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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: The list of creatures that I wanted to be returned in Heroes 4
Thread: The list of creatures that I wanted to be returned in Heroes 4 This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
lichie_lich
lichie_lich


Hired Hero
posted August 13, 2001 06:48 AM

The list of creatures that I wanted to be returned in Heroes 4

Okay, this is the list of creatures that a "must have" in the Heroes series:

1. Imps
2. Harpies
3. Wyverns
4. Vampires
5. Serpent Flies(because it has always been in every new M&M series: M&M 6+7, Heroes3, and even the crappy Legends of MM!)
6. And of course, Griffins!

All these creatures are to be considered as unique, complete eith special abilities. Since NWC removed a vast number of creatures due to the similarities, they shouldn't remove these creatures because they're all different to other creatures.

So, do you guys agree with this?

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Starfox
Starfox

Tavern Dweller
posted August 13, 2001 01:14 PM

Honestly I think the imps suck. Even graphically, they have baby arms and they jump.. hmm.. not very scary

Serpent flies have never been among my favorites. When they attack (or are hit) they even stick their tongues out. Doh!

Griphons are not bad and of course, vampires are awesome! We want/need the vampire lords!

I dont know how mention it, but I also think that they'll be back. Because vampires are bad guys, and you always need bad guys to fight. If they dont put them in Heroes 4, they'll prolly put them back in a future "extension".
____________

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Wyvern
Wyvern


Promising
Famous Hero
posted August 13, 2001 02:34 PM

But of course! Heroes 4 - Wyverns = boring game. I opened a thread "Wyverns - must be in HoMM4!" and I think that a lot of people think so. I don't know what think the designers, though...

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Cheesus
Cheesus


Known Hero
The Untouchable
posted August 13, 2001 02:51 PM

Quote:
Okay, this is the list of creatures that a "must have" in the Heroes series:

1. Imps
2. Harpies
3. Wyverns
4. Vampires
5. Serpent Flies(because it has always been in every new M&M series: M&M 6+7, Heroes3, and even the crappy Legends of MM!)
6. And of course, Griffins!

All these creatures are to be considered as unique, complete eith special abilities. Since NWC removed a vast number of creatures due to the similarities, they shouldn't remove these creatures because they're all different to other creatures.

So, do you guys agree with this?


1. No
2. No
3. NO
4. Yes
5. Yes
6. No
____________
Win or lose, it doesn't matter. The way it happens is what is important

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UnkaHaakon
UnkaHaakon


Responsible
Famous Hero
happily tilting at windmills
posted August 14, 2001 09:21 AM
Edited By: UnkaHaakon on 14 Aug 2001

Ok, since you asked: my opinions

1. Imps : One of the worst 1st level troops, and the upgrade to familiar is not much better. The mana drain special is no real loss in most cases, and the new AI probably will be smart enough to ignore them unless they get close. They fitted in with the Inferno lineup , but since the Inferno is gone, there's no real reason to have them in Heroes 4.

2. Harpies : Harpy Hags were a fun unit, when you could keep enough of them alive. The "no retaliation" special would be very important in Heroes 4. However, since the Sprites in the Preserve are presumably another "no retaliation" low level flyer, I see no real need for the Harpies.

3. Wyverns : One of the mainstays of the Fortress, there's just not enough special about them to have them in Axeoth (Sorry , Wyvern ). They were relatively fast, but not all that strong. About the only Fortress unit I'll really miss are the MGs. I'm hoping they, or something like them, made the trip to Axeoth as a neutral.

4. Vampires : I don't understand how they could leave one of the Necropolis's best units out. I discussed this in another thread at length, so I won't go into it here. Here's hoping they're in as a neutral at least.

5. Serpent Flies: They were great in the Fortress. Able to cross the map in one turn and weaken enemy shooters. But again, no Fortress means very little call for them in Heroes 4. A pity, because they made great troops for scouts.

6. Griffons : Now, here's a real case for keeping a unit for tradition's sake, since Griffons have been in since HOMM I. Not the toughest or fastest of flyers, they were still a good, all around troop, especially considering their cost and their ability to keep retaliating. That ability alone means they'd be treated with respect under the new combat system. Here's hoping they show up as a neutral in Heroes 4.


