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| Thread: Creature Experience (Just another wish, eh...) |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
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posted March 23, 2001 10:42 PM |
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Mystery [guest] from Heroes Community
The main idea. Posted 3-13-2001 20:04
The point of me and many more guys is: UNITS SHOULD NOT BE UPGRADED AT A CASTLE IN ANY WAY, THEY SHOULD EVOLVE THOROUGH BATTLE WHEN THEY REACH A LEVEL! EACH TIME A STACK ATTACKS IT GAINS EXP SO THAT IT COULD EVOLVE IN A MIDDLE OF A BATTLE IN A COOL ANIMATION. AFTER IT REACHED ITS FINAL EVOLUTION, IT SHOULD NOT INCREASE IN STATS SO THAT THERE WON'T BE ANY SUPER-MONSTERS WHICH SWOOSH THROUGH THE BATTLEFIELD WITH 1000 HP AND KILL EVERYONE. got it?
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Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
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posted March 23, 2001 10:42 PM |
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Mysery [guest] from Heroes Community
VALERA: read it! it important! Posted 3-16-2001 12:09
I think this is the most major and important topic in this whole forum so i think u should tell 3DO to throughly read it first adn take ideas from here.
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Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
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posted March 23, 2001 10:43 PM |
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Valera from Heroes Community
Pretty sure Posted 3-17-2001 21:15
Hey Mysery,
I'm pretty sure it is all being read, especially this large one. See that letter from 3DO that I posted recently.
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Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
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posted March 23, 2001 10:43 PM |
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dr_st from Heroes Community
The importance of this topic Posted 3-18-2001 08:35
This is a great topic indeed (I did participate in it once, but lost touch with it). However, it only deals with experience and creature upgrading, which is overall a small aspect of the game. Making games for all people, companies tend to concentrate more on graphics, sound, movies etc. Not saying that this is good though, but that's how it is.
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Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
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posted March 23, 2001 10:43 PM |
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SMily from Heroes Community
About EXP Posted 3-18-2001 08:39
Sorry if i'm repeating something you said earlyer, but Mystery has a point.
Say you have 25 Skeletons and you fight a battle. They kill an army and get EXP(the whole stack) Say they reach a certain level of EXP and evolve. all 25 skeletons turn into tougher Skeleton Soldiers immediately. they kill some more and turn into Skeleton Soldiers, than let's say... Skeleton Warlords...and finaly Skeleton Kings or something like that.So a hero that has upgraded skeletons (like Skeleton Warlords) would be able to upgrade(for a small fee)simple Skeletons up to the Skeleton Warlord level.
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Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
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posted March 23, 2001 10:43 PM |
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Flector [guest] from Heroes Community
Slider box Posted 3-21-2001 12:25
Valera, your slider box idea is excellent !
All the doubts I had about the creature stack experience model (see my previous posts) are gone. I am all for it now!
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Mystery
Famous Hero
Hatebreeder
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posted April 02, 2001 07:52 PM |
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Hey!
Why has this topic stopped getting replies?
Or if you don't want to reply to it, at least keep it on top in case that 3DO comes to see ideas  .
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D3@th t0 Fals3 m3Tal!
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green_behemoth
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 02, 2001 10:11 PM |
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okay
All right
I agree that you should only evolve during battle, but i would like to add one thing, may be there should still be a hill fort so you can teach your creature to upgrade there
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Mystery
Famous Hero
Hatebreeder
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posted April 02, 2001 10:15 PM |
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ok
Of course.
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D3@th t0 Fals3 m3Tal!
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Rage
Adventuring Hero
Slipping Through the Trees
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posted April 02, 2001 11:11 PM |
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my take
-I totally agree on having a limited experience level for creatures. Otherwise you could supe up a pikemen and have it kill dragons etc with one hit. Either that or limit the influence a hero has on his/her units(which would make more sense).
-I think that Valera's slider idea would work but to get it working simultaneously with 'evolving' might be tough.
-I think u should still be able to upgrade in towns but it should take either time and/or money(something that would be a bonus for units upgraded in combat).
-Unit stacks should get more experience for actively participating in battles(ie killing other units) and more experience for killing other experienced units.
