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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Armageddon
Thread: Armageddon This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
Galahad
Galahad


Adventuring Hero
Seeker of the Grail
posted July 09, 2001 11:09 PM
Edited By: Hexa on 26 Jan 2002

Armageddon

A hero attacks with Black Dragons + Armageddon. How do you defeat them?

With Castle, Inferno and Rampart it shouldnīt be too difficult since their fastest unit have higher speed than the BD. But if you play as Necropolis, Tower, Stronghold or Fortress, how do you handle this situation?

Edit: revived!@
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raZor_X
raZor_X


Promising
Known Hero
The mysterious Warlock
posted July 09, 2001 11:30 PM

When he attack and try to cast armageddon, he realises that you have recasters cloak, you mass haste the stroghold creatures and finnish them off, especially with behemoths ...

raZor_X

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thunderknight
thunderknight


Promising
Famous Hero
posted July 10, 2001 09:14 AM

Or you got Orb of Vulnerability and let his dragons die as well........

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pleuris
pleuris


Promising
Known Hero
Look ma! No hair!
posted July 10, 2001 09:56 AM

Tactics skill

If you have the Expert Tactics skill and your opponent doesn't, YOU will be able to cast a spell during the Tactics fase...

y,y, it's not very sporting, but hey, who said Black Dragons and Armageddon are???

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Galahad
Galahad


Adventuring Hero
Seeker of the Grail
posted July 10, 2001 02:16 PM

What are you talking about Pleuris? You are not able to cast any spells in the tactic-phase, only when you have ballistics and attacking a city. Besides how often will you have expert tactics and the overlord donīt...

The rest of you>>> Donīt you have any serious ideas? Those artifacts wonīt be there every time.
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Cheesus
Cheesus


Known Hero
The Untouchable
posted July 10, 2001 02:48 PM bonus applied.
Edited By: Cheesus on 10 Jul 2001

serious ideas?

What do you think? I mean get real! There is no real way to ĻstopĻ arma if you donīt have artifacts, here are the ONLY ways to ĻstopĻ it without arts.

Using archangels is not very realistic, i have been facing this problem so many times...
The only thing you can do when you have Archangels is retreat everytime because seriously, armageddon will crush your archangels after you get the chance to attack, you can never kill 7 stacks of black dragons with 7 archangels when fighting a hero.

Here is the best way to retaliate vs arma.

Try and find the hero Thorgrimm, he has speciality resistance and will grow to be quite efficiant in the skill.

Use Rampart (you can choose Thorgrimm if you choose rampart)
man this is going to be a long story... oh well.
Rampart has Gold Dragons, they can resist up to 4th level spells, arma is a 4th level spell.
There are also unicorns, make SURE they are placed in the centre of your crew so they can use their magic resistance speciality. (they give units who are standing next to them extra resistance, in combination with thorgrimm, this is great).
Silver Pegasi, they have a magic damper, not sure what this is, but itīs a bit like the unicorns resistance.
Battle Dwarves, they have 40% magic resistance (again, use thorgrimm).

Here is the line-up you need to get the best magic resistance vs arma using rampart. (from top to bottom in tacticall screen)

Gold Dragons (they can stand alone since they block magic)
Battle Dwarves (40% magic resistance, leave them alone )
Grand Elves (standing next to unicorns for more resistance)
Unicorns (they provide restance for the dendroids and elves)
Dendroids (same as for the elves)
Centaur Captains (close to pegasi for the damper)
Silver Pegasi (you will have to move them to get resistance to the centaurs)

This is the best way to stop it using rampart.

You can also use inferno to stop it since efreet have fire magic immunity.

There are several other ways to stop it, but using rampart and thorgrimm is the best for sure since that is the way you least depend on luck.

This is also why i like rampart so much, you get good magic resistance and some of the best heroes in the game:
Kyrre, Mephala, Thorgrimm and Ryland are all great heroes, there are more, but those are the best
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Galahad
Galahad


Adventuring Hero
Seeker of the Grail
posted July 10, 2001 06:32 PM

Well, I didnīt exactly ask for a way to stop armageddon. I asked what you would do.
And if I follow you right, you surrender immediately...
A strategist will always find a way to defeat an opponent, no matter how powerful.
I would probably abandon my town and go for his trying to get some Black Dragons from his hometown and attack so I would begin the battle. But if he has advanced town portal
that it seems pretty hopeless.