____________
Some people say the glass is half full..Some people say it's half empty... I say "What're you asking me to drink?"

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Kwisatz-Hade...
Kwisatz-Haderach


Hired Hero
For Paul maud'dib
posted August 14, 2001 09:51 AM

hum....

Imps: suck everybody's got that right
Harpy hags: Good creatures fun ability
Wyverns:Like the best flying fortress so got to be in it
Vampires:Just cool, with their regeneration ability
Serpent flies:the only good thing about them is that  
             they're fast
Griffinsnly the royal griffins cause they have a good  
        ability
____________
You only have control of
something when you have the power to destroy it.

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Zud
Zud


Promising
Famous Hero
box worshipper
posted August 14, 2001 07:20 PM

Looks Like 3DO lost a sale

well, looks like wyvern, incubus and others won't be buyin heroes IV then hehe

Must have this, Must have that......Who Cares!!!!!

Like I said, The fun is not the creatures in the game, but the balance and gameplay resulting from the total package That they develop.

It's going to be a whole new game, more so than the change from King's Bounty to HMM1.  I am more interested in the discussions of what it actually might be!! than a bunch of whining that it must have this or that or I won't buy it. From what I have seem most of you that whine about what it is not gonna have or what it must have don't even play the game. (and if U do there is still time to jump in the community tournament and prove me wrong)

"Steps off soapbox"

Lets try getting excited about what is is and not what is isnt or doesnt have.
____________
Winner or Whiner?

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MightyMage
MightyMage


Honorable
Legendary Hero
of INSANITY and DELICIOUSNESS
posted August 14, 2001 07:57 PM

I can agree with just about everybody here.  Wyverns were  good for fotress towns becaus they fit in and because of their poisening ability.  They were good but not great so it's nothing to cry about.  As for Griffins, They were somthing.  This is a mythical game, so griffins were perfect. I especially love the retaliation thing.  And Zud, having dfferent monsters and stuff is what the game is all about.  If they wern't there than what would you do?  It would be dumb.  So to wrap it up.  some creatures need to be kept but some it doesn't really matter, especially if their town is gone.

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Zud
Zud


Promising
Famous Hero
box worshipper
posted August 14, 2001 08:21 PM

I may not have phrased it correctly

yes creatures make the game very fun (I mean basically it is a strategic wargame with mythical creatures) and I am not a big wargamer, I got into heroes from RPG's and fell in love, actually It is the creatures and different artifacts in the games that I really like.

But the point I was trying to make is no single creatures, be it wyverns, imps, crusaders, devils ect. being in or out of the game is going to effect many people from buying the game.

The BALANCE of the creatures, castles, heroes and magic is the KEY to this game. Not a few creatures being added, or staying.  We all love the replayability that makes us want to stay up day in and day out playing this game over and over again.

Sure I will miss many creatures from HMM3; the Mighty Moo's from the fortress (wyvern not so much, he kinda was weak compared to other lvl 6 even if you could have 2 of em on day 1) Vampires also will be missed (Not another creature can clear a utopia week 2 or 3 like a pack of lords and animate)

But there is so many new things, lets talk about the positives and new strategies. Like the command radius thread, or the fact that your own creatures without a hero can defect to your opponents side with diplomacy and so many other things that I dont know about yet.
____________
Winner or Whiner?

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Lupin
Lupin


Known Hero
who eats Titans for Lunch
posted August 15, 2001 07:31 AM

Hey Incubus, I'm surprised that you didn't say a word about the Manticores.  But because you didn't, I will.  The also must be in the game!!  They fly, can paralize, and are just all around good.  Just thought that I would add to your list.
____________
The Druid among dragons.

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Smiley
Smiley


Adventuring Hero
King of All Smileys
posted August 15, 2001 07:52 AM

quote:
------------------------------------------------------------Hey Incubus, I'm surprised that you didn't say a word about the Manticores. But because you didn't, I will. The also must be in the game!! They fly, can paralize, and are just all around good. Just thought that I would add to your list.
------------------------------------------------------------

Not really, azure dragon can kill all. last time i play HOMM3 and 2 azure dragons join me , they can kill 1 black dragon in 1 turn!!!!