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Mystery
Famous Hero
Hatebreeder
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posted April 02, 2001 11:42 PM |
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There is no problem.
The slider box is meant to mix identical creatures with different EXP, but there is no problem with evolving because u can't mix different evolutions of units.
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D3@th t0 Fals3 m3Tal!
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Shae_Trielle
Honorable
Famous Hero
of Heroes
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posted April 03, 2001 08:27 AM |
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Nice idea, this creature experience stuff, but I can't see it ever working. Stacks change every few days within heroes through losses and new recruits and I reckon it would add such difficult-to-follow complexity to an already complex game that most players would not even bother themselves with how much experience a stack of skeletons has. If you mix in the old with the new, the veterans don't lose experience, they stay the same, and the recruits sure as hell aren't going to go from 25exp all the way up to 1800exp just because they got included in with a bunch of hard asses (no pun intended, lol). What interests me more is the level raising for creature types, greater diversity of upgrades. Hey, remember, that the Heroes command the army, the army does not 'learn anything' from surviving a fight with a horde of titans, the HERO does, so therefore, the experience should all go to him/her. It does in a roundabout way end up benefitting the creature stats anyway, doesn't it?
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CGChewie
Hired Hero
Master of the Obvious
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posted April 12, 2001 04:58 AM |
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good Idea...
I like this idea a lot... This might be a way i would do it...
Say you got your elves from a Rampart. Through battle training and winning battles your elves and they "evolve" into Wood Elves. But the end of the week comes and you got some more normal old Elves! Well, I think you should have to battle train those too... But instead of upgrading troops at your town, maybe have something like a Wall of Knowledge type deal. So all Elf-series troops get +2Attack. Then you could upgrade the upgrade to +6 shot and +2 Speed. Those are my 2 cents... And a bump. lol
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And I'm spent!
~CGChewie
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malkia
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 12, 2001 05:09 AM |
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Bad idea
Sorry Valery, didn't mean to offend you, but I think that generally this idea will introduce something bad and uncontrolled to the game.
How you solve when you have to combine/split/leave and so different armies?
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thunderknight
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 12, 2001 06:59 AM |
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Very Cool Ideas. I like this creature upgrading system. It had been used in many games even some "ancient" games so I don't see why it is unfeasible in Homm.
I had "a little" more to add.....(if you don't like read lengthy and boring stuff, ignore it  )
I) EXPERIENCE GAINING:-
a). Garrison troops: for troops you hired to defend the towns. They should gain exp by elapse of time as they train themselves during stay in the town. Say +5 exp per day.
b). Exploration: +10 exp per day out of town exploration
c). Participation in war: +100 per battle no matter you win it or lose it (hey, guys, if you flee or surrender, you may lose your morale, but you still learn something, don't you?)
* nevertheless, to prevent the notorious "hit-and-run" tactic gets its reward, by participation in war means you have to "really" do something in the war. Besides, some troops may kill nothing but they do help in a battle e.g. master genie and ogre mage.
d). Killing of enemies: +X exp for every unit you kill. ( I think there is already someone who has derived a very good formula for that)
e). Troops with heroes gain exp faster. e.g. garrison troops without heroes gain +2 per day instead of +5. Maybe some new skills like "Teaching"/"Training" (help me for more appropriate name pls ) for heroes who can make exp. gaining faster for troops.
II) DIVERSITY
Diversity will make games more interesting. Let's assume there are four levels for troop advancement: recruit/rookie, veteran, elite and ultra-elite.
At the beginning, the advancement should focus on the enhancement of "comparative advantage" for specific troops. e.g. increase in damage range, shot number, and finally doubt-shot for shooters. Increase in att/def,hp and finally double strike for ground units. Increase in speed, att/def and finally no-retarliation for flying units. Increase in resistance and ability to cast some spells for "magic" units like monks, magi etc.
III) CHANGE OF UNITS
After a certain level, the player can choose the path of advancement for troops (just like those system for many RPG games). For example, at ultra-elite level, cavalier can be changed to EITHER Holy Cavalier OR Royal Cavalier. For Holy Cavalier will have some resistance to death magic and limited spell casting e.g. cure, dispel. For Royal Cavalier will have increased speed and always has max. morale.
