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| Thread: More Sylvan SillyNess!! |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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the_teacher
Supreme Hero
Talk to the hand!
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posted May 15, 2008 06:51 PM |
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what u see on clan rankings is not picturing the power of sylvan very accurate, because, at least for my part, 95% of games played for clans were random and 80% of them i got a different race. i know some other who also like to embrace the fate and play random, and this is different from the last season, where what u chose is what u played , and indeed necro ruled because of a stupid necromancy (original version , especially).
i repeat for thousand time, in tote ANY race can win over any other, there is no matchup like x vs y with 100% certain outcome, i wont list the many factors that add to the result.
and an advice, dont panic when u see a new strategy, there is always, but ALWAYS, a counter for it, else, if game wont surprise u with anything new, it will become a boring pattern.
player imagination must take advantage of game posibilities, in a fair way ofc, and trust me, there are alot. banning, restrictions will make game narrower, predictable, 1 way eventually. whats the fun then? i.e u fight an utopia which is one of the most attractive moments in a game. what makes it that way? the unexpected result, the bonus. THE UNKNOWN YET REWARD! if u control anything, if u forsee anything whats the fun in it? no reason to play anymore.
same goes for real life , no feelings, no impulses, no anger, no pain = robots = life color is grey (if u lucky). no reason to live then.
enjoy the game and prey to see something new with every single match. it Doesnt matter u win or lose, u DISCOVER, else is wasted time.
have a nice day
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The_Gootch
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
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posted May 15, 2008 06:56 PM |
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The more I think about it the more counters become available.
You mention a 105 defense with unlimited retaliation. Treants aren't armored though. Master of Fire will kill their defense. While a 52 or 53 defense is high, it is not insurmountable.
Instead of Harpooners, who I'm going to assume cannot break roots, you can use Skirmishers to kill the initiative of the Treants. Soldier's Luck will help to ensure crippling strikes. This will almost eliminate the effectiveness of Regeneration. Rune of Magic Control will also break it.
As for unlimited retaliations, you can improve the survivability of your troops using Runes of Etherealness and Thunderclap with Greater Rune while you whittle down the Treants. Once you've exhausted those runes, switch to Berserk, Battlerage, and Dragonform.
As for the obscene spellpower of the new druids can provide, they can only provide it so long as they're alive. Kill them and you've solved that issue.
Hmm, Force Arrow for me isn't as big a deal as the Arcanes being able to ignore half of enemy defense. These guys are seriously imba.
While I will agree Sylvan is one of the top dog factions, the dwarves match up very well against them. They do have the tools to counter Sylvan's most effective weapons.
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Strawdozz
Hired Hero
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posted May 15, 2008 08:37 PM |
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Hmmm.. try to beat Sylvan with Haven. Tough thing, they are better in every possible sense.
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Straw
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Strider_HL
Famous Hero
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posted May 15, 2008 10:22 PM |
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Quote:
i repeat for thousand time, in tote ANY race can win over any other, there is no matchup like x vs y with 100% certain outcome, i wont list the many factors that add to the result.
So true. Besides, relying on my experience, I'd say that orcs and dwarves have especially good chances... and dark does wonders as well. In general, imo sylvan is good, solid faction but in no way overpowered 
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The_Gootch
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
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posted May 15, 2008 11:18 PM |
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Sylvan matches up very well with Haven, agreed. I dunno, Defense, Divine Guidance, and hope the Cyrstal Dragon doesn't get a max breath attack on me seems to be a good start.
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sq79
Famous Hero
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posted May 16, 2008 02:30 AM |
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Can't believe Dwarfs can lose to sylvan in such a late game 
Its not silly, it might just be the only solution for sylvan against fortress in end game.
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted May 16, 2008 02:57 AM |
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Edited by Jinxer at 03:31, 16 May 2008.
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Quote:
there is always, but ALWAYS, a counter for it ------ banning, restrictions will make game narrower, predictable, 1 way eventually. whats the fun then?
Well you claim there is a Counter for EVERYTHING! Well you mean ofcourse everything Except Rune of Charge?!?! Since there is a counter for everything and banning stuff makes game narrower... why ban Rune of Charge?  Just figure a way to counter it.
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the_teacher
Supreme Hero
Talk to the hand!
