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| Thread: AUTOMATION -- HOMM4 TOH | |
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vesuvius
Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
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posted July 14, 2001 07:26 AM |
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AUTOMATION -- HOMM4 TOH
This is the gist of my association with the professional programmers who are going to do the advanced automation for TOH. View for yourselves the detail entailed; and the expenses -- Possibly over $5000 ($125 for each hour of work)
I show this to the players to understand that all this comes out of my pocket, and though it is a 'hobby' it is an expensive and time consuming one. Sometimes I get sick of those who can only make negative commentary about it all.... I do this for the love of the game, community and TOH. So when some of you there sit idly thinking this is some grand master plan for me to make money, fame or no thought is put into TOH, look again, sit back and realize the time, effort, and thought that made TOH successful, and what the next generation of TOH in homm4 is to be.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Troxel <dant@syspac.com>
To: 'Rob Simyar' <vesuvius@cyberspeedway.net>
Cc: <dant@syspac.com>; <brandon@syspac.com>
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 4:33 PM
Subject: RE: Getting started w/ TOH IV
> I have included an estimate of time it will take for some of the
> sections. This will give you a rough idea of the time involved. To get
> started, I need a fax number so I can send over an Authorization
> document, which basically is a welcome letter, and an agreement that you
> or I will not entice our employees to work for the other.
>
> I will also fax over a Project Authorization that you would sign, that
> shows in written form what the estimates of the different projects would
> be. If you could also reply back with your full address, phone, etc., I
> can place that in our Rolodex. The final thing to get the ball rolling
> is a Project Deposit of $2500. We work on a retainer basis. After a
> couple of months, I am sure we can start billing you for any work that
> is done. The Project Deposit will be applied to any work done beginning
> on day one.
>
> Here is an idea of what is involved. If any of this is not on the mark,
> let me know.
>
>
> The goal is to automate the website, where it is logical to do so,
> reducing the amount of time to maintain the site daily, but yet still
> keep the "personal touch" that many of the sites patrons have come to
> enjoy and appreciate.
>
> Most of the time will be for the back end of the website, where it
> interacts with the SQL database. Some time will be used to format web
> pages, but generally, I am assuming that you (Robert) will be
> responsible for the graphical design and look. (If I am incorrect with
> that assumption, please let me know).
>
> I will send to you regular updates as to the progress we are making.
> This will be after any significant time has been spent (several hours).
> The main reason for this is so you can control your costs, and have a
> hand in the development of the site, each step of the way.
>
> Also please note that the time shown here are estimates. As we move
> deeper into the project, we will be able to use software code and
> functions that were developed earlier. This will reduce the time
> required for each part of the project, thus reducing cost for you. J
>
> - Cluster Database Setup: 2-4 hours
> Creation of TOH database, tables fields, indexes, etc., to be used by
> the web site. It would help greatly if we had access to the current
> site, so that we could pull the current database layout. This will help
> speed up the design and layout of the database.
>
>
> - New Player Registration Page: 5-8 hours (depending on Administrator
> interaction)
> A form that has a variety of fields that needs to be filled out by a new
> TOH player. When the player submits their information, the system will
> check availability of the username. If available, and all required
> fields have been filled in, a rules/stipulations page displays. This
> page is to notify the user of the rules of the site, and what the
> Administrators can do to their account, if they break certain rules. If
> they agree to all stipulations/rules, the player's information will be
> posted to a database.
>
> If required, we can add the ability of an Administrator to
> approve/disapprove a player's admission to TOH. If approved, an email
> can be sent to them welcoming them to TOH. We could also add the ability
> for a user to make certain information private, so that it is not
> searchable or displayed on the player search screens.
>
> This page will also be used by a player, to edit his/her profile. Access
> to this section of the site will be validated through their password.
>
>
> - Find Players: 3-5 hours (depending on required returned results)
> A form that allows players to search for other players. A variety of
> fields will be available to search on, and the return results will
> display a variety of information on a player. Certain items may not be
> viewable to players, depending on user requested privacy issues.
>
> You may want to only allow registered players to use this function. If
> we were to do this, it would require the person to login to the website.
> You might want to think of areas that only registered players are
> allowed access to. This would increase visits to the website, and TOH
> camaraderie.
>
>
> - Submit Win/Loss: 1-2 hours
> This page allows players to submit their win or loss. This will update
> the database, that an Administrator will work with later.
>
>
> - Unreported Win/Loss: 2-3 hours
> This report will show players who has not submitted their status
> (generally a loser). This allows a player (generally a winner) to police
> their own games. This will also be a good place for "honorable" players
> to check who they are willing to "battle" with.
>
> It may be a good idea to have an area where (registered) players can
> submit an email, through a form, requesting the other user to please
> submit their win/loss.
