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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: Homm4 Spells...
Thread: Homm4 Spells... This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
Oldtimer
Oldtimer


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Supreme Hero
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posted July 20, 2001 12:19 AM

Homm4 Spells...

There are now going to be 5 schools of magic.
Possible spell alignments:

Death: Drain Life
      Weakness
      Implosion
      Pestilence

Choas: Armageddon
      Meteor Shower
      Fire wall

Life: Ressurection
     Heal/Cure

Order: Illusion
      Sheild
      Blind
      Stone Skin

Nature: Lightning Bolt
       Quicksand
       Summon Elemental

Where do you think that your favorite spell belongs and what new spells do you want?
     
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Sha_Men
Sha_Men


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jack-Of-No-Trades
posted July 20, 2001 03:32 AM

Magic the Gathering...

Anyone played this card game...

I find it little bit boring as it is more concentrated into building your card stack than using strategy during game...

But there are lot's of great spells and as HoMM IV uses same kind of system as Magic the Gathering someone could drain tons of new ideas from there. I don't happen to own the game anymore but someone who does would have sure advantage when one comes up with different spells.

In the MtG (Magic the Gathering)
there are some spells that also do damage to spellcaster. I think in also in heroes there could be some powerful spells that could also hurt the spellcaster when spell is casted.

Also there should be spells that could allow targeting multiple targets like chain lightning but spellcaster himself could pickup the targets.

There are lot of other examples that I may post later...

I personally have any sure favorite spells of my own but I would like that the game would be also balanced considering the spells and different magic schools.

In my opinion Town Portal was too powerful spell (There are also others) in HoMM3 and this should be changed.
There should be also artifacts that could increase of effect of certain spells like armageddon's blade little bit is but not as powerful...

I really would like some neat spells to be able to be used when I'm adventuring the map. I think there were far too few in earlier heroes. Some kind of illusion spell would be a must. You could cast it into almost anything and change it's appearance (as Oldtimer suggested).

I earlier mentioned Mist spell that could lay mist to particular area of adventuring map and over terrain and would hide it from the opponent. You could use mist when you run away from enemy in the adventuring map. Also I would love idea of "sanctuary" spell. This spell wouldn't allow opponent attack the hero until hero moves again or spells effect ends. Of course it wouldn't be so powerful as opponent could wait the end of spell and attack then. But it could be annoying and powerful if you would send a hero close to opponent and he would have to stay close so he could attack when you move again. This would bind opponents forces to guard hero until the spells effect fades away. In this case there could be problem with new kind of Hit'n'Run or should we say with Stand'n'Wait tactic.


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UnkaHaakon
UnkaHaakon


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Famous Hero
happily tilting at windmills
posted July 20, 2001 07:18 AM

From what the interviews published thus far have revealed, here is my 2 cents worth ...

Death Magic: said to be all about slowly leaching the life out of your opponent. This is where we're likely to find some version of Death Ripple. I like the idea of a life drain spell, and possibly some version of the ghost dragon's aging ability. Other possibilities include Weakness (which oldtimer mentioned), Blind, Curse, some sort of Fear or Sorrow spell to reduce Morale... in the interview on the AW site, Gus mentioned that Animate Dead will raise any dead stack on the field, making this very powerful indeed, even if it only raises skeletons or zombies.

Life Magic: This is where we'll find Resurrection, and Bless and Cure. Wouldn't be surprised to see Prayer make a comeback, as it is a wonderful spell and would fit in well with this school of magic.

Chaos Magic: said to be all about doing lots of direct damage. I think this is where the heavy hitting spells come in, like Armageddon, Lightning bolt/Chain lightning, and Implosion. One thing that should be noted: word is spells will not be quite as damaging in Heroes4. Still, this school is where the Hit and Run specialists will probably come out.

Order Magic: said to be able to charm their opponents into fighting for them. Does this mean we'll actually see a version of Hypnotize that's worth a rat's caboose? Berserker fits into this scheme as well. Also, I'd expect Visions to make an appearance here. I also think some form of Bloodlust might make the cut in this school.

Nature Magic: Summon Elemental tops my guess for this school. I also think that the mobility spells like Town Portal, Fly, and Dimension Door fit in here. There may even be lower level summoning spells that bring other creatures besides elementals to your side during battle. This may also be where we find Teleport, Frost Ring, and Stoneskin.