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Wyvern
Wyvern


Promising
Famous Hero
posted August 15, 2001 11:46 AM

So many people talk about vampires... maybe I should say something, too. I think that the vampires were too strong for level 4 unit and I hated to fight against them. But I decided to discover which level 4 unit is best against them. Do you know which? It's not the crusader, although he's a serious opponent. The most effective level 4 unit against the vampire is... the Energy Elemental! Yes, it is a bit weak but it's excellent to fight against vampires. You know that whan the vampire hits another unit, he drains life from it and eventually restores it's health and if lost any vampires from the stack, he can restore them. But that doesn't work with the Energy Elemental! Maybe because it doesn't have blood, maybe it's a bug. Anyway, you may know this already.
By the way, Zud, don't you think that it's stupid to like creatures only because they are strong? Everyone thinks that the Mighty Gorgons are great but why they underestimate the Wyvern because it's weaker? It brings the atmosphere of the game as well as the Mighty Gorgon. And have you thought that if these two creatures exist in HoMM4, the Gorgon might be made weaker and the Wyvern - stronger than HoMM3? And which of the two would you like then?

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Still
Still


Famous Hero
Your Ultimate Slayer
posted August 15, 2001 09:19 PM

Here's what I want

Bring them back!!!!!

1. Wyvern
2. Ghost Dragon
3. Griffins
4. Enchanters
5. Magic Elementals

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malkia
malkia


Promising
Famous Hero
posted August 15, 2001 09:49 PM

Quote:
So many people talk about vampires... maybe I should say something, too. I think that the vampires were too strong for level 4 unit and I hated to fight against them. But I decided to discover which level 4 unit is best against them. Do you know which? It's not the crusader, although he's a serious opponent. The most effective level 4 unit against the vampire is... the Energy Elemental! Yes, it is a bit weak but it's excellent to fight against vampires. You know that whan the vampire hits another unit, he drains life from it and eventually restores it's health and if lost any vampires from the stack, he can restore them. But that doesn't work with the Energy Elemental! Maybe because it doesn't have blood, maybe it's a bug. Anyway, you may know this already.
By the way, Zud, don't you think that it's stupid to like creatures only because they are strong? Everyone thinks that the Mighty Gorgons are great but why they underestimate the Wyvern because it's weaker? It brings the atmosphere of the game as well as the Mighty Gorgon. And have you thought that if these two creatures exist in HoMM4, the Gorgon might be made weaker and the Wyvern - stronger than HoMM3? And which of the two would you like then?


True... true... really hurts when elemental is ahead - hmm.. Although i think VAMPIRES are not so strong as they used to be in Heroes2. I wish there was a bloody elemental that i can kill ya, even gimme more vampires at the end... Next on my lists are bloody golem, bloody gargoyle....

Why vampires dissapear from HeroesIV? - probably cause of fact that now heroes level 30 or 40 can have life about 2000 or more (bloooody!) - that will ressurect lots of vampires just sucking the poor hero.
____________

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LordPaul
LordPaul


Promising
Famous Hero
Crazy Bat Guy.
posted August 16, 2001 01:30 AM

I want my vam-pi-res.... (sing to "I want my MTV")

Huh, I'm now in the mindset that if a creature is missing, but there is a decent replacement in the new game, then all is good.  

Still, Vampires and Gryphons are more than just creatures.  They're a tradition.  People love them, and they have unique charactoristics.  Leaving them out would hurt the game.  Heck, they kept peasents in for 'tradition' sake!

There is still one slot left empty in the Haven, so maybe the Griffins did make it.  Ya think?


____________

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Lichie_lich
Lichie_lich


Hired Hero
posted August 16, 2001 03:24 AM

Since each town now have their own magic schools, why can't they also summon some creatures affiliated to the magic schools, not only the elementals?

