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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted October 13, 2003 04:22 AM |
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Poll Question:
War or peace?
Scale of 1-5
1 being, your like hitler mindsetted in your own way/ways
5 being you think humans should get along
You, whereever you are. Whatever country, and cultural background.. Would you rather all humans just live peacfully, trying to make the world better? Or would you rather terrorism, and politics, and super powers, and strives to become supre powers ect..
Wouldnt each of us, the humans on earth rather peace??
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BoogieMan
Famous Hero
The John of Spades
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posted October 13, 2003 08:14 AM |
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I would desire the utopic no. 5, but I know that the best we can achieve is no. 4, and only in the aftermath of an event triggered by no. 1.
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The BoogieMan wrote ... and saw that it was good.
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted October 13, 2003 08:22 AM |
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So simply to try and biring pure world peace, where humans are of peace and humanity for all their other ppl in earth, is to end in war?? I think not!
I know, that if enough ppl in the world rose up to make a supreme difference there are several ways to doing so. Its fragile in the making, but aslong as ideals wen to all human kind, we would all try to make a difference, instead of trying eachother.
I'm working on this side.. Its natrual that I do so. It's nearly gods work, but of only men & women trying to help life go on as we know it.
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What are you up to
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BoogieMan
Famous Hero
The John of Spades
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posted October 13, 2003 01:53 PM |
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Quote:
So simply to try and bring pure world peace, where humans are of peace and humanity for all their other ppl in earth, is to end in war?? I think not!
No, Celfious, not in war, but in utter failure. That's why I said no. 5 is utopic. It will never be achieved. What I did say is that no. 4 might be possible. But I believe that as long as there are huge political/economical interests in stake, a massive reform is impossible. Therefore, the only event that would create the proper environment for deep reforming would have to be something as big as another world war, or say ... aliens invading.
Quote:
I know, that if enough ppl in the world rose up to make a supreme difference there are several ways to doing so. Its fragile in the making, but aslong as ideals wen to all human kind, we would all try to make a difference, instead of trying eachother.
What you're talking about is a world wide revolution. Think of this:
1. What would bring all these people together? (You might say ideals, true.)
2. How long do ideals last, Celf? How long until greed and corruption take over again?
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The BoogieMan wrote ... and saw that it was good.
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted October 13, 2003 02:44 PM |
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Human nature means war and conflict, it's part of how we grow, striving to be better than the others, sometimes in war our best achievements come to the fore. Having said that I think in these days we should strive to only fight necessary wars, and in as bloodless a way as possible, but I think also that utopia would also lead to something of a stagnation of our development.
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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Peacemaker
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
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posted October 13, 2003 05:38 PM |
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Do you really think the end of warfare would lead to a stagnation of our development? Or are you thinking perhaps about the process of strife in general? If so, don't you think that other forms of huan trials suffice as a challenge without having to continue threading intentional violence into the process?
Personally I think the next evolutionary step is a spiritual one. On the broad scheme to overcome warfare as a method for resolution; on the personal level to find things other than violence to make us all still feel alive.
Given the level of sophistication in our war technology and the complexity of our global politics, I further suggest that this evolutionary step is becoming increasingly urgent, and truly may determine the survival of humanity.
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I have menopause and a handgun. Any questions?
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BoogieMan
Famous Hero
The John of Spades
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posted October 13, 2003 08:12 PM |
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Quote:
Personally I think the next evolutionary step is a spiritual one. On the broad scheme to overcome warfare as a method for resolution; on the personal level to find things other than violence to make us all still feel alive.
I doubt humanity would take a turn for spirituality on its own, Peacemaker. That's why I'm advancing the "trigger theory". I believe that humanity doesn't have the moral strength to push forward on the spiritual scale all by itself.
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The BoogieMan wrote ... and saw that it was good.
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chosen0ne
Hired Hero
Nightmare Beyond Comprehension
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posted October 13, 2003 10:47 PM |
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peace or war idont care as long as it isn't near me.
i like the thought of peace but i support those who have gone to war and sometimes i believe war is needed to bring peace.
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[url]http://www.romnation.net/battle/play.php?uid=2015[/url]
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted October 13, 2003 11:47 PM |
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PM: I read an interesting set of books on an alien invasion of Earth during the second world war. Basically this race from way over yonder galaxy wise sent a probe to Earth which arrived sometime in the middle of the Dark Ages. Upon it's return (guessing sometime near to the Industrial period), this space empire sent a conquest fleet to stamp out the humans here and convert the world to a client world.