One note on the new Stronghold: The information released so far says the Blacksmith there will be able to build additional war machines. Does this mean something beyond the current catapult, ballista, ammo cart, and first aid tent? If so, what? Perhaps we'll finally be able to buy a trebuchet and lob huge rocks onto the enemy. Or, since Sha_men mentione MTG..maybe a version of the Orcish Artillery to hurl suicide troops over the walls? :-)

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Thunder
Thunder


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Famous Hero
posted July 21, 2001 08:07 PM

MtG!!!!

Whirlwind: damages all flying creatures
Wrath of God: guess what this does
Control Magic: gain control of the opponent creatures
Spirit Link: Creature stack who deals damage will gain a life to the owner
Sandstorm: ???

....wait picking up my cards:

Creeping Mold, Umbilicus (artifact), Flash, Impulse, Reviving Vapors, Hull Breach, Memory Lapse, Arc Lightning, Fireblast, Bottomless Pit, Pulverize......

And some creatures now: Lord of the Pit, Spike Feeder, Spike Weaver, Palinchron, Wall of Glare, Ticking Gnomes, Tek, Soul Warden, Reckless Embermage, Aladdin, Shivan Hellkite, Plague Spitter, Raven Familiar, Blind Seer, Haunted Angel, Elvish Lyrist, Rooting Kavu, Harvest Wurm....

It would be cool if Heroes could be able to counter opposition spells. Like:

Player A waits with his hero`s spellcasting. Player B casts a Lightning Bolt, Player A counters Lightning Bolt with Counterspell. Next round: Player A casts a haste. Player B casts a Armageddon (Player A cant counter that spell(already casted a spell this round)

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Sha_Men
Sha_Men


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jack-Of-No-Trades
posted July 21, 2001 09:59 PM

Death...

Could you please goto some other thread.
If you have something to say about spells like new ideas or stuff.
Just say them.
But otherwise could you please not to post something unrelated. Tavern is for that. Otherwise thread is going to be big mess and you could be blamed of spamming. (I could report this to moderator).

About spells...

Very good Thunder.
However I would have liked that you could have give idea how to put and change them into heroes. I mean Lord of the Pit (If remember right) is a demon who has good combat stats and also is flying with trample. Specialty was something like that you had to sacrifice creature so it wouldn't take damage to you.

Should there be a spell like elemental spell that would summon demon that could be controlled? It would need certain amount of mana each turn and there would be slight chance that you could lose the control of it in the beginning of the turn. It could change into neutral and attack both the opponents forces and hero's forces that created it.

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Thunder
Thunder


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Famous Hero
posted July 21, 2001 10:27 PM

They were just examples :D

Lord of the Pit could be real cool spell

But most of the creatures I included was just examples.
How about Summon Shard Phoenix? It could have and ability of sacrificing it itself and dealing x damage to all creatures in battlefield. (X=Spell Power*number of phoenixes.) And for the Pit Lord, howabout sacrificing creatures worth of 100 hp or it deals damage or drains lots of mana to/from your hero.

Oh and for that Apprentice. Its online game for magic the gathering. You (and Sha_Men ) can download it from www.dragonstudios.com

Of course, I`m ready to take duel in Apprentice with anyone just tell your IP and wait for opponent. (If u want dead we can start a game right away )




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Sha_Men
Sha_Men


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jack-Of-No-Trades
posted July 21, 2001 10:35 PM

Yes...

Come up with suggestions.
We really need an expert of MtG here to give some good advices concerning spells of it that we could get some new ideas for HoMM spells.

And yes, Lord of the Pit (or summon demon) could work like that.

I'm downloading Apprentice right now and I try it later. I'm pretty rusty with MtG because I have only played recently against computer in the old computergame.
But maybe we could put a game up later on.
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Thunder
Thunder


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Famous Hero
posted July 21, 2001 10:42 PM

God darn! Triple post! Now I`m banned. Darn that lag!

Expert of MtG. You have one right here (öhöm.. me!)
There`s no judge in apprentice, so both of players (or atleast one of them should know rules!
Sha_Men maybe you would want to play against me tomorrow?

