leading to 3 firewalls of a maximum of 1800 dmg each which is over 1/3 a minimum of 300-600 damage each depending on your planning and strategy.
600/4500 is not less than 10% if you plan it correctly the lava dragon is devastating. not to mention that it is deadly agaisnt archers.
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okrane
okrane


Famous Hero
posted February 19, 2008 07:23 PM

Some replays where you used this effectively and I'll believe you.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted February 19, 2008 07:25 PM

Err I have never seen that much deadliness to be frank
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mamgaeater
mamgaeater


Legendary Hero
Shroud, Flying, Trample, Haste
posted February 19, 2008 07:27 PM

errr ya got me there i don't know how to get a replay onto hc.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted February 19, 2008 08:39 PM

Just upload it somewhere, google is your friend.
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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted February 19, 2008 09:34 PM

Cerberus
they seem good for me, they deal more damages, and they won't burn your own units (I guess the firebreather can do that)


Nightmare and Hell Stalion
the seering aura seem really strong

Pit Lord
hum I don't know, they both have some quite cool abilities at the beginning of a game which become less impressive at the end.

Arch Demon
don't know, I think its ability is probably easier to use than the archdevil's one.

Spectre
both are very annoying. i don't see the problem.

Banshee
I don't know how powerful they are yet. on the paper it doesn't seem bad.

Sprite
the resurrect treants ability seem better

Blood Witch
they are not bad, but too similar in use to the other one.

Brisk Raider
I love that unit, multi strikes without any retaliation.

Shadow Matriarch
a shooter vs a melee unit, it's a pretty interesting choice it seems.

Battle Mage
the +2 att just seem too few compared to all the spells of the archmage (especially +9 attack)

Titan and Storm Titan
I don't know, but I guess they play almost the same.

Stone Defenders
it seems good, protective units don't move that much usually.

Rune Priest/Patriarchs
that choice seems interesting enough.

Lava Dragon
they seem crappy compared to the magma dragon.
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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted February 19, 2008 09:43 PM

I think people miss the point with the Lava Dragon: The idea with the Fire Wall is probably not to do major damage as such. Choosing the Lava Dragon should be a purely tactical choice, because the Firewall will disable archers by prompting them to move rather than staying in the wall.

I think they work pretty well as such. I would give them 1 point more of Initiative, though - that would make the more offensive aspect of this choice more apparent.
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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted February 19, 2008 10:50 PM

yeah, but what's a +10 damages compared to the insanely powerful magma shield? I don't understand why they don't have the fire shield since fire dragons which are weaker have it.
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mamgaeater
mamgaeater


Legendary Hero
Shroud, Flying, Trample, Haste
posted February 19, 2008 11:35 PM
Edited by mamgaeater at 23:38, 19 Feb 2008.

its ten damage per drag for 3 turns. like i said over 3 turns a maximum of 600 dmg could be added.
And lava dragons are best used on archers because as most people know melee units can move and attack. archers have to either stay in and take dmg or move out and waste a turn.
Magma sheild is quite strong but it is a defensive vs offensive choice. one is vunerable to archers and the other excells at destroying them.
as for fire sheild. it is again a balancing issue. lava drags would be balanced and i beleive they were made for offesnes look they have  a damage increase MAN...
[sarcasm] i think peasants should have liquid flame breath cuz they aren't very useful compared to brutes or conscripts[/sarcasm]
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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted February 20, 2008 07:42 AM


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Lesij
Lesij


Famous Hero
posted February 20, 2008 09:18 AM

About Pit Lord.
He is quite good when you have Vermins. I think it was made on purpose...

Oh, and by the way, what about letting dudes from UBI to know about how imbalanced is the game right now? Why shouldn't we write a petition?

What's more:
You forgot about Maulers and Earth Daughters (+ Cleaasining for them on Exp. Level) and about Executioners (+3-+5 to life... Or maybe give them that funny battlerage!)

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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted February 20, 2008 01:41 PM

how are the lava dragon better against shooters? they are as slow as the magma dragons, they have less HPs and defenses, so they get killed more easily by shooters.
also, once a shooter is engaged in melee, whether he is in a firewall or not won't change much thing, since he can't shoot anyway.
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okrane
okrane


Famous Hero
posted February 20, 2008 02:47 PM

He's talking in the absurd and rare case where you would use your firebreath to attack them.

Anyway, as pro players don't post in this thread, I think it becomes pointless...

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mamgaeater
mamgaeater


Legendary Hero
Shroud, Flying, Trample, Haste
posted February 20, 2008 03:02 PM
Edited by mamgaeater at 15:29, 20 Feb 2008.

rune of charge. with a rune of charge lava's can attack the other side in one turn (more if there are obstacles)
in the event of the archer in melee. good point but the flame breath can affect it without being adjacent.
as for proness. I may not be THE best but i know what i talk about.
as for a rare and absurd circumstance...

it is a measly 5 defense difference. not that big when you have +20 defence.
edit: can't post anymore for now.
edit:@elvin ya got me there... nothing much can be done about that but your opponent would need tactics (tactics is a pretty good choice anyway).  

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted February 20, 2008 03:23 PM

That's not measly at all.. The idea is that you miss on defense and fireshield to get +15 damage(if you count the mini firewall). Btw I forget, if a large unit is standing on two of those do they get 20 damage?
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