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Heroes Community > Heroes 7+ Altar of Wishes > Thread: Wandering Monsters
Thread: Wandering Monsters This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · «PREV
Sha_Men
Sha_Men


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Supreme Hero
Jack-Of-No-Trades
posted July 18, 2001 11:26 PM

Yes, might heroes...

could have advantage on this, but it's hard to say how might/magic heroes are balanced in the upcoming game. But if there would be secondary skill like leadership that would affect the rank effect it could work like intelligence skill is now.

Neat idea would have spell that could allow hero to control more creatures at time than usually. This would allow magic heroes have kinda magical control over creatures rather than military might or leadership power...
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Oldtimer
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Supreme Hero
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posted July 18, 2001 11:33 PM

If you had Might heroes to control masses of troops with a global influence of his Rank or how about Nobility skill?

Maybe you would need Magic hero to help control the big magic monsters like dragons or titans.

Or have the tech tree choices in town reflect the choice of troop like creatures for a might based hero or magical creatures for magic based heroes.
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Sha_Men
Sha_Men


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Supreme Hero
Jack-Of-No-Trades
posted July 19, 2001 12:31 AM

Hmm...

Tech tree should maybe remain as "neutral" feature I think.

Maybe it could be skill called nobility or something like that.

I still hardly can believe 3do will implent this kind of system. I mean they want to develop the game but it would add the game "too much" depth and if we are looking console games they must be simple. Heroes propably try to concentrate into simplicity and this kind of control could be pretty hard to understand by some people...

Some just want to game be crashing and dashing game and not game of true strategy...

Hmm...very weird that there are so few posters to this thread as there were in the other thread "raize towns" it propably tells how much people really are interested about these ideas when main concern is there six or four levels and fewer creatures than in HoMM3.

What most sad thing is that 3do will want to listen them rather than us...What is the difference between us and them...None, that's the sad part...

I think I was little bit out of the topic here, but I'm kinda tired that there are so few posters that really want to consider things and think how things could be implented into the game.

Most people here make just wishes that could be considered as wishes for genie lamps...not as new ideas or designs...

Surely I would like to see this control thing in HoMM but what is the chance that it could make it through?
It's minimal...As you can see how many people are interested about the whole thing...

Bottom line is it's great idea...
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Oldtimer
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posted July 19, 2001 12:50 AM

The dialogue might be too long for some to consider. Especially when we start with a simple idea of "wandering monsters" and it leads to discussion of rank and nobility and how they could affect the game.  I think the idea of rank is actually more important to the gameplay than the original wandering monster idea, but there will probably be mobile nutral units in the new game.

This thread is called alter of wishes and my wishes tend to be if we could improve or speculate on game play and how our ideas might work, instead of cosmetic aspects dealing with new monster names.  If there are not enough creatures in new game then 3do will come out with expansion, and every one will be excited to buy it because there favorite creature is back.

But I would like more people to join the dialouge, but if they don't they can go on calling each other names and clogging other threads.
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Sha_Men
Sha_Men


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Supreme Hero
Jack-Of-No-Trades
posted July 19, 2001 01:08 AM

Let's not be hit down...

Maybe we should continue posting these kind of things and I must say that we should not try to be affected the blaming or stuff like that.
I was just thinking how much use there is to post as there are so few here to be replying here. Maybe it's better that there aren't too many blaming these ideas as trash...

I'm usually critical about ideas of others and very critical of my own, but I have feeling we have really something on here...

This Rank idea is much more important I was just thinking maybe there should be new thread called "ranks and control of units" it would distract people to read it and maybe even add some comments...
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Oldtimer
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posted July 19, 2001 03:46 AM

I don't think that Nobility rank would be too tough to implement, It would just be another set of numbers too add to the hero.

Each town type could have unique rankings for both might and magic heroes:

Tower wizards could start at novice and work themselves up to archmage.

Castle Knights could start as squires and move up to King.

Necromancers could start as interns and move up to lord of the dead.