Oh and if this is a spell topic; add Force of Nature (summon, pay mana each turn or prepare to become slammed!) too or Giant Growth (making creature it targets huge!) and
some battle spells that adds mana(spell points) to hero like dark ritual.
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titan
titan


Known Hero
posted July 21, 2001 10:53 PM

3do should put a spell in that resurrect dead dragons into bone or ghost dragons
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Oldtimer
Oldtimer


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Supreme Hero
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posted July 22, 2001 01:06 AM
Edited By: Oldtimer on 10 Aug 2001

If you work in death magic I think that a necromancer should be able to raise dead units on the battlefeild to become skelletons or zombies, death knights etc.

BTW if you are thinking magiccard spells disreguard all summon type spells for they are the same as HOMM creatures in a town.

Death spells:
Fear, target unable to attack similiar to paralyze.

Black plague, target creature looses hit points each round, will spread plague to adjacent creatures if next to target for two rounds.

Enfeeblement, target creatures get -2 attack/-2 defence

Life leech, target creatures looses hps and casting hero gets them.

Stench of decay, all non dead creatures cannot attack 1 turn(because they're vomiting)

<all these spells are mere speculation by me>
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malkia
malkia


Promising
Famous Hero
posted August 10, 2001 08:40 AM

Quote:
Stench of decay, all non dead creatures cannot attack 1 turn(because they're vomiting)


LOL!

Gold Golems will be vomiting gold - this way helping you increase your money situation
Diamond Golems - you know - diamonds...

Dragons will vomit tryglodytes (which they eat for breakfast) - and this way - you got more army online.

Hydras will vomit poisonously and thus damaging more near or far creatures (all of them - cause hydra is the vomit champion).

I'll vomit, and not play anymore - thus making the enemy player winner (if he is a gold golem - he'll make money the same time).
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Oldtimer
Oldtimer


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posted August 10, 2001 10:54 PM
Edited By: Oldtimer on 10 Aug 2001

Lets continue this thread with some more info on magic schools.

Death Magic-> Occultism, Demonology, Necromancy
    I guess you can summon demons as well as study the dark arts.

Chaos Magic-> Conjuration, Pyromancy, Sorcery
    Pyromaniacs get direct damage spells, What will he conjure?

Nature Magic-> Herbalism, Meditation, Summoning
    If you attack this guy he can keep bringing troops to the fight.

Life Magic-> Healing, Spirituallity, Resurrection
    Now you kill me, now you don't.

Order Magic-> Enchantment, Wizardry, Charm
    I hope your troops are loyal because this guy a dynamic speaker.

What spells do you think will fit into these schools?

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niteshade
niteshade


Known Hero
posted August 11, 2001 01:01 AM

What I'm curious about is if these skills are related to specific spells, or if they give other bonuses. For example, healing could be like first aid, and necromancy might be an ability like H2 and H3. Also they said that each side had a certain automatic powers they used, like life ressurecting units after a battle, and order charming units onto his side before the battle starts. So some of these skills may relate to things like this.

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niteshade
niteshade


Known Hero
posted August 11, 2001 08:21 AM

Giving it some more thought, I can make some good guesses on what some of these do, and some not so good ones on some others.

Death Magic-> Occultism, Demonology, Necromancy

We know that the necropolis can raise undead after the battle, like they did in H3, so it's a good bet this is what necromancy is for. The others are tougher. Occultism sounds like a passive magic boosting skill (ie sorcery, mysticism, inteligence). Demonology is harder, I doubt it summonds demons on it's own (because before battle summoning is supposed to be nature's ability) but perhaps it somehow boosts the power of devils or something.

Chaos Magic-> Conjuration, Pyromancy, Sorcery

We know chaos doesn't get any special automatic abilities like necromancy, resurrection, summoning, and charm. We also know chaos mages are supposed to have more spell points to make up for it. Probably one of these skills gives those extra spell points. At least one of the others probably boosts spell damage much like the old sorcery skill.

Nature Magic-> Herbalism, Meditation, Summoning

We know nature can summon troops at the beginning of a fight to help out for the battle, presumably summoning is how you do that. Herbalism sounds like first aid (hope it's alot better then first aid was though), and scarily enough meditation sounds alot like mysticism. If nature is stuck with those two skills let us hope they are much stronger then before.

