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| Thread: Pledge of Allegence | |
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redhawk
Known Hero
Gaurdian Supreme
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posted February 02, 2004 08:45 AM |
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Pledge of Allegence
I pledge allegence to the flag, of the united states of America. And to the republic for which it stands, One nation under God, Indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
Now lets break this down, "I pledge allegence to the flag, of the united states of America". Pledge allegence to a what? a flag. NO WAY ! I pledge it to the country, and the people for which it exists. Next is "And to the republic" This is A democracy, not A republic, Even though it was originally founded that way. Last is " One nation under god, INDIVISIBLE " In the Constitution we have what you call separation of church and state, If this is true, then how can we be a nation inseperable from God. Now I am A patriot, A soldier, And I go to church, Imagin my confusion about this topic. My only solution is for the pledge to be changed so that it is Constitutionally correct. The other parts of it, I wil just have to deal with it. Who can help clear up my delemma.
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It's better to burn out, Than fade away !!!!!!!!
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted February 02, 2004 09:48 AM |
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Don't Take My Word For It
Quote:
I pledge allegiance to the flag, of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisable, with liberty and justice for all.
RedHawk,
I claim "no religious preference". It says so on my dog tags. You gotta lighten up. When you say the pledge don't think of what's wrong with it. Think, perhaps, about ordinary people. Think about people that grew up on farms or in cities working for mere cents on the dollar. Think about people like Thomas and Eileen Broderick, Charles O.Van Gorder, Wesley KO, James and Dorothy Dowling, Rev. Harry Reginald Hammond, Lloyd Kilmer, and Gordon Larsen.
"These men and women came of age in the great depression, when economic despair hovered over the land like a plague. They had watched their parents lose their businesses, their farms, their jobs, their hopes."
These people took the oath and recited the pledge. They helped saved the world from a madman. They all fought for those words with honor and dignity. Many died with the same vows.
"They answered the call to help save the world from the two most powerful and ruthless military machines ever assembled, instruments of conquest in the hands of fascist maniacs. They faced great odds and a late start, but they did not protest."
The Greatest Generation (Tom Brokaw)
It is not the pledge of allegiance that you should be focusing your detailed criticism on. Look towards the government, Congress, and other such powerful organizations for corrupt men. This pledge is honorable and many have died for what it says in great honor. Look for the men and not the words. Once you have caught them then their words become meaningless.
But.....don't take my word for it. Write to your local Congressman/woman and ask what he/she thinks on the matter. Ask your congressperson to provide you with the names of people you can talk to who fought in world war II for America. Only after you speak with a veteran and hear what they have to say then form your opinion. I have found their words are the most valuable concerning this particular matter.
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Roses Are Red And So Am I
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Khaelo
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Underwater
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posted February 02, 2004 03:52 PM |
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Edited By: Khaelo on 2 Feb 2004
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It was my impression that the "under God" part was added in the 1950's during the McCarthyism communist hunt. It can and should be removed. When reciting the pledge, I usually just omit it personally. The "indivisible" makes more sense when placed right after "one nation."
"Republic" is a subset of democracy. The U.S is indeed a republic. We elect representatives to hold power but who are accountable to us; that's the definition of "republic." The other option, direct democracy a la ancient Athens, would be a tad bit unwieldy in a nation of ~254 million people.  Referandums are the closest we've got to that system.
The flag is the symbol of the nation. You are not pledging allegiance to a piece of cloth, but to the nation itself.
Edit: oops, saw redhawk's post in "military" thread. Uninformed speculation removed!
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bjorn190
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
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posted February 02, 2004 04:28 PM |
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If you start a post about the USA and patriotism.. its not smart 
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redhawk
Known Hero
Gaurdian Supreme
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posted February 02, 2004 07:03 PM |
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Consis/ Khaelo, Thankyou for the explanations and advice, they are both helpful. Bjorn190 , don't know what you ment by that, I just ask A question, and provided an explanation for that question, isn't that what this is all about, OR am I just missunderstood!
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It's better to burn out, Than fade away !!!!!!!!
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AzureMajesty
Promising
Adventuring Hero
Gaea Mother Earth
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posted February 09, 2004 03:13 AM |
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I found this and thought it might be appropriate here in regards to the Pledge of Allegiance:
I Pledge Allegiance I Promise to be faithful and true (Promise my loyalty)
to the flag to the emblem that stands for and represents
of the United States all 50 states, each of them individual, and individually represented on the flag
of America yet formed into a UNION of one Nation.
and to the Republic And I also pledge my loyalty to the Government that is itself a Republic, a form of government where the PEOPLE are sovereign,
for which it stands, this government also being represented by the Flag to which I promise loyalty.
one Nation under God, These 50 individual states are united as a single Republic under the Divine providence of God, "our most powerful resource" (according to the words of President Eisenhower)
Indivisible, and can not be separated. (This part of the original version of the pledge was written just 50 years after the beginning of the Civil War and demonstrates the unity sought in the years after that divisive period in our history)
with Liberty The people of this Nation being afforded the freedom to pursue "life, liberty, and happiness",
and Justice And each person entitled to be treated justly, fairly, and according to proper law and principle,
for All. And these principles afforded to EVERY AMERICAN, regardless of race, religion, color, creed, or any other criteria. Just as the flag represents 50 individual states that can not be divided or separated, this Nation represents millions of people who can not be separated or divided.
Now, a little additional information here, the current Pledge has 31 words while the orginal writing of the Pledge had just 23 & consisted of these words:
I pledge allegiance to my Flag,
and to the Republic for which it stands,
one Nation indivisible,
With Liberty and Justice for all.
October 11, 1892
It was written in preperation of the October 11th, 1892 celebration of the Discovery of America.
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted February 09, 2004 06:47 AM |
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Indeed Bjorn190
Quote:
If you start a post about the USA and patriotism.. its not smart
I don't care how smart you think I feel about my country. I was born in America and I have the right to be as proud as I want. I live here and I see the people who work hard every day to make a better living for themselves and their children. If I get thrown out of this forum for being proud of my national heritage then so be it. I don't care if all my posts are deleted for my being proud of where I come from. I will not be silenced by some kind of anti-american internet chat forum if that is what you are insinuating about the Heroes Community. In the time that I have been here I have received nothing but warm welcomes from most the community members. I like the people here and it seems like this could be the start of some new friendships for me.
If you hate America then why haven't you posted in the Hate America thread? If you don't like this thread then don't click on the link. It is that simple.
I will tell you that you won't have to worry about me ever bashing your country. I don't have any problems with Sweden. I very simply am proud of the people I grew up with and the work they have done to make a better living for themselves.
Why don't you start a thread for your country's pledge of allegiance? I would be interested in hearing some historical facts about Sweden. I would also like to learn more about foreign countries from their native citizens. I know almost nothing about Sweden.
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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redhawk
Known Hero
Gaurdian Supreme
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posted February 10, 2004 02:24 AM |
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azuremajesty, Thanks for the info, I have never seen it broke down like that before. It has given me new insight, and alot to ponder. Consis, The way that you wrote your post made me feel refreshed in the thought that there ARE still others that feel the same way I do. I was worried that people would take my post the wrong way, I'm not very articulate when it comes to expressing myself, I usually yell and scream.AKA. that drill sargent mentality.
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It's better to burn out, Than fade away !!!!!!!!
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