|
| Thread: Creature Experience (Just another wish, eh...) |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
|
Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
|
posted March 23, 2001 10:35 PM |
|
|
dr_st [guest] from Heroes Community
Re: creature experience Posted 12-24-2000 07:28
First concept: Hero experience and creature experience are completely independent. Of course you can add locations to increase the both, or just one of them.
Such things like hillforts, for example, are types of locations that increase the creature experience.
About the exact numbers and levels of experience, and what creature quality is modified when a level increases: that's for the programmmers to decide.
About skeletons: that's a good point wizardboy makes. Here are some possible suggestions that I think of at the moment:
1. Necromancer hero will have the ability to decide whether he wants the skeletons he resurrects or not. Although I presume it's always good to take them. 1000 of unupgraded skeletons are better than 100 upgraded.
2. Skeletons should have no upgrades available. That's an option because nobody said that all the creatures should have the same level of upgrades possible. For example, Ghosts. If they are back in the game, we face the same problem as with the skeletons.
3. There should be made an exception for skeletons, so that newly resurrected skeletons get the experience of the stack they join. That will make them very powerful however.
4. The skeletons which are resurrected get the average experience of the army of the hero/castle defeated. It makes sense.
Like any of the above suggestions? Maybe you have some of your own?
|
|
Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
|
|
posted March 23, 2001 10:36 PM |
|
|
wizardboy from Heroes Community
skeletons with experiences Posted 12-24-2000 13:33
Here is a way we can do it though:
at the end of the battle the left over skeletons gets their experiences added up then the new skeletons will have their new experiences added(the average of the left over skeletons).
then we can avoid the whole skeleton horde from not having any experiences at all.
or we can leave it like that cuz otherwise the skeletons are to strong with the expeiences added to it.
Have fun!
|
|
Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
|
|
posted March 23, 2001 10:36 PM |
|
|
beldarion from Heroes Community
Skeleton experience, etc Posted 12-27-2000 10:42
I agree that the addition of new skeletons or ghosts to a group could seriously muck up the experience idea, but think about this:
If 1000 new skeletons are gained out of a battle, then at least 1000 creatures had to be defeated by the hero's army to gain these new creatures (In the belief that max. Necromancy skill is 100%). Just think how much experience would have been gained for your previous skeletons/ghosts through the defeat of those enemies (unless those enemies are like peasants), and anyway, 1000 new skeletons or ghosts are a very formidable force to begin with. What does everybody else think?
|
|
Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
|
|
posted March 23, 2001 10:36 PM |
|
|
Flector [guest] from Heroes Community
Creature stack experience Posted 1-10-2001 14:17
Hi to all Heroes
I don't see much a problem with the skeletons. Getting new skeletons by means of necromancy or recruiting them in a necromancer town is very similar. The only difference is that with necromancy I cannot choose if (and how many) new skeletons I recruit. Therefore giving the necromancer the choice of how many of the newly created skeletons he really wants to recruit into his army neatly solves solves the problem.
Although i do like the stack-experience idea I think it has limitations. I think it is very important to make the difference between successive stack-experience levels relative small. A +1 attack or something like that would be ok.
However giving special abilities at some level (e.g. gorgons get the death stare at level 4 or even more powerfull abilities) will only hurt the game. I will give an example of how I would start to play. Let's say i have a group of level 4(+) gorgons. Now I want to add new gorgons to my army. Adding to many fresh ones will get the skill level of the group gorgons below 4, loosing the special ability. I will probably take my pocketcalculator and calculate that i can safely add x gorgons without losing the special ability. This of course spoils all the fun of the game.
Do any of you see this as a problem ?? Or is it only a problem for hardcore players (like me) who only play expert and impossible maps (on impossible difficulty setting) and have to play near optimal to be able to win a scenario.
|
|
Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
|
|
posted March 23, 2001 10:37 PM |
|
|
sikmar from Heroes Community
Separate creature stats from creature type Posted 1-12-2001 08:43
It seems obvious that creatures cannot be mixed that way (gorgons with mighty gorgons), but maybe the following system could be implemented:
Suppose you originally have a group of gorgons. They fight long and hard and the game keeps their experience points somewhere in the savefile. You can mix them up with other gorgons, both newbies recruited in your dwellings or experienced ones.
