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| Thread: Number Sphere |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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IYY
Responsible
Supreme Hero
REDACTED
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posted October 08, 2003 03:53 AM |
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Edited By: IYY on 7 Oct 2003
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Poll Question:
Number Sphere
Two grade 12 calculus students being bored in class and inventing a new theorem. Well, insane as it may be, have fun laughing at our madness:
Zero is a number where the number line changes from negative to positive (or vice versa). What is, then, infinity? Could it be the point where the positive numbers change back to negative? This means that instead of a number line we have a number circle, where 0 is on one end and infinity (positive and negative infinity is the same point in this case, just as -0 and +0 is the same point) is on the other. All negative numbers are on one half of this circle, and all positive numbers are on another. When adding two numbers on a number line, you are simply adding the distances between the numbers and 0. This means that infinity plus infinity is 0 - because you make a complete loop around the circumference of the circle and end up with 0 displacement (where you started). Infinity - infinity is 0. Infinity + N (where n is any number) is undefined but negative (it's clearly not infinity because you can see that we moved along the circle and are no longer at infinity).
Applying this little idea to real life, it would mean that if you go over the edge of the universe, you just come back from the other side.
(edit: the idea of a sphere comes from including complex numbers, thus adding a new dimention and making it 3D from 2D (just like the number line becomes a number plane when you include complex numbers))
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blu
Hired Hero
The Ultimate Party-Pooper
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posted October 08, 2003 04:02 AM |
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Heres why your wrong because as soon as you start on the positive or negative side, you'll get back to 0
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One time I hurt sat but down really fast. Now my butt down hurts when I say down.
I think im under the influence...
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IYY
Responsible
Supreme Hero
REDACTED
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posted October 08, 2003 04:17 AM |
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Yes. Anything wrong with that? The world is round, why can't the number line be? Plus, you seem to be confident that you would ever -get- to 0. This is not true because you would never actually -get- to infinity.
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted October 09, 2003 12:07 AM |
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<~Infinate --- 0--- Infinate~>
Thanks IYY I've found a theory, the opposite of zero, to be defined properly is impossible. As it would be all of nothing, and all of everything.
Or plainly everything, everything. Meaning all the nothing is still there.
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What are you up to
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted October 09, 2003 02:21 AM |
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after somethinking
im not tryin to hurt anyone!
0 = not
because anything less is less, and eveything more is more.
infinity - is math that leads to infanint nothing
infinity + is math that leads to infanite everything
if you have everything, there is nothing
you canot have "nothing" if there is, no thing, then nothing it self is one thing.
if there is nothing, than there is no anything which means there is no everything, unless everything is nothing.
if you put everything together, there is what is not a part of everything, which is = to nothing.
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What are you up to
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IYY
Responsible
Supreme Hero
REDACTED
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posted October 10, 2003 02:14 AM |
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Quote:
infinity - is math that leads to infanint nothing
Not quite. We have 0 to represent nothing. -ve infinity cannot be used to explain RL objects or mass. It can be used to represent displacement in the real world, and can be used in maths and sciences. If my insane little idea is correct (which I very much doubt, it's just fun to think about) then if you keep going in a straight line in the universe, you will end up exactly where you started (but this will never happen because to do so you would have to travel an infinite distance - not something that we can do).
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valkyrica
Supreme Hero
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posted October 10, 2003 03:00 AM |
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if you're right, you've discovered the secret of time travel, if time is like universe, a circle, the you should be able to move withing that circle ... and the reincarnations theory, life being a circle/sphere when we die, we actually get born .
But you are wrong and i'm gonna tell you why : let's have an example : say you have your circle made up of integers, not including other kind of numbers yet, we don't want to make it too complex. so on this circle you have 0 as a starting point and +1 on the right side of circle and -1 on the left one. This is all according to your theory, now ... we know that the distance between these 2 numbers is +1 - (-1) which is 2, but in a circle it's really not 2, because the line which will unite -1 and +1 in the circle will be the 3rd line of a triangle with 2 equal lines valued at 1(from 0 to +1 and from -1 to 0), and that 3rd line (distance between -1 and +1) is less than 2 (if it were 2 that would mean that the triangle is really a line, so your circle becomes a line now)! Hope i cleared everything with this ! sorry to spoil your fun.
and if we are on this subject, i made one theory like that 3 years ago, in 12th grade( dunno if i was the first one to do it tho  ), it's about pithagorean numbers : you know that a² + b² = c².
from that one we get that a² = 2b + 1 . can anyone tell me why we get that ?!
i will explain if nobody knows
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I'm Guybrush Threepwood, mighty pirate
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Dingo
Responsible
Legendary Hero
God of Dark SPAM
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posted October 10, 2003 03:16 AM |
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IYY
Responsible
Supreme Hero
REDACTED
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posted October 10, 2003 04:33 AM |
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Interesting. But not exactly the same. Thing is, that my sphere has the circumference of 2*infinity, meaning that it is infinite in size and if applied to the real world you will never be -able- to make a trip around it, returning from the other side. They say that the universe is quite finite, so that the points are not 0 and infinity, but 0 and some very large distance.