>
>
> - Player Rankings: 4-6 hours
> A database query results screen that shows players ranking depending on
> their attained rank. This page will display the player's Code Name,
> Points, Wins, Losses and Medals earned. This results screen can run as
> many times a day as you like, even live if you wish, depending on how
> often the win/loss submissions are updated.
>
> One possible thing you might want to do, is when a user achieves a new
> rank, an email is sent to the player, notifying him/her of the change.
>
>
> - Hall of Fame: 3-5 hours (need more details as to what goes on these
> pages - a guess)
> This section will pull from the database, certain players that have
> achieved certain points, rank, etc.
>
>
> - Maps: 1-2 hours
> This section will display the currently uploaded maps to TOH. There will
> also be something that shows that a map is "NEW" to the page. Possibly
> showing these first on the page. New maps will be added under the
> Administrator pages.
>
>
> - Player Profiles: 5-10 hours (?)
> This section will allow users, of a certain rank, to add their profile
> to the database. (We will need to discuss this in a bit more detail, to
> determine how I need to program this. The time here may be a little
> high, but after a bit more discussion with you, I will have a better
> idea.)
>
>
> - Administrator Screens: 25 hours (a guess)
> These sets of screens will be password protected, so that only players
> that are given "Administrator" privileges, access to this area of the
> website. This access will be controlled through a set of permissions, so
> that each Administrator will only have access to certain areas. Example:
> You might have a couple of Administrators that take care of new maps,
> but do not have access to adding medals to players.
>
> This section would allow an Administrator with the proper security to:
> add/delete medals to/from a player
> add/delete maps
> add/delete/edit other player profiles and registrations
> add/delete/edit/approve win/loss submittals
>
> We can also add the ability to notify Administrators that a particular
> responsibility has not been done. This can be done through email, or
> even a pager.
>
> Here is a rough idea as to how much time it takes to do different areas
> of the site. Once again, keep in mind: Once we have a basic
> template/design to a particular area of the site, programming other like
> areas are much faster.
>
> ---
> Dan Troxel
> Systems Solutions Inc. - "A Level Higher" than the rest!
> 2108 E. Thomas Road - Suite 103 - Phoenix, AZ 85016
> Office: 602-955-0900 - Fax: 602-977-7313 - Email: dant@syspac.com
> www.syspac.com / www.alevelhigher.com
>
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Kuma
Promising
Supreme Hero
u can type so much text in her
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posted July 14, 2001 05:58 PM |
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*Kaboom!* shot down again... 
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People used to call me crazy, but now that I'm rich I am excentric.
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jb239
Famous Hero
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posted July 14, 2001 07:06 PM |
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if chosen right...sponsors could help
I know ves had a bad experience with website sponsors in the past, but there are many out there, and many may not be worth it, but there are some who are real professionals and pay well if you get traffic to your own domain. Itd take some research, and maybe he wants to keep it advertisement free, but itd contribute money nonetheless, and with even more traffic, there would be more hits and impressions.
If advertisements are out of the question, then there really no way to earn back money unless u sold stuff urself or charged peeps.
But if you consider it, I can research a few of the bigger companies who advertise for you. See what you could possibly earn...and maybe u can get one related to games to fit in with the theme.
anyways...scary how much it costs, so thought Id throw in my 2 cents worth 
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I will not lose.
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vesuvius
Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
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posted July 15, 2001 01:19 AM |
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sponsorship
JB, I am not necessarily the best at business savvy... If you or anyone could find true sponsors, I would be happy to have them support TOH.
But beyond that, TOH remains FREE now, and in homm4.
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted July 15, 2001 04:36 PM |
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JB is da man!
I never thought about sponsership. That is a great idea, that would work much better, if you can get it to work. Sounds kewl.
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zedrin
Known Hero
Ping pong goes the gong
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posted July 15, 2001 10:34 PM |
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sponsors
Good idea, but not like in the past... When the choice of clicking or not clicking a banner is left up to the players very few will click...
I propose something like when you report a game, preferably a win, since the mood is better then, you are taken directly to the sponsor page. Of course this can only be done there, since in other areas it would become quite unpleasant... Of course i haven't the faintest idea what i am saying, since my programming skills are void
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"Blow wind! Come wrack
At least we die with harness on our back" - Shakespeare, Macbeth
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Murphy
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
banned
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posted July 15, 2001 10:54 PM |
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hmmm, good idea but those are so annoying! i click on something and it automatically loads to a sponser page... but ofcourse u could always say yo if u want to keep this site on the net, please help by click ing on the banner...
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madmartigan
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
who will never walk alone
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posted January 11, 2003 01:51 AM |
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look what I ve found while exploring last pages.
Year 2001, and we are talking about the release homm4.
And the start of automation.