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posted May 16, 2008 11:23 AM |
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because rune of charge at the time being in its current state is a failure in terms of any strategy or tactic possible.
its the same with the special pack composed by tactics , haven , sirr mullich, boots of speed and mass haste back in h3. its not a skill, not a perk, not an ability its just a lame mass teleport. we talked alot about that subject and i thought u agreed that increasing speed by 2 upon activation it is more than decent (still very powerful). it's more poweerful than rune of ressurect imo, being level 1, especially with big stacks. i consider it a bug. i like dwarves , maybe more than u, but this rune is outta place. i agree with it using in creeping,it resembles with stalkers tactic a bit, but in big fight where maybe i sacrifice a ring of 10% and a dragon amulet, just to wear a unrepentent ring and amulet of necromancy which give me nothing beside that bonus, for reducing their speed by a BLOODY 1(one), they come up with at least +4 out of nowhere. if u played or saw h5 beta with that initial small battlefield youll be better understood why i pledge so loud against the present state of that rune. 1 tile more or less of the battlefield can change the game completelly, affecting entire strategy for all races either improves balance or turns it to a disaster , then waht about 4 extra tiles or more?
similar with slow hydras and killing 1000 of them with 1 sprite or poison back in h4. its a failure from the tactic point of view.
i'm for a tweaking of it the way i mentioned before and then it will be fine, but its not acceptable , in my oppinion, as it is now.
have a nice day
P.S. dotn worry, dwarves has the best survivability even without that rune in pvp. actually they are too busy somehow and undecided in front of so many posibilities (runes )
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valkyrica
Supreme Hero
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posted May 16, 2008 05:16 PM |
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Fear the power of the new sylvan unit ! Another anti-Jinxer trick Ubi pulled out of their sleeve.
When will the injustice end ?!
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I'm Guybrush Threepwood, mighty pirate
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zamrai
Adventuring Hero
Moonlight Melody
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posted May 16, 2008 05:40 PM |
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Is that the new tier 7 creature of Sylvan?
Looks scary, I wonder about it's stats - must be terribly overpowered 
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted May 16, 2008 08:56 PM |
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Edited by Jinxer at 20:59, 16 May 2008.
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I guess this is where I get confused... you have debated with me for hours that you fee Staff and RING should not be banned cause they dont unbalance things... And at same time you argue that Rune of Charge is silly and ruins a game.....
So explain how it is NOT acceptable for all my units to move those extra tiles to make it accross field in 1 move... when my opponent just had all 7 units all go before mine...and likely will for remainder of battle. It seems to me that Rune of Charge is that So called Counter for a sickly high initiative... if my opponent gets to move 7 units to my 1... and then when it becomes my turn I cannot reach the arcanes... I should just have to run into middle of field and then next round you move all 7 units to my one...?? You claim that 1 tile can make a differnece!!! And you dont think that 1 player getting to move all there unit 2 and 3 times to my 1 time is equally unbalancing...??
I can respect your opinon Teacher...and will play all our games withOUT rune of charge... But... you think some things about game are silly and I think some things about game are silly.. Just try and understand that with the same passion that you deep down believe that Rune of Charge has no place... I personlly feel that Both Ring and Staff being on map at same time are EQUALLY wrong. Actually, I think BOTH should be banned... cause even having 1 can unbalance the initaitve... but am always willing to compromise
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FoolishMan
Known Hero
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posted May 17, 2008 05:17 PM |
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banning rune of charge is great you can have no fear that dwarf can reach you in the first turn , you can even play sometimes 2 times before them and after that you can run away from battlefield without many losses ( save your money for that)and than do that tactics few times and you win
so dwarves are perfect race to abuse hit and run
try it it's very nice strategy espetialy if you have flaming arrows)
and yeah creeping with dwarf without it is probably the hardest of any faction and there is a solid chance you won't get it even if it's not banned
about sylvan sillyness they are pretty easy to play(espetialy if you start with ossir) the have great initiative and speed also about that new strategy really didn't know it was possible before ,however they are surely not unbeatable but will always be very hard opponent unlike dwarves or many other factions (necro,demons,haven)that on some maps just don't have much chance
larry fanoga
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Fraudatio
Famous Hero
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posted May 18, 2008 01:09 AM |
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ON this I am 100 % with you Jinxer, ring of speed etc are FAR more crucial, and fortress is one of the hardest races to creep with on RatRace. I have two running games with Helmar vs Ylthin/Ossir at the moment, and rune of ch disable doesnt make it more even..
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the_teacher
Supreme Hero
Talk to the hand!
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posted May 18, 2008 01:58 AM |
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frau, dwarf cannot lose on RR, it simpossible, only if u dismmis half of army and go into battle naked, regardless the banned charge rune . but jinxer was talking about Battlezone, where things are going worse, dwaves with 2 towns = 2mage guilds/runic guilds, knowing all the runes possible and snowload of epics and cash to recruit a huge 2 times RESSURECTABLE army.
if dwarf is king on RR , on BZ is emperror. and , on a side note, dwarves are using rune of charge in creeping when ther is no need, because when it really helps in very early game, there is no army to take advantage of it or resources are too precious. the point is that rune creates imbalances when huge stacks are on the field where every stack blow is deadly. unlike fighting with 3 bears vs 5 dancers.