Then, after a battle, your group of gorgons take the major part of the fight and gain a lot of experience. Suddenly, a pop-up menu tells your hero the gorgons have gained experience enough to get a new rank and they are now mighty gorgons, with his special death stare ability. This was the system used in "Warlords II", where some creatures gained medals in combat which improved their stats.
This system makes the player to take some critical choices. He can add newbie gorgons to the stack, but then their promotion to mighty gorgons will take more time. He also can put the experienced gorgons in one stack and the newbies in other, speeding up the promotion of the first group. A lot of strategic choices can be made.
What I mean is that special abilities are attached to creature type, as we are used to, but experience gives an alternate way to upgrade creatures.
With this system, HOMM4 could allow some more upgrades to every creature: Gorgons->Brave Gorgons->Mighty Gorgons->Deadly Gorgons (let native english speakers select the best adjectives, I'm not one of them).
Anyway, when your gorgons have reached the top rank, experience continues growing. What can we do then? Well, like a hero who has learned his eight abilities, this "Deadly Gorgons" should continue improving his attack, defense... but this skills need to be averaged when you mix them with other untrained Deadly Gorgons.
That's all. Sorry for the too long explanations
|
|
Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
|
|
posted March 23, 2001 10:37 PM |
|
|
beldarion from Heroes Community
Experience distribution Posted 1-13-2001 06:10
My brother recently brought up an issue regarding this topic which has to be brought to everybody's attention for some consideration. Would the total experience gained in a battle be shared evenly amongst all stacks of creatures, or would a stack of creatures gain extra experience for killing enemy troops? Apart from that, I like Sikmar's idea of introducing extra upgrades into the game. But what does everybody think of the idea that each different upgrade for a creature has its own special ability (for example the death stare for the mighty gorgons, and the negation of the adjacent penalty for archmagi), which could replace the old ability, and could either be accepted or rejected by the human player?
Thats all for now. I would love to hear all of your comments.
|
|
Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
|
|
posted March 23, 2001 10:37 PM |
|
|
wizardboy from Heroes Community
experiences Posted 1-15-2001 13:19
i like the idea of upgrading to different creature types really much!
but howeveri have something to suggest. u know how heroes is homm3 has creature enhancing skills? now as their lvl goes up, they are able to upgrade the critters they are specialised at(for a price of course).
thes second point i want to make is that experinces should be distributed differently for different lvls of creatures.
eg lvl 1 creatures comes in heaps and when they come into your army, your veteran lvl 1s will be really unhappy with their new found friends becuz their experiences will go down dramatically if u are getting a months worth of lvl 1 creatures.
in the other hand for higher lvl critters, they are much much more happier. why, they have less experinces to share.
well where there is new ideas there is always calculations, i guess this is where valera and all the other mathematical geniuses comes in. well boys do your magic!
anyway, have fun!!
|
|
Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
|
|
posted March 23, 2001 10:38 PM |
|
|
Abein [guest] from Heroes Community
...errr Posted 1-24-2001 18:07
Don't you all think your taking this a little seriously? It's not a profession... its a game!!!
Sit back and think about it a little more...you wont even need 3DO to make any more games...just play calculations out in your heads and see what armies will fight what the experience of each stack with the added possibilities of special abilities and the endless numbers that will have you wanting more BRAM (brain-ram) to be able to cope with this increase in data saved...go out...take a walk...breathe again...please
|
|
Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
|
|
posted March 23, 2001 10:38 PM |
|
|
3lionshield from Heroes Community
skills for troops Posted 1-24-2001 18:30
Valera
since the average experience of the troops would be changing with new recruits or after battles-it would be impossible to give levels to troops like giving levels to heroes because then what would happen to that stack of 25 veteran skeletons when the 11 new ones are added? If the levels you gave troops were based on experience then you would actually be losing levels?