Thank you, Vesuvius, for creating ToH
Best regards
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Kittenangel
Supreme Hero
Lee's wifey
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posted January 11, 2003 08:02 AM |
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Yes we owe Ves quite alot, and Ves I am truley thankful for all you put into ToH and out there for the community.
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Never wear anything that panics
the cat.
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vesuvius
Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
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posted January 11, 2003 09:42 AM |
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thanks for the reminder :)
Man it seems not so long ago, but time does go by. I still debate to this day if that $5000 dollar plunge was worth it, not because of the players, but what 3d0 has done to the homm franchise. I had such massive hopes for homm4, anticipating activity levels that would triple the best of season III.
But on the flipside, the automation has helped keep both homm worlds alive now, and eased me and the volunteers' work levels.
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EvilLoynis
Famous Hero
The Dark Shadow
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posted January 12, 2003 12:58 AM |
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THANKS!!!
I would just like too add my thanks to the others. Teriffic job.
I had no idea just how much work and money went in too making and maintaining these types of sites.
I will hopefully be playing more often in 2 weeks or so. Getting a DSL internet connection. So now I won't have to spend money too go too internet cafes too play.
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"I am both selfish and instictive. I value nature and the world around me as means to an end as well as an end in itself; at best I ... too long to display...
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Poser
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 17, 2003 03:28 AM |
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Thx for the things you put into the site but I wold like to say one thing
They are ripping you off..
6 hours for user reg?
takes 2 min to make the html, 10 min to make the check...
what... I did alot of large dynamic projects(php on a mysql backend) for free... I think your gettin rippid off here
but thx
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dEth8
Promising
Known Hero
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posted January 17, 2003 03:32 AM |
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Quote:
Thx for the things you put into the site but I wold like to say one thing
They are ripping you off..
6 hours for user reg?
takes 2 min to make the html, 10 min to make the check...
what... I did alot of large dynamic projects(php on a mysql backend) for free... I think your gettin rippid off here
but thx
User reg is not automatic because there is still a bit of desired manual oversight instead of relying entirely on the indescriminate eye of automation. Hope that helps, or maybe I didn't understand you fully.
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AndiAngelsla...
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
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posted January 17, 2003 05:27 AM |
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Quote:
But beyond that, TOH remains FREE now, and in homm4.
I dont think you can take money for H4 anyway, you would rather need to pay some...
Sorry i couldnt resist loool
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dEth8
Promising
Known Hero
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posted January 17, 2003 05:34 AM |
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sos
Known Hero
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posted January 17, 2003 06:04 AM |
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nah - heroes 4 rocks in multi. There are 2 things that need fixing tho - random maps and transfer time
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salpinx
Hired Hero
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posted January 17, 2003 07:14 PM |
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Poser - you are not taking into account the planning, design, talking with the client, testing, redisigning, etc. When it comes to doing projects for clients for money, your ability and speed to code functionality is a miniscule part of the process.
That is a very reasonable quote IMO and outlined pretty well.
- salpinx
Quote:
Thx for the things you put into the site but I wold like to say one thing
They are ripping you off..
6 hours for user reg?
takes 2 min to make the html, 10 min to make the check...
what... I did alot of large dynamic projects(php on a mysql backend) for free... I think your gettin rippid off here
but thx
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Poser
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 17, 2003 08:23 PM |
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Edited By: Poser on 17 Jan 2003
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1. Most of the site is done.. just to make it dynamic(automated)
2. Everything is planned already(read #1)
Here, for the loss submittion,
- Submit Win/Loss: 1-2 hours
> This page allows players to submit their win or loss. This will update
> the database, that an Administrator will work with later.
ok, so i take the current loss report form, use its graphics(they arent making graphics)
edit the code, add 2 lines for a check, 2 lines to submit to database.. woah thats done
whats there to plan? nothing.... u clikc a button and it submits! :/
I just dont like people taking adventage of people.
Im guessing Vas doest know asp/sql very well, because, asp... is.. very very easy. Anyone can learn it within 2 min and start coding.
My boss paid around $10k for a shopping cart(professional coders)
Once it was completed, i took a look... it was so poorly done :/ looks almost stolen heh. Professional doest always mean the best. Vas there are alot of people willing to code for free.. and 10x better then the pros or whoever is doing yours.. I guess its your dicision
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Karim26
Known Hero
Land of Snowfall & Sunshine
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posted January 17, 2003 09:33 PM |
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Thanks to ToH, I Manage to remain sane!
I remember 2 years ago........lost my job, didn't much $$$, no girlfriend, no car......but I did have a fast computer and HommIII.
If I could only remember the name of the individual who directed me to ToH back then; I'd thank him 1000 times.
Since I became a member of ToH I:
- purchased a car
- found new work which pays very good $$$
- found good-looking female friends who found it cute to play Heroes
Thanks Ves.
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