In Disciples, the Empire can use the spells to summon living armor and golem, the Legion o' the Damned can summon cerberus, the undead horde can summon evil ent and skeleton warrior, and the Mountain clan can summon valkyries. Why don't NWC try this method to add some more creatures?

Okay, reffering to the Diciples Method, I got these ideas:

Haven will now have the spell "summon cherub"(level 1 spell) and "summon griffins" (level 3 spell)
Necropolis will now have the spell "summon "imp"(which now have the ability to "shock" creatures)(level 1 spell and "summon vampires" (level 4 spell)
Asylum will now have the spell "summon harpy"(level 1 spell) and "summon wyvern" (level 4 spell)
Preserve will now have the spell "summon gnolls"(level 1 spell) and "summon pegasus"(level 4 spell)
Academy will now have the spell "summon gremlins(which deal 150% damage to golems) and "(level 1 spell) and "summon drake"(level 4 spell)

The number of the summoned creatures depends(of course) on the spell power and they can only live up to 6 turns depending on the level of your "summoning" skill.

You know what? With these ideas we can add a new hero "summoner" and a new skill "summoning"!!!

So, how's my idea? Well, I know I sound greedy by adding too much creatures...but that's the way I like it! Heheheh!!!

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Sha_Men
Sha_Men


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jack-Of-No-Trades
posted August 17, 2001 08:36 AM
Edited By: Sha_Men on 17 Aug 2001

Anti-....

No thank you, not any Anti-creatures here.

Or we could have then
Anti-Dragon (Bone-Dragon?)
Anti-Peasant (Skeleton?)
Anti-Angel (Devil?)

We could then make up Anti-Town where all units are anti-something. Specialties could be then Anti-stoning, Anti-damage (whatever it means) Anti-Healing (ouch!)...

Into the real topic here...
I would say that I kinda think that ballista shouldn't be unit. That's my view. But I would like to see Wyverns (now more powerful), vampires and some others too.
But maybe we see some of them in expansion pack.
LOL maybe 3DO will make expansions based into one creature like "Drinkers of the blood" (Vampires), "Poisoners of the sky" (Wyverns) and so on. That's way we could all buy our favorite creatures and we could let those we don't like to the shelf! I think I post this idea for 3DO. But sure they have probably thought that already.

____________
Catch the vigorous horse of your mind.

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BoogieMan
BoogieMan


Famous Hero
The John of Spades
posted August 17, 2001 10:23 AM

    I for one am reliefed that I'm not gonna see those petty wyverns anymore. Not only were they week, but damn ugly too!
    I would have liked Gorgons and Dendroids to appear in H4 again. And not to mention the griffins. It won't be the same without'em.
____________
The BoogieMan wrote ... and saw that it was good.

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UnkaHaakon
UnkaHaakon


Responsible
Famous Hero
happily tilting at windmills
posted August 18, 2001 05:28 AM

That's an interesting piece of news Incubus, but I don't know. The griffon animation and modeling can't be any tougher than, say, dragons (black and ghost), or thunderbirds, both of which we know are in the game. Harpies can't be that much tougher than angels, sprites, or gargoyles. May I ask the source of this information?
____________
Some people say the glass is half full..Some people say it's half empty... I say "What're you asking me to drink?"

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Xenophanes
Xenophanes


Promising
Famous Hero
Chief Consul to Queen Mutare
posted August 19, 2001 12:06 AM
Edited By: Xenophanes on 19 Aug 2001

WRONG!(partially)

Incubus and UnkaHaakon,
The Harpies, I know, for one, will NOT be left out of Heroes IV. In a screenshot I have, it shows a red diamond on the map guarding some resources or something. On the triangle it says something like "20 Harpies". This means that Harpies will be in the game, but they probably just haven't finished their animation yet. One thing can't be more difficult to animate than another.

The way they animate the creatures is they first create a clay model of the creature. Then, they use a laser to scan every part of it into a computer. They then just have to color it and manipulate the image to make it move.

As for Griffins, I have no idea what will happen to them.

I think Harpies could be neutral.

I hope Azure Dragons will be back for Heroes IV.
____________
<Dragons rule, Titans drool!>

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