|
|
Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
|
|
posted March 23, 2001 10:38 PM |
|
|
valera from Heroes Community
re: skills 4 troops Posted 1-24-2001 19:35
Hi 3lionshield,
By this system I have in mind, the levels that creatures gain are not customizeable. Say with level two skeleton gains +1 att and +1 def. With level 3 skeleton gains +1 hp. With level 4 +1 speed. With level 5 skel gains +2 att. Level 6 = +1 speed. Level 7 = +1 hp. Level 8 = +1 att +1 def. Level 9 = +1 hp. Level 10 - they become skeleton warrors, change look and gain +1 to every stat. etc... With level 15 they could gain abbility that their attack has 20% chance of freezing enemy by 1 turn (undead fear).
The point is, levels are the same every time.
When you mix experienced and newbie skeletons their group level drops to the middle. new group exp = ( group 1 exp X number of skels in group 1 + group 2 exp X number of skels in group 2 ) / total number of skeletons in both groups. Veterans have to teach newbies, who pick up some of the skills, while newbies break the established group morale and teamwork, partially. So it is quite reasonable. Together they can regain all the levels through battles. That is strategy, otherways just having an experienced stack and adding to it would make little sense, and also it would become all powerful. Players would only have 1 stack or two with no exp loss.
Valeriy.
____________
You can wait for others to do it, but if they don't know how, you'll wait forever.
Be an example of what you want to see on HC and in the world.
http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com
|
|
Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
|
|
posted March 23, 2001 10:39 PM |
|
|
wizardboy from Heroes Community
experiences Posted 1-26-2001 13:39
hey to all!
we are not just any players, Abein, we are addicts!!
we devote all our life to perfect our stradegies.
and btw, val i think exp should b different and lower for higher creature lvls(read my previous msg)
have fun guys!
|
|
Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
|
|
posted March 23, 2001 10:39 PM |
|
|
Boala [guest] from Heroes Community
Creature experience Posted 1-29-2001 15:45
It's a nice idea, but too much calculating in the term that you would have to decide how many you would mix to make the optimum for just maintaing level 2 for the stack! This would remove the fun for the rest of us, who doesn't need to play on an optimum level, sorry guys =)(And I'd hate something which would actually make the turns longer, still smart buttons is an option)
However I love your idea and think it's possible to make this system work for the broad masses on a understandable level, plus still a feature that can be apreciated by you guys.
What about this,
using one of your experince gaining systems for creature stacks where adding more creatures will lower the average(example Gargoyles): The cratures will reach a certain experience limit individual for each different type of unit, where the hero can right click on the stack, when not in battle, and choose upgrade to "Marble Gargoyles" and the creatures will gain some kind of abilities, one extra retaliation, fire resistence, regeneration or even cast's luck when battle starts etc.. The possibilities are endless, but back to the more obvious problem at hand: What happens afterwards when you want to mix unexperienced troops?
This is my idea, it's not possible and not possible to upgrade more the stack more than one time, after upgrading, a stack will not recieve any more XP. Plus, only two upgraded stack's can be joined together!
There is one problem though, somebody could just take one cerature an very fast reach champion status, and this is dangerous to the rest of us, as the speculaters will fast find a quick and deadly mix of one unit stacks, to archieve optimum starting armies. But isn't that just great?
|
|
Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
|
|
posted March 23, 2001 10:39 PM |
|
|
valera from Heroes Community
Possible Solution Posted 1-29-2001 20:43
Possible solution: when you click to mix two groups of the same creature type but with different experience, a box pops up:
On each side of the box is the info of each stack: level, experience and number. In the middle is the resulting stack's level, experience and number. By adjusting the slider troops are moved from the first into the second stack until the best number/level combination is reached. Pressing OK commences the action.
|
|
Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
|
|
posted March 23, 2001 10:40 PM |
|
|
beldarion from Heroes Community
Stack experience + upgrading Posted 1-30-2001 11:40
I like Valera's idea about having a popup window show up whenever you mix creatures from two different groups. I also like the idea of the creatures being upgraded whenever the player feels like it by right-clicking or similar (except within a battle). I'm not very sure about troops being prevented from gaining extra experience after upgrading though...
