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| Thread: Everything like the Church... |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · «PREV |
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Fenix
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In ranks of Nebwoocka Alliance
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posted April 12, 2004 09:34 PM |
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I don't know many Christians who still have opinion about "all Christian heaven". God is not a racist. Neither is Church.
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privatehudson
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The Ultimate Badass
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posted April 12, 2004 09:37 PM |
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The church can't afford to be these days  It's dogma still talks of it though. Plus just because you don't know them doesn't mean they do not exist.
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Fenix
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In ranks of Nebwoocka Alliance
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posted April 12, 2004 09:41 PM |
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Oh, they do exist, but in much smaller percentage.
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privatehudson
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posted April 12, 2004 09:43 PM |
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That remains to be seen. As I said though, the chuch still talks of the same things as this "small percentage" though which makes her point entirely valid. Which makes this a round in circles discussion
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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Fenix
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In ranks of Nebwoocka Alliance
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posted April 12, 2004 09:45 PM |
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So we should make a conclusion to end this magnificent debate
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Lews_Therin
Promising
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posted April 12, 2004 11:42 PM |
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Well, one fact is that the biblical Jesus preached in favour of a life in poverty.
And it´s another fact that the catholic church is the wealthiest organisation on planet earth.
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Svarog
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statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted April 13, 2004 02:00 AM |
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I don’t think there’s a place for a lot of humor in here, since everything posted so far is just a realistic analogy of how the church operates. And it’s more sad, than funny. But put that aside, the question is: Is the product that is sold worth the cost? If it is a worthy trade, then I don’t care about the way it’s sold.
And imho, Christianity has some very serious flaws, in spite of the overall “love, peace, forgiveness” idea , but don’t let me get into that, cause this place is about the church.
And I’d compare the product the church sells with television. Yeah, it helps you develop your personality, but if you get too many of it, or watch the bad program it will only harm you and make you its slave.
PS: In global economy, if there isn’t competition on the world market, or in individual countries, the companies most naturally start exploiting their consumers. Also, they use strategies (such as Microsoft) in order to maintain their monopolistic position, in case any signs of competition arise. They make their software incompatible with others, so that you are forced to buy from the same company for the rest of your life, and probably your children too. That’s just the way things work, darling. Viva La Revolucion! 
PS: I think PH’s right about what the church says.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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Consis
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posted April 13, 2004 03:33 AM |
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Edited By: Consis on 12 Apr 2004
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Actually
Quote:
And it´s another fact that the catholic church is the wealthiest organisation on planet earth.
Check your facts please. I know of atleast a dozen U.S.-led companies that are wealthier than the catholic church and that isn't even speaking of the Japanese based General Motors company.
If you are saying that the catholics are the wealthiest religious group in the world I'd have to disagree with that as well. I believe the wealthiest religious factions of the world line up more like this:
1. American Mormonism
2. World-wide Protestantism
3. Arabic Islam
4. Papal Catholicism
5. Eastern Orthodoxy(Middle eastern Europe and Russia)
I'd be happy to refer you to some books written on this very subject. It has been widely addressed and is a common topic of many debates here in the U.S.
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Roses Are Red And So Am I
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Fenix
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In ranks of Nebwoocka Alliance
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posted April 13, 2004 11:18 AM |
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Church is too wealthy, agreed. However, it uses its wealth to support culture treasures and for humanitary organisations.
Nevertheless, many priests live in luxury.
But, can you please stop talking about the religion as product? Cca 90 percent of people are members of some religion
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NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!
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Planeswalker
Famous Hero
Chaotic Good
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posted April 13, 2004 11:52 AM |
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In Norway, churches have to close down during winter because they have no money for heating. So don't come and tell me that church has all money - that was before.
But that's not catholic church, of course. lol
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terje_the_ma...
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Disciple of Herodotus
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posted April 13, 2004 12:10 PM |
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Quote:
In Norway, churches have to close down during winter because they have no money for heating. So don't come and tell me that church has all money - that was before.
But that's not catholic church, of course. lol
Well, that could be because our government has it's priorities elsewhere than in churches.... Luckily...
And I've noted that you argue about wether Man is Saved by faith or by deeds.
This was the theological question that speeded the Reformation of Luther.
Luther claimed that only God's mercy could Save us, while the Catholic church claimed that deeds could send us to Heaven as well (they had a large project going, where they tried to make lots of great Ancient philosophers and writers catholics on basis of this).
In recent years, the Pope has actually signed a paper that gives Luther right....
(I was in bit of a hurry when typing this, so it may have been quite confusing.... sorry about that...)
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"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.
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Fenix
Known Hero
In ranks of Nebwoocka Alliance
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posted April 13, 2004 12:26 PM |
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Yes, it was the Trident Council. Luther's philosophy was nominalism- Sola scriptura (Only the Bible), sola fides (only faith), and sola gratia (only mercy of God can save a man)
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NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!
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Lews_Therin
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 14, 2004 12:11 AM |
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Hello Consis,
you are right insofar that I made a guess, an estimation, and called it 'fact' - one should be more careful when talking about facts, considering the fact that this word has been used in current world politics in quite a miserable way.
I know literature which proves that the two big churches are the most wealthy corporations in Germany, but concerning the whole planet, I was not able to find a reliable source of information.
However, I did not only consider the vast extend of the vatican´s monetary wealth, and its huge numbers of unpayable treasures, but also their land-ownership. I do not think that many of the world´s biggest companies would be able to finance and maintain a local branch office in every village - and quite a large number of them in every bigger city - and all that in every western culture country!
You think that the Mormons are richer? They practically do not exist in Europe ...
I find my estimation likely to be correct, but I agree that it would be more accurate to say 'one of the world´s wealthiest corporations.', or replace the word 'fact' with 'probable'.
And well, no matter if General Motors has more wealth than Catholic Church, it´s amazing to see what has been made out of the message of the biblical Jesus, who very strictly preached against the accumulation of worldy possessions.
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Consis
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Of Ruby
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posted April 14, 2004 07:39 AM |
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Edited By: Consis on 14 Apr 2004
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