Cheesus, the AA are most likely to survive. Castle have the same chance to get anti-magic as Dungeon has to get armageddon. Save one AA at home in case you would lose the fight and attack again with that one plus Champions.

About magic damper, that means that the Pegasi forces the opponent to use more mana for every spell. It doesnīt give you any extra magic resistance.
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rogue
rogue


Promising
Famous Hero
Prosecutors Will Be Shoplifted
posted July 10, 2001 10:38 PM

yeah, the magic damper is sorta like the opposite of hte Archmage's ability.  (makes your own spells cost less)

Also, I'd do that different...

Gold Dragons
whatever
War Unicorns
War Unicorns
Silver Pegesai
whatever
Gold Dragons

You need two stacks of war unicorns, because then their magic resistance will allow them to protect each other.  (it protects all adjacent creatures, but not the unicorns themselves.)

The two whatever stacks will die, but you need something there, so you'll have seven stacks (which puts the 3 in the center next to each other.)

Then, ... well, it would still be an uphill battle, but maybe you'd survive.
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Galahad
Galahad


Adventuring Hero
Seeker of the Grail
posted July 11, 2001 01:50 AM

I agree totally with your line-up Rouge. If you have anti-magic though, you would only need Gold Dragons + Unicorns.
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Roesisch
Roesisch

Tavern Dweller
posted July 11, 2001 11:10 AM
Edited By: Roesisch on 11 Jul 2001

hmmm...

Ever thought of a throng of battle dwarfs (+expert resistance! Maybe splitting the group will last a while...) Get some archangels and split them in two or three groups. Archangels always start first! Cast anti-magic on one. Use the other two to regenerate. put some archers for dragon meal into the middle - try to live more than three rounds using the spell slayer on the archangels (get even faster and increase moral and luck! - Also make sure to have high moral and luck before the battle!). Blow the opponent away with my best regards...
(What campaign/game is it you refer to?!)

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Thunder
Thunder


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted July 11, 2001 12:07 PM

How often Overlord would have Armageddon?

Clearly Galahad we are talking of Warlock and not Overlord. Overlord wouldn`tbe so efficient with armageddon.
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Thunder
Thunder


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted July 11, 2001 12:09 PM

Oh btw Galahad try your Armageddon tric against Conflux and me as a opponent
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Galahad
Galahad


Adventuring Hero
Seeker of the Grail
posted July 11, 2001 02:36 PM

Roesisch>>> I meant when armageddon is used in general in a multiplayer-game. Sounds like your tactics describe a battle against the AI.

Thunder>>> Fine! A warlock would be much easier to defeat. No tactics (probably) and his weak dragons wouldnīt stand a chance against Knight, Ranger, Demoniac.

Now how about someone answer my original question. How would you deal with armageddon as Tower, Fortress, Stronghold or Necropolis?
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Cheesus
Cheesus


Known Hero
The Untouchable
posted July 11, 2001 03:34 PM

uhm, you didnīt really get my point

Where in my post did you get the idea that i was suggesting retreat? Build up a good Thorgrimm just to retreat? Thatīs stupid!

I say you hit and run him with your Gold Dragons since you have one extra speed. That way you can kill one Black Dragon every time you attack without loosing your Golds.

Just so you know: I WOULD NEVER EVER EVER USE THIS TACTIC, BUT YOU WANTED TO KNOW A WAY TO WIN THE FIGHT!!!

So there, you can also do this with Archangels or anything faster then a Black Dragon.

The one i posted earlier about Thorgrimm was meant as a strategy for if you get surprised attacked, because usually you can see him coming and it would be stupid not to react to this in any way possible.

And might you want to know, there is no way to defeat Black Dragons if he has a STRONG arma, because if his arma is weak you can simply bring on your army and crush him anyways. I have played vs people with arma 4 times. I won 3 of them, they had efreet who are imume to arma, so they attacked with 6 stacks of efreet and 1 Arch_Devil to be first to attack. As you can see i defeated them 3 times using my rampart technique. Yet this thread isnīt really going anywhere since there is no real way to stop arma using ONLY tactics.
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Galahad
Galahad


Adventuring Hero
Seeker of the Grail
posted July 11, 2001 05:31 PM

If you had read EVERYTHING I wrote earlier, you would have noticed that I was open for any suggestions, tactics or strategy. I also said that it would be no problem defeating BDīs + armageddon with Castle, Inferno or Rampart. You wouldnīt need Thorgrim to win that battle at all.