What does everybody else think?
|
|
Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
|
|
posted March 23, 2001 10:40 PM |
|
|
Boala from Heroes Community
Experience after upgrading to elite troops Posted 1-30-2001 12:32
How hard should it be to obtain the upgrade?
Should there be more than one? if so doesn't the hero specials for animals become obsulete? Even more than now?
And Valera I didn't exactly understand the thing about three boxes, what should the third box show that could not be in the two allready shown?
|
|
Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
|
|
posted March 23, 2001 10:41 PM |
|
|
Dunco25 from Heroes Community
Nice idea. Posted 1-30-2001 19:37
OK.
it would be a good thing. Another thing that would be good is a way to cross creatures. Of course it woukl not work in Castle. At leas hardly. Like ckossing a centaur captain with a lets say... Harpie. The creature would be neat yet this idea is unrealistic.
|
|
Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
|
|
posted March 23, 2001 10:41 PM |
|
|
AncientOne from Heroes Community
Army Levels Posted 3-5-2001 02:48
I think that I'd vote for Alera's idea.
First, it's a nice idea to have armies level up. It's being implimented in a lot of games, and I'd like to see it happen here, too.
Second, it's a lot simpler than keeping track of the experience for each individual unit.
|
|
Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
|
|
posted March 23, 2001 10:41 PM |
|
|
Mystery [guest] from Heroes Community
****************A GENIOUS SOLUTION****************** Posted 3-9-2001 23:17
Instead of upgrading troops at a castle, each stack in an army should have experience points, when it does damage or defends itself or somthing, it gains experience, when for example a stack of 100 Hydras gains 2000 EXP, it "Evolves" into a stack of 100 Chaos Hydras.
|
|
Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
|
|
posted March 23, 2001 10:42 PM |
|
|
Mystery [guest] from Heroes Community
Upgrades Posted 3-10-2001 00:03
Troops should upgrade by EXP only through battle, and each time a stack gains a level it should gain an upgrade, so that a hydra can evolve into a chaos hydra, then a royal hydra then a godly hydra and so on... Each time the stack of creature attacks in a battle it gains EXP so that a stack could evolve in a middle of a battle and by that gain an extra turn and maybe add morale. The player should be able to mix 2 stacks of the same creature if they have different EXP but the same level, it may not be realistic but the more realism, the more complex the game is, and the more complex the game is, the less fun it is to play it (I was slightly disappointed by the complexity of HOMM3).
|
|
Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
|
|
posted March 23, 2001 10:42 PM |
|
|
KURAIZEN [guest] from Heroes Community
i tryed to read all of the previous posts to make sure no one else said this, but i skiped the last few... sorry if i'm repeating, Posted 3-11-2001 07:49
its like this, skelletons, and skelleton warriors ( i don't think they went up higher...)
they get better in stages, once a stack of skelletons gains enough exp to level / evolve, they become skell warriors, and will no longer accept skells into their stack, only skell warriors, and for some creatures,
gorgon - no spell, normal stats,
mighty gorgon - spell 15%, higher stats,
bloodthirsty gorgon - spell 30%, super stats,
also, having them evolve a cirtant way depending on what hero has them when they evolve, for instance, we have a "knight" who if he is with a fighting castle hero turns into a "crusader" when he levels, however if he is with a magical castle hero he turns into a "paladin" and a crusader would have higher damage / attack def, a paladin would have turn undead spell% and holy damage, so they evolve different ways, depending on weather some one is useing a spell hero vs fighting hero,
and further more!!! ghosts and skells for joining army... have the ghost soul stealthingy be a spell just like the other creatures, and after a battle, your necro skill will open up a window haveing your troops and the aditional skells that can be added, you move them where you want, so you could have one stack become warriors, and another stack is taking the newbies,
and we could iliminate hero exp, haveing them only get better with artifacts, but we have weapon smiths in towns that after so much resourse and time, a new more powerfull artifact can be made, so you can make a sword with +8 attack skill, after spending more than total resourse for a mage guild ya know? have it take one day per bonus its awarding to the hero,
|
| |
|
|