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valkyrica
Supreme Hero
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posted October 10, 2003 04:38 AM |
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iyy ... so ? is that a good reason for you being wrong or no ?!
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I'm Guybrush Threepwood, mighty pirate
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valkyrica
Supreme Hero
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posted October 10, 2003 04:42 AM |
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oh, and 2* infinity = infinity, you cannot play with things you can't control ... which at the moment none of us can.
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I'm Guybrush Threepwood, mighty pirate
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted October 10, 2003 05:48 AM |
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infinity as simply a number, is still number counting themselves.
Its impossible to stop being able to add numbers.
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IYY
Responsible
Supreme Hero
REDACTED
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posted October 10, 2003 09:38 PM |
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Edited By: IYY on 10 Oct 2003
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Quote:
But you are wrong and i'm gonna tell you why : let's have an example : say you have your circle made up of integers, not including other kind of numbers yet, we don't want to make it too complex. so on this circle you have 0 as a starting point and +1 on the right side of circle and -1 on the left one. This is all according to your theory, now ... we know that the distance between these 2 numbers is +1 - (-1) which is 2, but in a circle it's really not 2, because the line which will unite -1 and +1 in the circle will be the 3rd line of a triangle with 2 equal lines valued at 1(from 0 to +1 and from -1 to 0), and that 3rd line (distance between -1 and +1) is less than 2 (if it were 2 that would mean that the triangle is really a line, so your circle becomes a line now)! Hope i cleared everything with this ! sorry to spoil your fun.
I suppose I didn't clarify something. The distance we are taking is taken along the circumference of the circle, I believe it is called the arcdistance - or the length of the arc joining the two points where the radius is the radius of the circle. So no, you did not prove me wrong.
Quote:
oh, and 2* infinity = infinity, you cannot play with things you can't control ... which at the moment none of us can.
First of all: 2 * infinity may be infinity, and it may also be undefined (as most believe today). Yet none of these were proven, and it's all 100% theoretical, so 2*infinity might as well be 0 (as it is on the number circle/sphere)
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Lith-Maethor
Honorable
Legendary Hero
paid in Coin and Cleavage
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posted October 10, 2003 10:44 PM |
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nice theory, but...
infinity +- n = infinity
infinity */ n = infinity
sounds more logical... especially since "infinity" is only something we came up with... not found in the real world (yet)
and i recall reading somewhere that someone actually proved time travel is not possible and never will be
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You are suffering from delusions of adequacy.
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Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
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posted October 10, 2003 11:12 PM |
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If it's possible, why don't we see people from the future walking around? Because they can't come here yet. Why? Because there's no receiver!
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Yolk and God bless.
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My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
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Draco
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted October 10, 2003 11:26 PM |
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i probably said this before but.
wook your a nut.
as for the time travel, its possible to go back in time by going faster then the speed of light, however you can never go faster then light because when you reach the speed of light you have a infinit volume. (the faster you go the bigger you get.) so at speed of light you would be everywhere. once you figure out how to go faster then light then you can consider time-travel
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Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
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posted October 10, 2003 11:32 PM |
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Yolk and God bless.
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My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
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Lith-Maethor
Honorable
Legendary Hero
paid in Coin and Cleavage
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posted October 10, 2003 11:37 PM |
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draco...
if i'm not mistaken, some scientists a few months ago managed to accelerate a particle or something beyond the speed of light, the result was that it seemingly entered the container before it was fully out of it
if anybody can find the details of the experiment, it would shed some light on this...
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You are suffering from delusions of adequacy.
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silx87
Supreme Hero
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posted October 10, 2003 11:38 PM |
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no,I'd say
infinity +- infinity = infinity
then it would make sense if
infinity */ infinity = 0
anyway,this is just mah opinion...
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IYY
Responsible
Supreme Hero
REDACTED
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posted October 10, 2003 11:52 PM |
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Hey, people are posting in this thread. Maybe I should have placed it in the tavern?
Anyway:
Quote:
as for the time travel, its possible to go back in time by going faster then the speed of light, however you can never go faster then light because when you reach the speed of light you have a infinit volume. (the faster you go the bigger you get.) so at speed of light you would be everywhere. once you figure out how to go faster then light then you can consider time-travel
Sorry, but by going faster than the speed of light you go to the future, not the past. This was proven by Einstein with his relativity theory and twin paradox. However, the readings about time travel being impossible are also outdated. Today many scientists believe that time travel may well be possible through parallel universes and wormholes. Articles about this appear in many science magazines and the chance that we will travel back in time in the not-quite-so-distant future is not as small as you think.
Quote:
infinity +- n = infinity
infinity */ n = infinity
Agree about the addition (and this works just as well on the number circle) But IMO, multiplication in regards to infinity is completly impossible. Does not mean anything. And I would write the solution as DNE (does not exist).
Quote:
infinity +- infinity = infinity
then it would make sense if
infinity */ infinity = 0
Once again, don't try to do any division using infinity like that. In fact, if you do this, you may come up with a bunch of crazy (and incorrect) math proofs (they are called false proofs). You can, for example, prove that 1+1=1 or that 1=0 or 1=2. I actually accidently got to the answer 1=0 when trying to examine the effects of n^(1/infinity) or "the infinitith root of n". One advice: don't go there.
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