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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Neutral town
Thread: Neutral town [ This thread is 2 pages long: (1) 2 ]
csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted May 16, 2004 03:39 PM
Edited By: csarmi on 16 May 2004

Neutral town

How strong this town would be? Strong? Weak? Unbalanced?

Base town: Conflux - you get no dwellings
Base terrain: Sand (you must have nomads)

creature.........a..d..dam...hp..sp..gr

Halflings.............4..2..1-.3...4...5..30.lucky
Rogues..............8..3..2-.4..10...6..16.spying
Nomads.............9..8..2-.6..30...7..14.sandwalker
Sharpshooters...12.10..8-10..15...9..10.ranged
Trolls................14..7.10-15..40...7...9.regenerating
Enchanters.........17.12...14...30...9...5.group caster
Fearie Dragons....20.20.20-30.500..15...2.offensive caster

not sure about growths and the fearies, however ...    

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ratmonky
ratmonky


Famous Hero
Abu Hur Ibn Rashka
posted May 16, 2004 04:24 PM

You left out peasants, mummies and boars. And aren't faerie Dragons too strong for level 7? - hp 500 vs 200-300 of other 7th levelers.
And I don't think they were supposed to be in a neutral town.
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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted May 16, 2004 04:39 PM
Edited By: csarmi on 16 May 2004

Of course I did, also left out golems and all the other dragons. There were some choices to make, you can have only 1 on all levels...

Fearie Dragons are too strong or too weak - depends on the situation.

Well, I guess the town does need their HP anyways.

Well I made some tests and they look overpowered. Should use only 1 feary per week, or maybe 1 rust dragon instead.

(tried them vs castle, won 5-0 with not much losses - only all the sharpshooters, generally)

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Frick
Frick


Known Hero
and eternal n00b.
posted May 18, 2004 07:00 AM

Hmm... A bit too strong. Sharpshooters, enchanters, halflings and fairy dragons? A whole lot of shooters. Remove the faerie dragons. I think they're too strong.

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Nebuka
Nebuka


Promising
Supreme Hero
Save me Jebus!
posted May 18, 2004 01:39 PM

Not sure, but think this town would be weakest of the lot.
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Maniak
Maniak


Adventuring Hero
posted May 18, 2004 05:41 PM

Halflings.............4..2..1-.3...4...5..30.lucky
Rogues..............8..3..2-.4..10...6..16.spying
Nomads.............9..8..2-.6..30...7..14.sandwalker
Sharpshooters...12.10..8-10..15...9..10.ranged
Trolls................14..7.10-15..40...7...9.regenerating
Enchanters.........17.12...14...30...9...5.group caster
Fearie Dragons....20.20.20-30.500..15...2.offensive caster

Halfilings as level 1 are fine.
Not sure what the spying ability of rogues does, but they are quite ok as level 2.
Nomads have quite a bit of health for a potent attacking level 3 creature, but its ok.
Sharpshooters are too strong, but at the same time, can u really reduce their production ? when it takes only 150 dmg to kill a 1 week production.
Trolls, I don't have any experience with those, but judging by their stats, they look quite ok, a bit weak as level 5, but that's good, I'd suggest leaving them at a grow of 8 per week...
Enchanters, are pretty strong too, but quite low in health and in dmg, so leaving them at 5 per week(probably with a special dwelling) is ok...
I think its quite ok to produce 2 Fearie Dragons per week, cuz they have quite low attack and defence skill, low damage and HIGH cost... Sure their spell is quite good, but it doesn't have the stats to fight as a level 7.

So all in all, I think it would be quite ok, seeing how it would cost 37350 + 16 gems gold per week to purchase all the creatures, the town would have some serious weakness and also the total health of a week's production(excluding the Fearie) would be 1320 and that is quite low, unless I am wrong...  

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angelito
angelito

Hero of Order
proud father of a princess
posted May 18, 2004 05:59 PM
Edited By: angelito on 18 May 2004

I would agree with Neb here.
I donīt think this town would be very strong.
The only advantage that i can see is, that it seems quit easy to built their dwellings (except fairies), only wood and ore..
But 30 hitpoints for a level 6 creature?....i thought the scorpicores were weak..

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bort
bort


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
posted May 18, 2004 06:03 PM

I always kind of assumed that any design for a neutral town would have to include excellent clock and chocolate makers as well as lots of banks and facilities to launder money for the other combattants.
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KingofMinota...
KingofMinotaurs


Known Hero
Ruling the minotaurs below
posted May 19, 2004 04:31 PM

Quote:
How strong this town would be? Strong? Weak? Unbalanced?

