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Fenix
Known Hero
In ranks of Nebwoocka Alliance
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posted April 14, 2004 08:05 PM |
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Yes. It is written in religious point of view, of course.
And Roman text are very precise and accurate, not "loose". They were organised like nowadays countries.
Roman historiograph Plinius Junior wrote about Jesus. And everything we know about the Vesuve eruption is from his texts. A reliable source.
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Khaelo
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Underwater
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posted April 14, 2004 08:05 PM |
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Edited By: Khaelo on 14 Apr 2004
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Polytheism is multiple gods ("poly" = many). Mixing up different religions is eclectism. 
Edit: IIRC, Pliny wrote about Christians (asking about how Roman official should deal with them), not Jesus. I believe it was the Jewish historian Josephus who wrote a bit about Jesus himself.
Edit 2: Link-happy today...For definitions of the various religious -isms, try this thread, post #4, and for various pagan perspectives, including the multiple forms of polytheism, this poll might be helpful. And now, having exposed the other options, I retreat.
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Lews_Therin
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 14, 2004 08:07 PM |
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Quote:
I will check that. But Jesus isn't supossed to be born on 0. year. That was mistake did by Dionisius Exiguus.
Yes, I´ve taken that into account.
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Peacemaker
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
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posted April 14, 2004 08:08 PM |
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Some semanticians would suggest that the meaning of language and world views have changed so radically over the last two thousand years that we might never be able to glean the true meanings intended by biblical writings, even if they were intended to be "literal" restatements of truth, about which there is much doubt by many religious scholars themselves. Couple that with the cultural differences between then and now, and well, this document's limitations become apparent.
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Fenix
Known Hero
In ranks of Nebwoocka Alliance
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posted April 14, 2004 08:11 PM |
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Agree. I study Greek language in which the Bible is written. Word "school" means "rest" !
But those meanings are saved and are used in translations.
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted April 14, 2004 08:16 PM |
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Quote:
And Roman text are very precise and accurate, not "loose"
Not the point. Point was that one or two facts confirmed by a reliable Roman source is not enough to prove that Jesus rose from the dead and was the son of god. Roman historians and archeology can prove that some of the Emperors lived and did certain things, does that prove their claim to godhood when they made it? You're making a leap in your conclusion that the facts do not support. The loose remark is entirely about how you are linking roman evidence to the bible being unquestionable. No book on history is unquestionable. Reliable source is irrelevant as it's not proof of anything more than Jesus existing, which we already know anyway.
Let me add another analogy, if Geoffrey of Monmouth (a British medieval historian) wrote about Robin Hood, does that prove that Hood robbed from the rich and gave to the poor? Your point is limited in value.
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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Fenix
Known Hero
In ranks of Nebwoocka Alliance
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posted April 14, 2004 08:20 PM |
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It would matter to Robin's followers. But if Robin's acts would appear in offical documents, then it would be reliable fact. Roman writters did that also.
Perhaps someone could finaly present me your view? I want to see how your religious beliefs (or non-beliefs) stand in a debate.
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted April 14, 2004 08:23 PM |
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Quote:
It would matter to Robin's followers. But if Robin's acts would appear in offical documents, then it would be reliable fact. Roman writters did that also.
I trust this means that the Roman writter personally witnesses the events? Otherwise it needs more proof and/or logic to back the claims. And all that appears of Robin is names on records, no deeds.
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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Fenix
Known Hero
In ranks of Nebwoocka Alliance
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posted April 14, 2004 08:25 PM |
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Now i'm going to dinner. Tomorrow I will show myself again. God bless you! Good night.
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NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!
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Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
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posted April 14, 2004 09:07 PM |
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I'm surprised that nobody pointed out that there never was a year zero 
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Yolk and God bless.
---
My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
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Shirastro
Famous Hero
Happy happy joy joy
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posted April 14, 2004 10:39 PM |
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Ok people CHILL.
I only wanted to know whos a reall atheis around here.
Fenix stop trying to convince us that god exists, saying that you have historical proofs and asking "if god didnt creat the universe than who did?". Everithing that you are saying is based on sole faith. You dont belive in god becouse you were spiritualy "tuched" at certian point of your life. You dont belive in him/her becouse you have any proof that he exist. The only reason you belive in him is becose you were raised in society where you parents (probably) teached you that god exists. Its colled social constructivism (spelling?).