And how were you supposed to recruit Thorgrim in the first place, especially if you were suprise-attacked? You would have to spend a fortune on heroes and perhaps never get him and if you do he is useless on level 1 anyway.
Or do you mean that you never play anything else than Rampart and choose Thor as your starting-hero or hire him along the way? "Use Rampart" isnīt exactly the answer to
the question this thread is about.


Quote:
And might you want to know, there is no way to defeat Black Dragons if he has a STRONG arma, because if his arma is weak you can simply bring on your army and crush him anyways.


Could you also explain what you mean by this? I mean, itīs pretty obvious that a superior army will win a battle (at least in HOMM3).
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Zud
Zud


Promising
Famous Hero
box worshipper
posted July 11, 2001 07:09 PM

arma and tactics

If you dont have the speed with tower, necro stronghold or fortress there is also the option of increasing your speed.  I know you mentioned that the orbs, recanters and other arts are not valid options, but they are options, not just tactics, summon earth or fire elemental is also an option, but a couple speed arts could also be a valid strat to get slower troops up to speed, also mass haste or mass slow are tactics if you can survive that first arma and have enuf army to hit his black dragons. each game has so many different options although there is no general cure all for the deadly black dragon/arma combo. I have beaten this combo with recanters or black orb most of the time that I have been able to.
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Roesisch
Roesisch

Tavern Dweller
posted July 12, 2001 10:47 AM
Edited By: Roesisch on 12 Jul 2001

Ah - ok.

Yes, I meant the AI, in a real battle i wouldn't let you come this far - otherwize I would have lost the game...
So, you described a final fight with 4 ases on your hand! Sure I would retread!

But there is the possibility of me also having Black Dragons and Armageddon! Already thought of this situation? Me having more Dragons than you and equal hero-strength...

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Galahad
Galahad


Adventuring Hero
Seeker of the Grail
posted July 12, 2001 09:43 PM

I suppose artifacts is an option. If he gets lucky getting arma. then why shouldnīt I have some luck. That 25% chance Dungeon has is just disgusting though!
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thunderknight
thunderknight


Promising
Famous Hero
posted July 13, 2001 06:45 PM

Oh, Galahad, u really gives a hard question.
Besides artifact, Thorgrimm and spell immunity of other creatures for certain towns and speed advantage, there are something we can try.

I assume that it's a warlock using arma trick and he doesn't get tactic......I also assume that the warlock would have BD only otherwise he would flame his other troops as well.

For Stronghold:
Arma trick is nasty but would not be fatal for a good stronghold player. A stronghold player will have "reasonably" assumed that he will be "out-magic" by others especially towns like dungeon. Therefore, resistance will be a highly favorable skill and will be picked if given and so his main hero would probably have resistance.

The best way for stronghold is "Might Vs Magic" i.e. a strong barbarian + stacks of tough creatures (so leave your shooters alone at home ). Use as few stacks as possible i.e. one stack of 20 ogres would suffer less than 2 stacks of 10 ogres each. Use tactical advantage, take the first arma, cast anti-magic on your best stack, most probably ancient behemoth, and crash those BD ASAP......

For Tower:
Same problem is for tower, and even worse coz tower is by no means great in terms of might and tactic. Tower would suffer badly under the arma trick. So the best tactic against this dirty trick is ....... AVOID it
Whenever you see a guy running around with BD as only stack, I would suspect he may use arma trick. I would avoid him unless I got those useful artifacts. Try to take his town and use the same trick to him......
(well, it's a very reactive tactic but it's the best I can think of, maybe others can help me out for this.)

For Necro:
Never mind, you would probably got more than 1K skele for that warlock to work on........

For fortress:
I can't help. Maybe resistance hero + luck such that your mighty gorgon not affected + anti-magic on MG........

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Roesisch
Roesisch

Tavern Dweller
posted July 13, 2001 06:46 PM

Besides...

Why would you run around only with Black Dragons? Is your hero affected by Armageddon, when having equipped Armageddon's Blade? Just wondering... Then Archangel is definately the worst enemy you could encounter, since they resurect, right?!

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