Base town: Conflux - you get no dwellings
Base terrain: Sand (you must have nomads)

creature.........a..d..dam...hp..sp..gr

Halflings.............4..2..1-.3...4...5..30.lucky
Rogues..............8..3..2-.4..10...6..16.spying
Nomads.............9..8..2-.6..30...7..14.sandwalker
Sharpshooters...12.10..8-10..15...9..10.ranged
Trolls................14..7.10-15..40...7...9.regenerating
Enchanters.........17.12...14...30...9...5.group caster
Fearie Dragons....20.20.20-30.500..15...2.offensive caster

not sure about growths and the fearies, however ...    


This is my opinion... Halflings are good average lvl 1's and they are shooters, not bad at all. Rogues look decent. Really good attack for a lvl 2, but def. and dmg. are quite low. They're growth looks a shade thin for a lvl 2 also. They're spying ability is good (which allows you to see everything in your town's thieves guild). If they didn't take away their no-retal. ability, they would definately be the best. Nomads have the best health as a lvl 3 I believe except maybe golems which have 35 or so... not sure on that. Attack/Defence is probably a little above-average. Average growth. Definately above average dmg range. Speed will do and their sandwalking ability is okay. Sharpshooters aren't too bad. Their no shooting penalty is awesome and dmg range isn't too bad either. Highest population for a lvl 4, along with Pegasi. Only bad thing is their extreme lack of HP. But I guess each creature has to have some weakness... Trolls have average attack and way below average defence. I suppose HP is ok (equal to Power Lich). Growth is rivaled only by the Dendroids with Dendroid Arches upgrade, and even then they still have an extra troop. Regenerating ability is good though, just as wights/wraiths. Dmg range is pretty bad. not as large as Minotaur Kings, but lower. Only range that's worse is Zealot, which is I think is 10-12 or 13. So keep trolls well defended with Shield/Stoneskin, etc. Enchanters really really REALLY lack HP as a lvl 6. You definately need to defend these. Attack is good but defence is lacking for lvl 6. No dmg range so good that it's constant, but no match for Naga Queens 30 constant. Dmg constant should be that of a lvl 5 maybe lvl 4. But since they are casters and help your troops, it could pretty much even out. Not sure if enchanters are just Master Genies in disguise . Not sure how powerful spells are, but they must be good for lvl 6. Faeires are really not lvl 7 when looking at their Attack/Defence. They don't seem to hold a place with those stats. Dmg range is lack also for a lvl 7. Naga Queens dmg is better. Not sure how offensive their spell is but HP is outstanding. High HP probably doesn't compensate for everything else, but perhaps if you have expert water magic and the cure spell, you could REALLY annoy your opponents.Or expert earth and ressurection. Or even both would really annoy him. But Faeries in my mind don't make a good lvl 7 creature at all, even with the extremely high HP.

In my opinion. I don't think this castle is unbalanced. I don't think they could totally crush or totally get defeated by opponents. I think it would be a fair castle to have. I think it would stand up fine on its own. Of course if it was really a castle, you couldn't just call it the Neutral Castle .

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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted May 19, 2004 05:21 PM

The point is that with a little map-making effort you can easily design a neutral castle. Just place dwellings, etc.

As for the troops:

Halfling: Good shooter, lacks HP.
Rogue: Good damage, lacks HP
Nomad: Finally a unit with enough HP, ok speed and damage.
Sharpshooter: Very "sharp" unit. Great damage, but falls like fly.
Troll: Lack of HP, attack-oriented again. Good damage I think.
Enchanter: Very low HP (that of Zealots), average damage, but good stats and casts a mass spell every 3rd round. Well if it intercasts a mass slow, the enemy will be very annoyed (you gain initiative).
Feary Dragon: HP at last, but leaving it at 2 growth can be very unbalancing. If the enemy has spell immunities, it's too weak (come one, 20-30 damage?), if not, it is too strong. Hard to kill. Casts random spells. If you get a good one, your opponent is pretty much dead. I made this town fight vs. Castle. 3 weeks growth. With 5 dragons vs 5 archangels it was a sensless battle. The dragons destroyed 1-2 stacks per turn. I lowered it to 3 dragons and they were still tough. My cold arrow (or how is this cold) did 320 damage to the archangels (107/dragon), and it is a low level spell. You can imagine getting Meteor Shower or Implosion...

Some facts that characterise this town well.
(the importancy of choosing target)

1. HP you get by level: (neutral/castle)
level 1: 30*4=120 -- 280
Level 2: 16*10=160 -- 180
Level 3: 14*30=420 -- 425
Level 4: 10*15=150(!)-- 280
Level 5: 9*40=360 -- 180
Level 6: 6*30=180(!) -- 400
Level 7: 2*500=1000(!) -- 500

2390 -- 2245

2. How many creatures required to kill 1 of the same type:
(the importancy of first strike)

Halfling: 2.4 -- Halberdier: 3.8
Rogue: 2.7 --- Marskman: 1.8
Nomad: 7.3 --- Royal Griffin: 5.6
Sharpshooter: 1.5(!) -- Crusader: 1.7      
Troll: 2.4 --- Zealot: 2.5
Enchanter: 1.7(!) -- Champion:~4
Feary Dragon: n/a -- Archangel: 5

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Maniak
Maniak


Adventuring Hero
posted May 19, 2004 09:11 PM

If I'm not mistaken Fearie Dragons cast spells as if they had 8 of spell power.... I'm really NOT sure on this, but I think u multiply the spell power by the number of fearies to get the effective damage dealt...