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phoenixreborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted May 18, 2008 04:32 AM |
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Quote:
the point is that rune creates imbalances when huge stacks are on the field where every stack blow is deadly. unlike fighting with 3 bears vs 5 dancers.
So is that any different than a first turn crystal dragon strike with huge armies that hits 4 stacks? Why ban one and not the other?
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infinitus
Supreme Hero
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posted May 18, 2008 06:56 AM |
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Take tactics and storm wind from light magic and you are safe from crystal dragons ....
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Nothing's impossible
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=loCSLJ6IodY
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted May 18, 2008 09:21 PM |
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Quote:
2 towns = 2mage guilds/runic guilds, knowing all the runes possible
Since we are having a nice little refreshing debate here.... maybe someone could explain to me... why they think its soo horrible for Fortress to have access to ALL there runes that are possible?? Doesnt Sylvan have access to all 3 favorite enemies? etc etc.... Runes are Fortress special ability... same as Acadamy can build artifacts on all there army and sylvan can make 3 favortie enemies etc... so why is it bad for ALL the runes to be available... Seems to me that just opens up all the possible strategies and available counters to all the strategies in this game. I admit that when Fortress first came out ... it was the KING... but after TOTE... everyone else got stronger and Fortress got nothing.. So Fortress is now even with everyone ( except Orcs and Sylvan - they are both silly now ) So I think the Fortress phobia should calm down now..
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Elit
Famous Hero
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posted May 19, 2008 06:49 AM |
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posted April 19, 2008 12:40 PM
"and rune of charge is overpowered in my eyes. since its the only one thing disabled i dont think will cripple dwarf too much."
I notice insatiable coment about disable on all her maps rune of charge. I dont think its good idea. Fortres are very slow race. His units are defensive and make low dmg. When you remove rune of charge they cant hit when get his 1st turn on battles...and they can get it after oponent act alredy x2. So for me its UNBALANCE fortres so much...and i'm ban him when play RR
Map maker have his view and power to make map how think for best...and players can choice his rules when play maps
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no need comment
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the_teacher
Supreme Hero
Talk to the hand!
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posted May 19, 2008 02:13 PM |
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is there ANY race that could hit opponent with most of its creatures first turn? except very few creatures in entire game? like 1-2 creature/race.
first round is mainly shooters round, rest is for later fight, unless you want to sacrifice the stack moving it in the middle of the storm. how can u complain about fortress not reaching the opponent first round when they have same amount, if not more than other races, of creatures that CAN make damage first round : skirmishers, patriarchs (2 target or more) and insanely strong thunder/flame lords (1 or many targets) which, on top of that, have the opportunity to choose range/melee. REACH=HIT, not sightseeing tour. and thats a defensive race pff...
"dwarf has no other choice but to sit and wait to be striken and killed by enemy first round". allow me at least to smile here.
even tho i repeat it loud and clear that the game is balanced beyond my expectations and im very satisfied with its current state.
ofc, among the Minor things that must be tweaked, rune of charge has its place. indeed runes are racial skill, as jinxer said, is the particularity which defines the race, but the comparison with rain of arrows in terms of equivalence is ridiculous.
when a rune of berserk or battle rage of a SINGLE stack can do more damage without spending hero's turn than ranger himslef with all imbue, count that Bonus for ALL 7 stacks of midgets using powerups summed up with THE HERO mass destruction.
do you think there is a matchup? i dont say there is no compensation with rest of sylvan army, but when make a statement like: x Vs. y, pls be rational, and come with reasonable arguments.
enough with this debate, jinxer should take care of customers too, and using scissors while tying on forums might be pretty dangerous and we dont need a REAL sequal for texas: chainsaw massacre .
to end up the discussion more on dwarves fans frequency, i'd change , besides the rune of charge (+2 speed) , the refresh rune perk, increasing its power a bit: it spends a full hero turn, but it allows him to CHOOSE which rune to refresh on a specific stack, to be used again one time at a triple cost.
have a nice day
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gmmari
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 19, 2008 02:15 PM |
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Being realistic the high population and the great defence and rune of resurrection compensate the slow speed of dwarf
There so need for a dwarf to attack at first strike the enemy because the enemy will kill an amount of creature not relevant in the first strike.
Why dwarf become so strong in late combat?
All rune makes a difference and the high defence and it's not important that they give low damage if you kill 10 defender each attack..anyway in 2 or 3 attack a good dwarf will demolish you when he learn some rune and build a decent army.
Ban also rune of resuction not anly rune of charge
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