Another example: wolf-raider can either become armored wolf-raider with greatly increased defense value or frenzy-wolf-raider with triple strike ! But picking different path (or career ), you can get different special ability.
IV) LUCK
I think one more attribute can be added to troops: luck. IMHO, luck becomes overlooked in the current game. You got increase damage with luck. But how about bad-luck ???
Maybe we can make it that:
For "luck" you can either inflict greater damage when attacking or take less damage when defending. At extremely bad luck, you may even miss your shot (the wind blow away your arrow ) or your blow ( you step on a banana skin and slip away )
By advancing in levels, troop will increase its luck attribute and hence have more chance to do 2X damage or avoid be killed.
I am quite poor in calculation, so I don't know the implication of my suggestion on programming. I just write this message as ideas pop up in my mind. Hope you like it.
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kuraizen
Adventuring Hero
Welcome to the Killing Fields
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posted April 12, 2001 07:35 AM |
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is ay no on the luck thing, i'm not explaining it either
i think what we need is an over all advancment IN the caslte, or recruitment, because every week you are getting new recruits, and then your upgraded ones have to be held out of battle until your new ones get enough exp to level, and than they can finaly rejoin the army who needed the troops to take the next castle, and then you have two castles worth of troops to exp up before you can continue looting piliging and plundering,
maby what should be is a turn clock set when you build a building, and after so many days it produces higher creatures, showing a better training,
maby you could bring back so many of the higher level troops and they will be sent to train, say 20-3upgrade troops brought back will upgrade the town building to 2upgrade creatures,
my finaly idea, have training battles inside the castle, which offer training up to, but not beyond, what you already have battle hardend 2*creature level troops to,
ie level one troops you only need two creatures to do the training, level 2 creatures you need 4, level 3 you need 6, this way the more powerfull creatures can't be sputed out max level with out some serious battling first,
but with this you don't upgrade the building, you have the "guildmasters" instaled, which is the creatures brought back, this way provides some quicker upgrades for smaller creatures, maby you think it should be opposite, or maby it would be better if it was just 10 of whatever, since more of the lower levels are produced anyway, so the time will go up naturaly with out number mods (since 2 skell warriors couldn't realy train 8 fresh skells to be good)
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Mystery
Famous Hero
Hatebreeder
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posted April 12, 2001 11:22 AM |
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Edited By: Mystery on 12 Apr 2001 05:25
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Units should get EXP only through killing enemys, otherwise it's too eas
OK, maybe it can go like this: When I am in a castle and I have upgraded units, but the castle has an unupgraded dwelling, I can upgrade the dwelling for a fee but only if I have a sufficient amount of evolved units, for example:
to upgrade lvl 1 dwelling I need: 30 2nd evolution units OR 20 3rd evolution units OR 10 4th evolution units.
and to upgrade Hydra dwelling I need: 10 2nd evolution Hydras OR 7 3rd evolution Hydras OR 4 4th evlution Hydras.
Understand? to upgrade a dwelling I need a certain amount of its units according to the level of the dwelling, the more evolved the units are, the less of them are needed to upgrade the dwelling.
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D3@th t0 Fals3 m3Tal!
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Mojo
Hired Hero
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posted May 16, 2001 01:50 PM |
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Re: Creature Experience
I've played heroes for quite sometime, and I think creature experience would be great. But to balance out the experience obtained from fights, maybe when you gain experience you should be able to choose whether it goes to you, or to your creatures. This way if your hero has expert secondary skills, he can give the expeirence to the units/creatures and they too can gain levels and perhaps new attacks or skills. For example if a group of rogues got a lvl up, they could have +5% for assasination.
It's just a thought, and I do like the group experience idea!
(p.s. if someone knows where I can get facts on heroes 4, please tell me)
Thanks everyone
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gradenko2000
Tavern Dweller
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posted May 16, 2001 06:36 PM |
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If creatures are going to upgrade/evolve after reaching a specific exp level then they should only be able to do so if you have the right upgraded structure.
For Ex: Before Red Dragons can evolve into Black Dragons you must upgrade the Dragon Cave
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arachnid
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted June 05, 2001 10:02 PM |
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For the one that came up with the *new* idea
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