If we write it, they will come...
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Wiseman
Wiseman


Known Hero
posted July 19, 2001 07:06 AM

I was reading this thread  since the begining.Only reason i didn`t post anything is because you guys drained all good ideas about the subject.

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angelspit
angelspit


Famous Hero
Warrior of the Heavens
posted July 19, 2001 02:03 PM

I agree. Your threads are some good reading. Please go on.
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Lars
Lars

Tavern Dweller
posted July 19, 2001 02:44 PM

Wandering creatures

All the ideas about how to change the wandering parties, and how they act, all sounds fine to me as long as there are no random encounters such as in the final fantasy series.
This sucks!!

And we must keep in mind that the more we want to change homm the more the game loses his identity.
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arachnid
arachnid


Promising
Famous Hero
posted July 19, 2001 02:48 PM

To me its not needed in heroes i think levels and skills work fine how they are. (Its simple to use and understand remember this aint a wargame its a game for adults and children to be able to play)
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Sha_Men
Sha_Men


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Supreme Hero
Jack-Of-No-Trades
posted July 19, 2001 05:58 PM

I kinda agree...at least a little bit...

With two above posters (Lars and Arachnid)...

We don't want to change heroes too much. But HoMM IV is said to be lot different when compared to HoMM 3.

But if the gameplay is keep simple enough we can see that rank system could work alongside with morale and luck. It's not hard to implent in my opinion and this would add (in my opinion) needed strategic depth so Heroes won't rest in it's laurels and won't develop. I'm afraid that there is the chance that Heroes won't develop in another way than in graphics and in the number of creatures as it seems people are much more concerned about these than some "real" changes. Gamecompanies should never think that "let's just publish this same game in different package and they will buy it." That's what expansions are for.

Of course, there is saying that what isn't broken shouldn't be fixed in the first place, but I see that change is always needed. And if we are talking about adding one "primary" skill and "secondary" skill this isn't really change that would put things upside down.

I can say that I remember when I first time read review about King's bounty a long time ago. I was thrilled about the game and looked picture that was black and white million times, but I never found the game from where I live. When heroes 1 game out it was something truly special. Heroes 2 was pretty big leap from Heroes 1 but we can't say the same thing about Heroes 3. It seems that next big leap will be Heroes IV and if there are going to be some "big" changes towards the idea of bringing development of heroes into next level as Maranthea said this was pretty much the case, Rank and control system would in my opinion be perfect for it.

Heroes isn't pure wargame but surely there are elements of it. It's more like idea of bringing heroes live through computer screen and I can't think better way add depth to this than ranks.

I just love Heroes and it's fine as it stands now but it could be better. I have always find that there are only few games around nowadays in the world of computer games that has such great potential as Heroes. I mean it has great idea behind it, lot's of interesting features and new heroes is adding even more customization as it adds scripting to mapmaking. But there are always room for new ideas and what I think is great that it seems 3do really listens to it's fans. It's about what we want in the first case. How in the name of democracy and the freedom of speech there's chance that 3do will only listen things like adding cool new creatures and towns but leaving gameplay as it stands. Nobody wants to play same of tetris for rest of his life (in except pure lunatics) with only some new graphics changes. There need to be new ideas and this why this place is for.

I noticed now that maybe I went little too far away from the original subject but come to think of it, these are things that I always wanted to say but now I have found place to say it out loud.

Thank you for listening...
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Oldtimer
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posted July 19, 2001 07:22 PM

I think speculation on possible changes and/or improvements is an fun exercise and lets us think deeper about the game and maybe understand it better.

Magic heroes have wisdom.  This enables them to learn higher level spells.  Skills that are associated with wisdom are intelligence, sorcery, scholar, mystisism, 4 magic schools, eagle eye.  These skills give a magic hero a tremendous advantage.

There is no primary skill like wisdom for might heroes.
Leadership, armourer, tactics, offence, luck, first aid, artillery, ballistics(last two should be same skill),& archery are all usefull unit enhancing skills.

The question becomes should there be a new skill similiar to wisdom that lets hero control higher level troops.
We are calling that skill nobility.