Now here's the crunch, the alien species had a totally united planet, and totally united behind them 2 other client planets they had already subjugated. Because of their lack of drive coming from a lack of competition amongst themselves, a lack of questioning due to their omnipotent Emprorer and Hierarchy, a lack of progress from their lack of need for better technology and so on, in the 1000 or so years between the probe and the fleet arriving, "the race" had developed not one iota. They arrived in human space as they left, technology of the equivalent of say 2200 AD in our terms, but limited in numbers due to the nature of the enemy.
Trouble was, the fighting, quarrelsome humans HAD grown and developed and when the race hit earth, the humans formed a temporary alliance and fought back. Stunned the race panic, unable to use much of their weaponry due to their need to colonise they are forced to settle for what land they can take (mostly at the expense of China, Africa and the British Empire).
So.... what I mean is that to evolve as humans and continue to progress we simply need to have a reason to do so. Left alone to simply blunder across progress at a leisurely pace leads to stagnation. Given a proverbial kick up the backside, and the resource management of warfare progress accelerates. What we need to do more than anything is discover new ways to give that kick not involving violence. I don't consider it to be so much about feeling alive, but to be about motivation and a catalyst.
So no, unfortunately at this time, I don't think humans have sufficent strifes to plauge them. Take for example a study done a while back that cost some fair amount of money here. It basically went all into some whacko scientist developing the perfect cup of tea.... and we paid him to do that. That is infinitely less likely in war, governments concentrate their countries into winning, and in doing so are allowed finally the resource management never permitted in peacetime.
I'm all for stopping uneeded wars and so on, but should we come to eradicate it completely before we discover the means to replace it as one of the major forces behind progress? I personally think not. In peace we become complacent, lazy and diverted by things such as the "perfect cuppa", unless we discover ways to avoid it then war and conflict will always be with us.
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted October 14, 2003 02:58 AM |
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i know everything cant be fixed by human means. but 5 is not utopic.
Simply, in schools teach kindergardeners, and younger kids. While teaching 6th grades the same thing, yet more like "you should've been told this before" ect, and adults should know they they need to be leading exmples. Some family is racist, but I never adopted it into myself.. But if families had, and taught humility then the world would be better.. (there is more to it, but its very possible)
This is from media, to the ppl. From congress men to the school childeren. Really important things like virtue and harmony, which are not talked about today!
Its not hard, and not impossible.
Generations to come, will not know a difference, but they can learn how they can make a difference.
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What are you up to
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Delfontes
Known Hero
Sorcerer Extraordinaire
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posted October 14, 2003 08:40 PM |
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4 for me I guess
A few fundamental changes in every human on earth would need to take place before peace could be even remotely possible.
It was expressed very well in a song once...
You'd need:
No possessions
No religion
No Countries
No greed or hunger
.....
Imagine there's no heaven,
It's easy if you try,
No hell below us,
Above us only sky,
Imagine all the people
living for today...
Imagine there's no countries,
It isnt hard to do,
Nothing to kill or die for,
No religion too,
Imagine all the people
living life in peace...
Imagine no possesions,
I wonder if you can,
No need for greed or hunger,
A brotherhood of man,
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...
You may say Im a dreamer,
but Im not the only one,
I hope some day you'll join us,
And the world will live as one.
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Do you think you can convince 6 billion people to do that without killing 5.5 billion of them?
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Romana
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Thx :D
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posted October 14, 2003 08:48 PM |
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personally ..I can't imagine a world without war. It's sad but true ( )
War comes from emotions, so to end all war it would mean to stop feeling a particular emotion ,be it envy, anger, rage or any other "negative" emotion.
There will always be a Yin and Yang
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The darkest skies show the brightest stars
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Delfontes
Known Hero
Sorcerer Extraordinaire
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posted October 14, 2003 09:01 PM |
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Lets not forget more "positive" emotions and desires.
Like life, liberty, and the persuit of happyness. That statement is a fundamental right set down in the US a long time ago....
I read a study recently that said that there are literally not enough resources in the world to support a middle class in China and India as extensive as that of Europe or the US.
What that means is if 2 billion more people each bought a car, a nice house, etc. The earth would quickly run out of fossil fuels, metal, and trees.
So on a planet that can't possibly make everyone "equal", how can it be peaceful. Can you blame people who see what you and I have on the 1 TV in their town and want it for themselves?