Life Magic-> Healing, Spirituallity, Resurrection

We know life can automaticaly ressurect troops after a battle, so that must be the ressurection skill. Healing could be like first aid also, and spirituality could be a passive booster like inteligence or it could do something else unexpected.

Order Magic-> Enchantment, Wizardry, Charm

We know order can charm troops before combat, so that must be what charm is for. Enchantment probably boosts all enchantment spells (ie haste, stoneskin) somehow. Wizardry is probably a skill along the lines of sorcery or inteligence (or god forbid, eagle eye)


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UnkaHaakon
UnkaHaakon


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Famous Hero
happily tilting at windmills
posted August 11, 2001 08:41 AM

Quote:
Wizardry is probably a skill along the lines of sorcery or inteligence (or god forbid, eagle eye)



Actually, if it's like eagle eye and lets you learn spells from other classes of magic, it might not be that bad a thing to have now. It might be the only way for the Academy to learn those heavy hitting Chaos spells, provided you survive the fight.
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niteshade
niteshade


Known Hero
posted August 11, 2001 08:19 PM

Good point, and that reminds me why I didn't think eagle eye would come back for H4. You can't cast chaos spells at all without the chaos magic skill, and same with the other schools of magic. So that means for eagle eye to work you'd need to be fighting somebody using the exact same type of magic you are, which would make it even more useless then before.

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Oldtimer
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posted August 11, 2001 11:34 PM

Looking at the sub skills of the magic;

I'm thinking that every school has a skill to enhance power: Healing, Enchantment, Demonology, Pyromancy & Herbalism.

A skill to enhance spell points: Spirituallity, Wizardry, Occultism, Sorcery & Meditation.

And a skill to get creatures: Resurrection, Charm, Necromancy, Conjuration & Summoning.

It seems symetrical and logical and each skill can be different enough to add to the town's flavor while being balanced.

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niteshade
niteshade


Known Hero
posted August 12, 2001 06:05 AM

Well I think it's a bit more complicated then that. First off we know that chaos does not have a skill that gets them creatures (one of the previews said that). And they are supposed to be the only ones that get extra spell points (to make up for this).

I would guess that except for chaos they all have....

1 skill that gets creatures in some way, either ressurecting your fallen, or summoning them or animating them or charming them

1 skill that gives them some kind of magical bonus, but it will probably be  more complicated then just giving them spell points.

1 skills that is miscelaneous and different for each school.

These are all just guesses though. The only thing we know for a fact is that everyone but chaos gets a "get creatures" based skill, and that chaos does not but somehow gets extra spell points.

It's also worth noting that we don't even know how spell points will work. There isn't a knowledge stat anymore.

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Oldtimer
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posted August 12, 2001 07:43 AM

Its possible ( maybe probable) that conjuration does not conjure creatures, but it might have same type of creature enhancing affect.  Pyromancy has to be direct damage spell enhancement so Sorcery might have to do with the amount of spells you can cast.

My theory is that with each level of magic mastery you can cast x number of spells and with each level of Spell point(for lack of a better term) enhancement you will be able to cast multiply  by y  the number of spells.  For example if you have expert magic you get 3x you multiply that to advanced spell point 2y and you get 3x(2y) number of spells to cast.  It is possible that a first level spell will cost 1/3rd of a 3rd level or 1/5th of a 5th level spell, so you can cast 5 first level spells for the same cost of 1 fifth level spell etc.

This would make the spell point enhancements very desireable, esspecially if they multiply the amount of spells you can cast. If expert magic allows you to cast 15(3x assuming x=5) base 1 spells and you have expert spell point enhancement you will be able to cast 45 (3 times 15)base 1 spells before you must revisit a well or mage guild.


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niteshade
niteshade


Known Hero
posted August 12, 2001 07:56 AM

Hmm.....could be. Sounds a little like heroes 1 there. Either way I suspect the number of spell points will be alot lower in H3 because primary skills only go up to 5.

Pyromancy could do something not completely related to spells, like giving your hero a ranged fireball attack. Or it could make your spells have an area of effect, or do something else. Who knows really, but fun to speculate.

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