I propose that hero types should start out with either wisdom or nobility when you start out.  During the game nobles can get wisdom or magic users can get nobility(who does not get wisdom for might heroes now?) but the choice would take up a skill slot for the associated skill.
Choose between nobility and intelligence for example or between tactics and wisdom.

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Sha_Men
Sha_Men


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Supreme Hero
Jack-Of-No-Trades
posted July 20, 2001 01:01 PM

I agree...

Wisdom is pretty important skill for magic users and if we look at different might skills there aren't so many important as wisdom for magic heroes.
This would create the difficul choice between, do I want to control more units or want to get know some new spells.
This would also make other heroes than main hero more important because when they go up with ranks enough you have chance to control more units globally.

Nobility could even affect what creature buildings you can build. This is of course only an idea, but how about you couldn't get those paladins before you have enough skill in nobility. They would also refuse to join you during adventuring if your level isn't high enough.
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arachnid
arachnid


Promising
Famous Hero
posted July 20, 2001 06:06 PM

hmm i thought this thread was heading down ranks more than new skills.

Oh well heres a few things i think would be good if ranks did appear in heroes:

I would like much more combat skills (other than tactics) things like dodge and skills that other creatures use like poison, blind ,hold and such like. Maybe might heroes could learn these if they improve in rank ?(magic could learn unique spellsEtime they gain a rank they could gain a new skill for there hero in combat.

This could even depend on what type of hero they are to what they gain (necros stuff like raise extra dead or steal life) (druids things like summon animal or there top one turn archers in to sharpshooters)

Or a totally other way to go could be to award them with being able to add bonus to troops ( add defence to dwarfs under there control or make them faster, more resistant)
So they could really work up one creature under there control or some on several.

Magic users for this idea could do something similar by being able to start a battle with bless spells and such like already on there units.
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Oldtimer
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posted July 20, 2001 06:28 PM

Nobility may work as a skill to enhance other battle skills and control greater amount of troops, I like that.

But having ranks apply to all heroes depending on there level may be able to work in conjuntion with this.

Magic users would only be able to use a certain amount of spells according to their rank. 1st level novice gets one spell, 20th level arch mage gets to use all spells he learns.  This would make people choose which spells they want to use before they leave the mage guild.

Might heroes would need need rank in order to command troops. a 1st level squire can control several 1st level creatures and a few 2nd level, but with the knight marshal in your army legions would now follow.  

If you don't have the nobility skill you cannot advance beyond a certain rank no matter what your level, similiar to wisdom where no matter what level you attain if you don't have wisdom some spells are not available.
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Sha_Men
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Jack-Of-No-Trades
posted July 20, 2001 07:12 PM

MoM...

In master of magic (if you have played it) each hero can gain I would say "fair" amount of different abilities.

As said earlier we wouldn't want to change the game too much into pure wargame but try to balance the new features with gameplay.

I say ranks and nobility would work well with current system. Maybe heroes could gain other specialties as they raise in their levels. Maybe the starting abilities will fade away as they are now and in exchange there would be more abilities to get. That magic rank could decide how many spells you can really learn.

There are many possibilities but I think all these ideas will come brighter (at least for me) when we see HoMM IV and see into which direction it goes to.
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Oldtimer
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posted July 20, 2001 08:10 PM
Edited by alcibiades at 16:29, 08 Jan 2008.

I believe the new heroes has 11 starting character types which can develop into 37(?) differing types once skills and mastery are learned.  Each primary skill now has 3 secondary skills which will really make the heroes more unique once they achieve the higher levels.

The rank idea could work in this system particularly since there is some rank achieved when you choose your advanced hero type.

But i think the rank idea we're discussing works in the HOMM3 arena because that is what we're used to.  When 4 comes out all of these streams will be moot and we will have to update our ideas in the "HOMM4 expansion alter of wishes".


Moderator's note:This topic has been closed, as it refers to an older version of the game. To discuss Heroes 3, please go to Library Of Enlightenment, to discuss Heroes 4, please go to War Room Of Axeoth.
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