And as it was mentionned, its totally random... It can cast a chain lightning or an implosion(never seen) and that hurts a lot... but it can also cast a fireball, which is much more mellow, tho its still good... cuz when u think about it, its a no retaliation attack... but I'm not sure what it does against Gold , Green and red dragons since they can be affect by some offensive spells, but not all...

Also, about Fearie dragons, they might be incredibly weak in combat, but if u look at the Chaos Hydra, it has less attack skill and the same defense skill... Actually, half of the other level 7 creatures have attack and defense skill similar to the Fearie... And The fearie might not be immune to spells, but casting spell on it is risky, since it has a magic mirror in effect on itself... So you think twice before imploding it.

Really I think this is a fair town... with weaknesses, but also with strengths... So if u'd play that town wisely u could surely beat most towns, but if you don't, u'd surely be in major trouble....

The biggest problem is the cost of 1 week's production which is irrealisticly HIGH....

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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted May 19, 2004 09:19 PM

The cost is not set yet. Neither to build up the dwellings, nor to recruit them.

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Maniak
Maniak


Adventuring Hero
posted May 20, 2004 02:53 AM

The cost is already set up... each of those creatures have a price right now...

Halfling: 40
Rogue: 100
Nomad: 200
Sharpshooter: 400
Troll: 500
Enchanter: 750
Fearie Dragon: 10000 + 8G

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KingofMinota...
KingofMinotaurs


Known Hero
Ruling the minotaurs below
posted May 20, 2004 04:55 PM

Quote:
The cost is already set up... each of those creatures have a price right now...

Halfling: 40
Rogue: 100
Nomad: 200
Sharpshooter: 400
Troll: 500
Enchanter: 750
Fearie Dragon: 10000 + 8G


Most of these are good prices for what you're getting. Though sharpshooters cost more than Pegasi, Demons, and Medusas. They cost as much as Crusaders and Ogre Magi and are cheaper than Arch Magi and Vampire Lords. Troll is a pretty good price. Cheapest lvl 5 creature with highest pop. Enchanters are the cheapest lvl 6. And Faeries are way expensive for a lvl 7.
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LordZXZX
LordZXZX


Famous Hero
Overfished
posted May 21, 2004 11:52 AM

Which is why growth of 1/week makes sense. 8 gems is still damned expensive. 2 FD's/week would cost more than your weekly income.
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Maniak
Maniak


Adventuring Hero
posted May 21, 2004 12:58 PM

u make 28k per week with a capitol....
And can u imagine having only 1 Fearie elemental per week... this thing is too easily killed, sure its as much health as usually 2 level 7 of some other town, but its also the same dmg as ONE of the crappiest level 7 from other towns...  Sure it has other good abilities, but this town would need a creature that can't be totally destroyed by a lightning bolt casted at spell power 8.

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KingofMinota...
KingofMinotaurs


Known Hero
Ruling the minotaurs below
posted May 21, 2004 04:19 PM

well if you are going to get 2 FD's per week you need to redo the price/cost of it. 2 per week is just insane price-wise. It would cost 20,000g + 16g per week which I would never pay for such a week creature unless I was filthy rich. If you get one per week, I think you need to boost stats just a little. I know if you do it too much, It will be too powerful, but for 10,000g + 8g, it needs to have more than it has now.
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Asmodean
Asmodean


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Heroine at the weekend.
posted May 21, 2004 04:26 PM

Make it 7,000 and 5 gems.
Keep stats as they are.
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ratmonky
ratmonky


Famous Hero
Abu Hur Ibn Rashka
posted May 22, 2004 05:57 PM

the town resource silo should produce gems, I think there should also be a special building like magic university in Conflux where you can learn Artillery, Ballistics and Archery for 2000 (as there are many shooting troops). The building should be called War Academy and cost 5000 gold 5 wood and 5 ore to build. And blacksmith should sell ammo cart and have an upgrade for ballistae (like in Stronghold).
Other ideas for special buildings?
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Dies illa, dies irae,
Calamitatis et miseriae.
Requiem aeternum
Dona eis, dona eis Domine.

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Dingo
Dingo


Responsible
Legendary Hero
God of Dark SPAM
posted May 22, 2004 10:54 PM

Shouldn't this be in the Altar?
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The Above Post/Thread/Idea Is CopyRighted by, The Dingo Corp.

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