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Romana
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Thx :D
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posted October 14, 2003 09:32 PM |
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but without the negative can there be a positive? or would we all just be "neutral"
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The darkest skies show the brightest stars
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chosen0ne
Hired Hero
Nightmare Beyond Comprehension
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posted October 14, 2003 10:44 PM |
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Quote:
but without the negative can there be a positive? or would we all just be "neutral"
No there wont be positive because that term wont be need everything will be all good there wont be any negative for there to be a positve for. But if there were no negative we would all be screwed because their will be no power.
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[url]http://www.romnation.net/battle/play.php?uid=2015[/url]
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Peacemaker
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
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posted October 15, 2003 07:18 AM |
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I have more to say later on this topic, but for now I just want to point some things out.
First, there seems to be a presumption working here that war is the only negative we have working against us, so that if it were not to exist, we would have no other end of a spectrum against which to perceive and gage positives, and no power operating on the globe.
As for positives and negatives, I propose that our fixation on war as necessary to create a polar opposite of the positive aspect of "peace" is arbitrary. This is a little like framing health as the absence of death. We have plenty of negatives in the forms of other social illnesses at our fingertips to keep us alive and struggling without group-against-group mass-destruction to do this for us. In fact, we would not be engaging in group-against-group mass destruction in the first place if there were not some pretty profound underlying social ills at work there compelling us to do so.
As for war being the only source for power, the power structure of the globe is higly complex and operates on multiple levels using various forms of leverage -- warfare is only one of the most extreme last resorts. In most situations the power structure operates and interacts on these other levels without choosing this last resort.
I think the idea here is, while war will remain an option into the indefinite future to secure sovereignty, as nations we need to continue expanding our non-violent leverage and ability to negotiate in other, less violent ways, while learning to recognize the motivations behind our potential attackers and incorporate those motivations into both our strategy and our long-term plans as powers, in order to maximize that ability, thus making warfare an increasingly remote last resort.
Second, while I agree that the present complex world dynamic holds us in the position of continuing to have warfare in our paradigm, this is but a symptom of the real disease -- the trap of an ancient mindset borne primarily out of fight-or-flight hormones that keep us reacting the same way over and over. While I agree on the one hand that there is an element of inevitability to this reaction, on the other hand perpetually giving into that reaction as an excuse for not coming up with more creative solutions makes the continuing inevitability a self-fulfilling prophesy. This, I think, is at the heart of my point.
Third, while it is true that every human on earth could not possibly live with the standard lifestyle the average American now lives with without depleting the world's resources in a matter of weeks (i.e. two SUV's and a large woodframe house stuffed to the gills with consumer products we have allowed ourselves to become convinced through our glorious consumer capitalist brainwashing process that we need in order to be happy), this again presumes that these things represent the lifestyle we should all be aspiring to.
This is in my opinion at the root of the compatibility mindset problem here. The very presumption -- that the American lifestyle, ostentatious as it is, should be the one to which every human should aspire before (s)he feels satisfied with his/her surroundings -- drives many forces in global politics, not the least of which is the increasongly universal hatred of the American mindset. To my continuing astonishment, few people are aware that the American populace -- comprising approximately 300 million out of approximately 6 billion (or about one twentieth of the world's population) continues to consume nearly fifty percent of the global resources.
For instance, we Americans like beef. It takes seven pounds of grain to produce one pound of beef. Imagine how many of us we could feed if we started eating grain instead of beef.
Anyways, that's just one of an infinite number of examples. I won't even begin my SUV rant, since in doing so I could probably start my own little war right here in HC. I think that would be counterproductive to my purpose. I will just say that the notion that we for some reason have a right to continue consuming vastly more of the planet than everyone else so that our soccermoms can continue driving eight-cylinder gas guzzlers capable of cliff-climbing -- well, that argument somehow justifying continuing warfare just doesn't sit well with me for some reason.
I will try to expand on these ideas later when it is not so late at night and I haven't had quite so much wine. Sorry all. Guess I'm a bit depressed tonight. Remember the source. I'm the one in this community who has 7-11's built all over my ancestral burial grounds (this of course is not to suggest that I'm the only one). I still like the people who work there though.
Guess I'm still trying to figure out what to do with that after all these decades...
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I have menopause and a handgun. Any questions?
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lord_crusader
Promising
Supreme Hero
UHU!! supreme!
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posted October 24, 2003 04:41 PM |
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War o peace???
I say... SEX 
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Dig Out Your Soul
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andrewuser
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 23, 2020 10:40 PM |
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Peace is very important. It means human lives and hman lives should be most appreciated.
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