You live in society where most of people say that wemen with long legs or big t***s are more beautiful than those who dont have them. But if you would have been raised suronded by people that continusly say that short, fat breastless wemen are sexy, you would think that way too. You are heterosexual (i suppose) just becouse sociaty teached you that way, you think killing is wrong just becouse society teached you that way, 99,99% of the things you (we) think is just becouse we were "constructed" that way.
The same rule aplays for god and religion. People are far from perfect, they cant explain many things that are happening around us, but yet our little brain "need" to know the explanation. And when logic fails we invent thing that would please our ever-growing lust for knowlege.
10.000 years ago humans didnt know what a lighting is so they invented the god of lighting, 5000 years ago people started wondering what happens to them when they die so invented the god of the underworld, 2000 years ago they had a hard life and needed some hope for the future so they invented Jesus Christ.
I'll end this post with a bit of a cliche phrase: It wasnt god who created us, it was we who created him.
But if you want to belive in god , fell free to do so, thou i wont axept any atempts of you or anybody to try to "convert" me.
Religion broght so many bad thing to this world, that i consider it as big crime as the one comited to jews back in WW2.
P.S. Sorry for my bad spelling
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And now to the next post.
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Fenix
Known Hero
In ranks of Nebwoocka Alliance
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posted April 14, 2004 10:53 PM |
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Sorry for ruining your thread
I know what you mean, but my social surrounding influented my beliefs only by routing my faith to christianity.
I was thinking does the God exist myself.
Once again sorry, man, but you know how it is when you get into discussion.
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NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!
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Aquaman333
Famous Hero
of the seven seas
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posted April 14, 2004 10:53 PM |
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If you don't want people to try to prove God's existence, then why do you turn around and try to disprove his existence? Let's try to keep things fair here.
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"Brian, look! There's a message in my Alphabits! It says,
"OOOOOOO!"."
"Peter, those are Cheerios."-Family Guy
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Shirastro
Famous Hero
Happy happy joy joy
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posted April 14, 2004 10:56 PM |
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You are right i'm sorry for contradicting my self.
It just got out of hand when i started typing
And fenix you dont have to apologise, i just didnt wanted any useless discutions, but now that i think about it a bit more......the heck why not, its fun
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And now to the next post.
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Fenix
Known Hero
In ranks of Nebwoocka Alliance
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posted April 14, 2004 10:58 PM |
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I know I can't convert any of you, but I wanted to see how you would place arguments in open discussion. I suppose there's nothing bad in that...Untill a fight started
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Shirastro
Famous Hero
Happy happy joy joy
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posted April 14, 2004 11:00 PM |
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Now i see your Avatar in a much diffrent prospective
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And now to the next post.
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Fenix
Known Hero
In ranks of Nebwoocka Alliance
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posted April 14, 2004 11:03 PM |
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Good choice, huh?
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Vadskye91
Promising
Supreme Hero
Back again
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posted April 15, 2004 03:11 AM |
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Although my avatar isn't really best for defending the faith...
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Knowledge is power...
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drikx
Adventuring Hero
in little pieces on the floor
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posted April 15, 2004 03:24 AM |
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my hand is raised
when i was 8, i used to cry myself to sleep, fearing death, a god that wouldn't soothe me, everything was terror in my mind. if i did something like walk out the door wrong, i was assuring myself that i was going to hell, so one day, i got up and decided that there was nothing to fear, not some santa claus-ish being that watches me do what i do and judge me on these simple things, not some horrible place that i can only imagine, and certainly not death. that day i learned that death is a natural part of life, nothing can change this, not even science. everything dies, and when that happens, nothing you can do will bring them back.
i have been a much happier/calmer person since then.
that was more than 12 years ago
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and they say i'm lost, i lost this back in the war... whoops.
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted April 15, 2004 04:14 AM |
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Edited By: Svarog on 14 Apr 2004
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*raises hand*
The further you go from the philosophical pantheism, to the monotheistic, then to the Christian god, then to the Bible, and in the end, the church as the embodiment of religion, the less and less I have any doubts about my atheistic convincion. On the contrary, the more and more I despise them and blame them for many things that happen (have happened) to mankind and man as an individual.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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This thread is pages long: 
