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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: How strong is Adela ?
Thread: How strong is Adela ?
Zaio-Baio
Zaio-Baio


Promising
Famous Hero
posted October 02, 2017 05:35 PM

How strong is Adela ?

Greetings all, ive just started to play h3 again (i played it as a kid and i was total noob ). So i wonder how strong is Adela (castle hero that starts with diplo). Can she rival Hack/Tazar/Shakti on L/XL sized default random maps ?

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batoonike
batoonike


Known Hero
posted October 03, 2017 08:23 PM

I would much more gladly give the opponent grag hack or tazar than a diplomacy hero on reasonably rich XL map. Grag hack can theoretically be beaten.

But if you're looking to kill your friends in hot seat then just pick necro hero and assemble the necro bonus artifact that gives liches. It beats everything else.

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Orc
Orc


Known Hero
posted October 03, 2017 11:51 PM
Edited by Orc at 09:13, 05 Oct 2017.

Ofc crag s stronger

However, Adela can bless melee and ranged attackers.

At lvl 42, crag improve melee by 63%.

Adela at lvl 42,

Improve lvl 1 by 126%
Improve lvl 2 by 63%
Improve lvl 3 by 42%
Improve lvl 4 by 30%
Improve lvl 5 by 24%
Improve lvl 6 by 21%
Improve lvl 7 by 18%

Dnt forget though, Adela can take offense too

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The_Polyglot
The_Polyglot


Promising
Supreme Hero
zombie
posted October 04, 2017 04:44 PM
Edited by The_Polyglot at 16:48, 04 Oct 2017.

Rule of thumb is, might heroes get stronger the bigger the map and the more time elapses. Adela as a Castle Magic hero gets crap odds at skills excepting diplomacy, which won't boost you at all in the crucial earlygame. Most likely, you'll have to develop the first might hero that pops in the tavern, and use them as main, with adela the eventual tagalong for diplo.

@Orc: so excepting ranged and lvl 1, Crag is better, by your own maths.(Is it even correct though? seems off) Except it's a passive bonus, and active on EVERY melee, all the time, without need for spell points. While Adela needs to cast first, and ideally do so on units with big damage ranges, Crag is free to cast stuff like Haste, and get in close
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Screw interest, take initiative!
Anonymous

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batoonike
batoonike


Known Hero
posted October 04, 2017 05:39 PM

Isnt this 100% about having diplomacy skill?

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The_Polyglot
The_Polyglot


Promising
Supreme Hero
zombie
posted October 04, 2017 05:45 PM

No, it's about weighing a guaranteed diplo against the drawbacks of a Castle magic hero.
____________
Screw interest, take initiative!
Anonymous

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted October 04, 2017 06:00 PM

In vanilla game, without any fan modifications on templates or whatever, a diplo hero owns everybody.

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Orc
Orc


Known Hero
posted October 05, 2017 10:51 PM

@sal

Why does everyone think diplo is OP. LOL

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted October 05, 2017 11:48 PM

I once had 4000 Evil Eyes join me for free, if that is not OP, I don't know what is.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted October 06, 2017 12:02 AM

Orc said:
@salWhy does everyone think diplo is OP. LOL


Because instead of fighting mobs on map, they all want to join you then you can really do big fights and early. Captain Obvious.


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orc
orc


Known Hero
posted October 06, 2017 08:55 AM

But you take them for money, not for free lol.

Diplo never worked for me xD

maybe on king difficulty monsters never join me?

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted October 06, 2017 09:10 AM

Well, you have to know playing and handling diplo. Is not like Adela goes out with 12 pikeman and hordes of azures will join.

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orc
orc


Known Hero
posted October 06, 2017 09:13 AM

Salamandre said:
Well, you have to know playing and handling diplo. Is not like Adela goes out with 12 pikeman and hordes of azures will join.


i tried 35 pikeman + 15 acher and 33/41 tryg didnt joined

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted October 06, 2017 09:21 AM

If you have Expert Diplomacy and a reasonable army, almost anything joins.

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Orc
Orc


Known Hero
posted October 06, 2017 01:23 PM

So basically i have to seek lvl up stone or take rank from treasure chest before i fight anything.

I see

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batoonike
batoonike


Known Hero
posted October 06, 2017 04:58 PM
Edited by batoonike at 17:00, 06 Oct 2017.

You'll want a combination of strong creatures, high attack and defense stats and lots of money. Adding in some creature types that you're trying to get to join helps too. Having the number of joining creatures higher than everything else helps too, eg.

Trying to get 200 marksmen to join

Ok army: 20 arch angels
Better army: 20 arch angels and 19 archer/marksman
Best army: 18 (!!) arch angels and 19 marksmen

In practice it's often possible to remove all the unnecessary creatures and therefore get the maximum bonus of having half of the army the same creature type as joiners would be, if you have some high level units available to get the power ranking up.

Check Tribute to strategyst for more details: https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B29K9wqYz_uSNDkwMDk2ZDItNDkwNy00MzlhLTkzYzUtYmJiODdiOTgzOGRm

Not claiming any of this is 100% accurate

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zombiewhacker
zombiewhacker


Adventuring Hero
posted October 07, 2017 12:12 AM

@Orc
"But you take them for money, not for free lol."

On unmodded HOMM3 maps, wandering creatures can and often will join your hero for free. But not all will, even of the same type.  

Example: after a monthly respawn of wandering creatures, let's say centaurs in this case, it's not uncommon to find a large number of wandering centaurs willing to join a diplomat for free, close to half of the other centaurs willing but only for a price, and always, always a small remainder of centaurs who will diss you no matter how powerful your hero is or how many centaurs you already have in your army.

Don't.  Know.  Why.

@batoonike
"You'll want a combination of strong creatures, high attack and defense stats and lots of money. Adding in some creature types that you're trying to get to join helps too. Having the number of joining creatures higher than everything else helps too, eg."

Does anybody know if artifacts that increase attack or defense skills will affect how diplomacy works, or is the in-game calculation for diplo's effectiveness based on the hero's native skills only?

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Orc
Orc


Known Hero
posted October 07, 2017 05:04 PM

Nice


I also found this for further reading

On the Internals of Diplomacy Skill

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cranky
cranky

Tavern Dweller
posted November 12, 2017 03:53 PM
Edited by cranky at 15:55, 12 Nov 2017.

sorry had to make 1 post to make a thread
____________

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Supreme Hero
posted November 12, 2017 05:00 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 17:01, 12 Nov 2017.

zombiewhacker said:
Does anybody know if artifacts that increase attack or defense skills will affect how diplomacy works, or is the in-game calculation for diplo's effectiveness based on the hero's native skills only?


Yes, the thing is the calculation of your hero's power is made using the primary skills of attack and defense (added by artifacts or acquired by the hero) to the strength of the creatures. Secondary skills like Offense, Armorer or Archery are not considered. It is common a strong hero with only the same number of creatures of the same type to convince a stack of neutrals to join, specially on the weaker units, you will need tons of attack/defense to get azures or crystal with close numbers.

About the strength of Adela: in my opinion the best way to use Diplomacy heroes is to have them just for that, using a might hero for main. Of course, this requires some chaining.
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